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Old 01-28-2013, 06:56 AM   #2686
MentalGuru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
Works better with new bikes, get one and it snows...
Snow...

I dig riding in snow. It helps your flattrackin skills.

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Old 01-28-2013, 06:59 AM   #2687
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Originally Posted by Krono View Post
This sounds a good idea to me, since this one is mostly about racks and bars.
It could be a "tech-tread" about engine, from intake to exhaust, electrical, and so on ..

L

Sounds good we just need spud to get on borad to cover the rest...

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Old 01-28-2013, 07:04 AM   #2688
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Originally Posted by ramz View Post
That's the DLC. You can connect the HDS pocket tester to the port and read out diagnostic codes. Chapter 4 in the Service Manual describes the procedure (37 pages).

The DLC port is shown at the bottom of the wiring diagram.

Now thats a chapter I want to see...

Wiring diagrams would be great too if they aren't in it.

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Old 01-28-2013, 07:10 AM   #2689
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Originally Posted by Ed@Ford View Post
Putting a cam sensor on a single cylinder 4 stroke is unnecessary. It's extremely common to have a spark on BOTH upstrokes of the piston...one lights the mixture on the compression stroke, and the other just sparks on the exhaust stroke....the common description for this is "throw-away-spark".....so don't bother to look for a CMP on this engine

One thing I WOULD like to understand is how the second exhaust gas oxygen sensor is used on this engine....RamZ describes it in Honda literature....but I still don't understand the "whys".....and it better be a good explanation...oxygen sensors are not inexpensive....their value is in $$ not cents.

I would expect it to have a waste spark system with or without a cam sensor.

The reason a cam sensor would be used is then the fuel injector can be timed to only spray on the intake stroke. It can be done without a cam sensor but the programing is pretty intense.

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Old 01-28-2013, 07:14 AM   #2690
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Originally Posted by SAPB View Post
Oops, page 18, HDS. Looks like you can get one from Helm, $2704, in stock!

Hey Spud, now that's something I could use.

Hook me up with a bike and one of those and I'll answer any questions anyone has...

So have I taken up a page yet....

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:08 AM   #2691
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Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
The MAP Manafold Absolute Pressure would be the same as a barometric sensor, no?
And I think all FI bikes have an intake air temp sensor.

As far as two oxy sensors go, cars use the 2nd one (post cat) to measure that the cat is working, a requirement on cars....

Is Honda getting the systems like cars?
In some ways it would be great, as those are wide band systems, from idle to full throttle, unlike the 'just where the EPA measures' systems on most bikes.,
My TU only looks at the oxy sensor under mid throttle and mid rpm's, it does not look at it at idle, at full throttle, , or low or high rpm's, and my bike does not spend a lot of time in the oxy sensor zone!

A wideband system would allow changes without needing to program anything, like cars, the system would just adjust for any changes, but with a 2nd oxy sensor, you could not remove the cat or change the exhaust without setting a code.
I know on vehicles with aftermarket exhaust, they have produts to fool the computer that the o2 sensor is still there. probably not enough of a demand for bikes yet, but they may interchange considering an o2 sensor has no idea whether its a car or bike
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:13 AM   #2692
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Pgm-fi

Honda's PGM-FI doesn't use OBD codes like the car world like you would expect, but a more Honda style. You can pull codes if needed through the RED DLC plug on the bike, by jumping the Brown and Green wires together or purchase Honda special tool "SCS connector". Make the connection and then turn the main switch on and count the MIL blinks.

The flywheel has notched or raised sections on the flywheel to determine crank position and thus injector or ignition timing.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:31 AM   #2693
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Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post
Thanks

I'm used to using the standardized automotive abbreviations. So keep that in mind.

They must be using the MAP sensor to read Barometric pressure at key on then. This would be how the PCM checks altitude.

I figured it would have the IAT sensor = Intake Air Temperature sensor. Thanks.

I have a link to the Honda parts catalog which is one of the things I needed.

What I would really like to see is the wiring diagram. Pictures are always nice too, I have a few collected.


The lack of the cam sensor and 1 wire narrow band O2 sensor shows me it is a early basically an early type automotive system. That means the PCM is most likly a PROM type instead of a EEPROM type.

This type of system doesn't do to much OBD so it is easier to trick it as needed. This also makes diagnoising and testing easier for the average backyard tech.

From what I'm reading this system is like the old first efi system on ford f series pickups. No map just a sensor for speed density. Based off the o2, and speed/rpms. This system sucked. Very dependent on throttle body cleanliness. When the butterfly plate got dirty the system would rev up everytime you pushed in the clutch. It didnt take long for it to get dirty either. It did fuel good though, and the rev up didnt cause any driveability problems though. There were alot of guys doing a swap to newer map systems from newer trucks. It was very hard to program a new ecu override to add more power. It was done, but very expensive. Thus the swap that people were doing. To be clear, the system I speak of also had an iats and tps. This was obd1. I believe that your verbiage of sensor acronyms applys to or should apply to both bike and car.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:34 AM   #2694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
The MAP Manafold Absolute Pressure would be the same as a barometric sensor, no?
And I think all FI bikes have an intake air temp sensor.

As far as two oxy sensors go, cars use the 2nd one (post cat) to measure that the cat is working, a requirement on cars....

Is Honda getting the systems like cars?
In some ways it would be great, as those are wide band systems, from idle to full throttle, unlike the 'just where the EPA measures' systems on most bikes.,
My TU only looks at the oxy sensor under mid throttle and mid rpm's, it does not look at it at idle, at full throttle, , or low or high rpm's, and my bike does not spend a lot of time in the oxy sensor zone!

A wideband system would allow changes without needing to program anything, like cars, the system would just adjust for any changes, but with a 2nd oxy sensor, you could not remove the cat or change the exhaust without setting a code.
As part of what I wrote to mental above, the bikes will contain the same stuff as the cars but are dependent on open or closed loop. The parts may be smaller and values different, but essentially the same parts.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:37 AM   #2695
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Originally Posted by hrcs90 View Post
Honda's PGM-FI doesn't use OBD codes like the car world like you would expect, but a more Honda style. You can pull codes if needed through the RED DLC plug on the bike, by jumping the Brown and Green wires together or purchase Honda special tool "SCS connector". Make the connection and then turn the main switch on and count the MIL blinks.

The flywheel has notched or raised sections on the flywheel to determine crank position and thus injector or ignition timing.
This confirms my suspicion of obd1 type system. Thats how you got codes off of them. Call them obd or not its the same principle.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:44 AM   #2696
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Here is a small discussion on what the HRC race ecu does. I believe we might be able to open source tune this bike :) I'm assuming some of you smarter people can hack this ECU?

http://www.cbr250.net/forum/cbr250-p...table-ecu.html
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:55 AM   #2697
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[QUOTE=MentalGuru;20589994
I'm willing to help as needed and answer any questions. . I can get kinda out there at times, just nicely point it out so I don't go on a rant. I've been hit in the head a few too many times and would like to get the knowledge/info out well I still can. I also have a brain tumor and other heath issues so please keep this in mind.QUOTE]

I'm sorry to hear that. Its nice that you said that, cause to be honest I thought you seemed a little easily provoked in past posts. I didnt judge you though cause I figured you had your reasons. Not the same problems as you but I know what you mean by, " You just have to put up with me" I get aggrivated pretty easily. I have spinal stenosis, 5 bulged discs and nerve damage. I'm in pain all the time and sometimes I just cant/dont want to deal with any crap. GOD bless you and I'll pray for you.
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toddol1971 screwed with this post 01-28-2013 at 10:10 AM
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:58 AM   #2698
toddol1971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itrack View Post
Here is a small discussion on what the HRC race ecu does. I believe we might be able to open source tune this bike :) I'm assuming some of you smarter people can hack this ECU?

http://www.cbr250.net/forum/cbr250-p...table-ecu.html
wouldnt it just be easier, or at least about the same amount of money in the end to just put a bigger jug on it, or overbore to get the added power. You know nrfd. You get more gain for the same money.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:06 AM   #2699
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Originally Posted by MentalGuru View Post

So have I taken up a page yet....

I know your post count is set to 100 so look on page 26. Not one post from you. Your just trying to catch up.

Whats sad is that I'm posting on a forum for a bike I dont even have and dont know if I would buy The reason for this is I have nmd (no money disorder)
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:58 AM   #2700
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Originally Posted by toddol1971 View Post
I know your post count is set to 100 so look on page 26. Not one post from you. Your just trying to catch up.

Whats sad is that I'm posting on a forum for a bike I dont even have and dont know if I would buy The reason for this is I have nmd (no money disorder)

I was given a 2 week "vacation"... Thats why...

If you don't want me to post let me know. I have no problem helping people out or sayin screw ya all!!!

It's your choice...

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