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Old 01-27-2013, 08:41 PM   #16
larryboy
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Originally Posted by BCKRider View Post
What I did (still not sure if this was the best maneuver) was to point my bike to the right hand edge of my lane then get hard on the brakes.

I rarely brake for things, it keeps me in the danger zone longer, if I maintain speed and manuever I seem to do best. It may have been better to have kept your speed up, move to the right side of your lane and just let him crash all by himself as you'd be long gone from the point that you guys hit at 5 mph. Just another option, hard to say without being there.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
I rarely brake for things, it keeps me in the danger zone longer, if I maintain speed and manuever I seem to do best. It may have been better to have kept your speed up, move to the right side of your lane and just let him crash all by himself as you'd be long gone from the point that you guys hit at 5 mph. Just another option, hard to say without being there.
Can we talk about this some. My default response is to brake, primarily because it decreases energy that would be going into my body if I don't avoid whatever accident is coming. What do you mean by it keeping you in the danger zone longer?
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by duck View Post
The "chain of events" in this case was another rider coming the other way losing control and crashing into the OP. Clearly not the OP's fault and the OP did what he could in the situation but IMO the "chain of events" here was the oncoming rider being a dipshit riding beyond his skill level and putting other people at risk.

The oncoming rider was a perpetrator, not a victim.

It simply amazes that people, even the OP, would ignore the 100% culpability of the oncoming rider in this case.

I wonder if the sentiment would the same if it were:

a) a 16 year old in a WRX

b) a squid on a Gixxer

c) a rube in an F250


But NOOOOO, it wasn't his fault - because he was riding a GS and had good insurance.
Your posts have said it all.

Sue the state because there's sand on the road in winter??? In Wyoming no less.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
i go over hills in the right tire track. That's the only thing i would have done differently
+1.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:40 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
I would have waited until he got his helmet off, then punched the fawker right in the face. He can have the taxi, I'll take the back of the police cruiser.

You did better than I would have, that's for damn sure.
I guess it's totally out of the realm of possibilities, actually inconceivable, that someone of your obvious riding prowess... coupled with hawk like vision, could EVER crash on dirt/sand/whatever on the road. Because, without doubt, you'd see it and react accordingly long before it could become an issue, unlike all the rest of us mere humans whom are sometimes taken by surprise by such events.

I guess you've never heard of the old "wrong place-wrong time" thing, or "shit-happens".

Chris
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
Can we talk about this some. My default response is to brake, primarily because it decreases energy that would be going into my body if I don't avoid whatever accident is coming. What do you mean by it keeping you in the danger zone longer?

If I slow down I'm there longer, it's pretty simple. It's a good way to get rear ended too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER View Post
I guess it's totally out of the realm of possibilities, actually inconceivable, that someone of your obvious riding prowess... coupled with hawk like vision, could EVER crash on dirt/sand/whatever on the road. Because, without doubt, you'd see it and react accordingly long before it could become an issue, unlike all the rest of us mere humans whom are sometimes taken by surprise by such events.

I guess you've never heard of the old "wrong place-wrong time" thing, or "shit-happens".

Chris

The OP didn't do the crashing, he asked what "we" would have done, there is always another way to do something...that's why he asked, duh.


I had a big rig come over the center divider almost right on top of me last summer, I reacted and made it through the debris field with only one chunk of concrete to the foot, looked down at the speedo and I had actually sped up, never touched the brakes...if I had grabbed brakes I would have been run over from behind.

I am that good.

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Old 01-28-2013, 08:47 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
If I slow down I'm there longer, it's pretty simple. It's a good way to get rear ended too.
That's a good point. Is there any further analysis to this? I definitely will not use brakes in an emergency if there's a vehicle on my ass. In fact I will often split and slow down so the guy riding me will go past. I would also like to find out what you think about that maneuver? I feel safer in between lanes for sure.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:54 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by shaddix View Post
That's a good point. Is there any further analysis to this? I definitely will not use brakes in an emergency if there's a vehicle on my ass. In fact I will often split and slow down so the guy riding me will go past. I would also like to find out what you think about that maneuver? I feel safer in between lanes for sure.
Further? I think target fixation by both parties had a hand in this accident. I think that if the OP had focused on something besides the soon to crash rider that he could have kept his speed up and avoided the whole thing.


Like split lanes, lane share? Always, it's saved me more than a few times.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:44 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER View Post
I guess it's totally out of the realm of possibilities, actually inconceivable, that someone of your obvious riding prowess... coupled with hawk like vision, could EVER crash on dirt/sand/whatever on the road. Because, without doubt, you'd see it and react accordingly long before it could become an issue, unlike all the rest of us mere humans whom are sometimes taken by surprise by such events.

I guess you've never heard of the old "wrong place-wrong time" thing, or "shit-happens".

Chris
I'd be willing to bet that quite a few other riders rode that very same stretch of road that day under the same traction conditions but somehow manged not to lose the rear end and crash into another vehicle. Why do you suppose that none of them crashed or were "surprised?" (Hint: The offending rider fucked up.)

I make no claims to be the Rossi of the street but if there's even the possibility of questionable traction I learned a LONG time ago to roll it on coming out of a turn but not really start wicking it up until you've almost completed the turn. That way, if you do start to lose traction, your chances (more importantly, MY chances) of being able to deal with it and remain in control are greatly increased.

Blame the road crew, blame the state, blame "surprise." Do anything but blame the rider that caused the accident. I'm surprised nobody's blamed BMW yet.

I wasn't there but it sounds to me as though the OP took the best course of action in this situation. I agree that many times throttle is the "right" escape route but, unless you have a high degree of certainty that it will result in a favorable outcome, you may be adding a lot of kinetic energy to a potential impact.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:33 AM   #25
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I'd be willing to bet that quite a few other riders rode that very same stretch of road that day under the same traction conditions but somehow manged not to lose the rear end and crash into another vehicle. Why do you suppose that none of them crashed or were "surprised?" (Hint: The offending rider fucked up.)

I make no claims to be the Rossi of the street but if there's even the possibility of questionable traction I learned a LONG time ago to roll it on coming out of a turn but not really start wicking it up until you've almost completed the turn. That way, if you do start to lose traction, your chances (more importantly, MY chances) of being able to deal with it and remain in control are greatly increased.

Blame the road crew, blame the state, blame "surprise." Do anything but blame the rider that caused the accident. I'm surprised nobody's blamed BMW yet.

I wasn't there but it sounds to me as though the OP took the best course of action in this situation. I agree that many times throttle is the "right" escape route but, unless you have a high degree of certainty that it will result in a favorable outcome, you may be adding a lot of kinetic energy to a potential impact.
HINT: sometimes it boils down to a matter of a couple of inches one way or the other, that makes the difference between crashing or just riding along oblivious to the fact that there was anything at all on the road surface. Maybe, just maybe, all those other riders you speak of, just missed where the sand was. Why the hell is everyone here so pompous and quick to proclaim that the guy who threw it away was an irresponsible no-good POS scum-bag?
NONE of us were there!!!!! Maybe the other guy WAS the asshole! But, just because he had the misfortune to crash and start the chain of events, I don't think anyone that wasn't there should automatically deem him a scum-bag that deserves to get his face punched in by "Larryboy", or anyone else for that matter. If it had happened to me, I'm sure I WOULD NOT be to happy, but unless the other guy was doing a wheelie standing on the pegs or some such dumb shit, I wouldn't automatically assume that he was being an irresponsible dip-shit until I could (hopefully) examine the situation a bit.
That would be after I stopped yelling & screaming & jumping up & down like a mental case!

Chris
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:38 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by O.C.F.RIDER View Post
That would be after I stopped yelling & screaming & jumping up & down like a mental case!

Chris


AaaaHaaaa...you would have a reaction to being hit head on in your own lane by another motorcycle!!!

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Old 01-28-2013, 11:29 AM   #27
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AaaaHaaaa...you would have a reaction to being hit head on in your own lane by another motorcycle!!!

Who wouldn't?
But, my first reaction wouldn't be to knock the other guy's teeth down his throat. UNLESS, he was doing something obviously STUPID.

Chris
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:30 PM   #28
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sue BMW...there may have been a final drive failure here, no?
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:54 PM   #29
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As the OP I would like to thank you for your replies and also clarify a few things:

1. Both the guy who hit me and myself were well aware of the hazards of thrown up gravel on twisty roads (at any time of year) and the hazard of left over winter sand. We had both ridden about 50 miles of pristinely clean road in opposite directions before he encountered sand in THE ONLY passing lane on this whole highway. So I can forgive him for not even LOOKING for sand in that passing lane - I wouldn't have.
2. We both had a lot of time to look and talk before help in the shape of a cop and a tow truck arrived. Let me assure you that thin coating of sand was very hard to see when we were standing there.
3. The guy who hit me was passing a few motorhomes at a reasonable (except for that sand) rate of speed. Had our positions been reversed, I'm pretty sure I would have closed the throttle when my back tire swung out and lowsided. This guy was a good experienced rider who did everything he could to regain control.
4. I don't think "target fixation" by either of us caused the crash. I aimed to the right and braked hard. He tried to get the bike under control and then braked hard when he got shot into my lane when his back tire hooked up.
5. Perhaps of interest - maybe a half hour after the crash I wondered "did my head hit the pavement?" Sure enough, there was a nice gough in my Schuberth. The helmet saved me from a bad headache if not something much worse.
6. I'm a little surprised that none of you seem to place the blame on the road crew or whoever employed them. If any of you have the computer skills I lack to determine whether there were other accidents at this passing lane of the Bear Tooth Pass road in July 2008, your research posted here would be most welcome.
7. In retrospect, ANYTHING except slightly harder braking (real head on collision) would have been better, in fact made this a "close call." Don't think I can agree with general advice not to brake hard when faced with an unpredictable situation though.

I welcome other opinions. Hopefully we learn through this forum to think through our options before they are there in real life. Well, actually I think we just react and think about it later. But it is entertaining reading and writing on cold winter nights.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:42 AM   #30
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just reading by the face of the details presented...

rider A lost control of the bike with a contributing factor of road debris.
rider B was unable to avoid the resulting collision.

officer not returning a call?
contact the supervisor of the officer. usually by calling the department.
if no result there, run it up the chain till you get results.

officers will often contact the entity responsible for road maintenance in the area where some hazardous debris is. ultimately, its the responsibility of that entity to remove any hazardous debris. that could be state, county, city or even a contracted agency. only way to know would be to contact someone in the public service department, inquire if they are in fact responsible for the area in question... and make them aware, or ask if its been resolved.

granted this occurred in 2008 and this is just for speculation.
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