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Old 01-28-2013, 08:09 AM   #16
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUEMONSTER View Post
How common is it to have oil pump issues?
Very rare...so, don't listen to this old f _ _ t. Also, the OP is filling his engine with the correct amount of oil so, whipping the oil is not the issue.

But, excessive water in engine oil from condensation is a concern. If condensation is the source (and it appears that it is) further investigation is needed or, a change in riding habits.

Now, I'll just go to the garage and repair my 20 year old Maytag Neptune washing machine.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:20 AM   #17
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wario View Post
eggzactly!

But, not to start a "oil" thread - but, a warm engine is a warm engine. I do not believe that the motor knows the difference in temps between when its hot from riding, and hot from idling.

I do believe the key is to get the motor hot - period. If its idling, then it needs to idle until the temp gauge reaches normal operating temperature. Otherwise, you will not bake/cause evaporation of the condensation out of the oil and the muffler/exhaust...

The wet oil needs to exceed 212 F. in order to boil off the condensation. This means a ride of adequate length and the engine oil at 212 F. + for an extended period.

You'll likely get comments regarding idling the engine to operating temperature rather than riding the engine to operating temperature.

Also, I believe the crankcase vent will expel the crankcase gasses and condensation. So, check your crankcase vent for moisture (JVB, I believe the vent terminates in the air box?).
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:16 PM   #18
lkchris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wario View Post
I do not believe that the motor knows the difference in temps between when its hot from riding, and hot from idling.
You should rethink that.

Heat in these motors is directly proportional to fuel burned, and a lot more heat is generated by high rpms than by idling. Especially when the high rpms are associated with trying to drag the bike though the air at high speeds. A period of idling after a high-speed run is likely to cool your motor down.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:39 PM   #19
kellymac530
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Definately start with color. If it looks like coffee with creamer or lighter it is likely water.

Where do you live? What is the weather like lately? Stored indoors or outside? Been riding in rain? Offroad with stream crossings, even if shallow?

I am with JVB that it is likely not a serious engine problem like a cracked block or bad oil pump unless there has been some sort of trauma to the bike like a crash or some crazy over heating issue.

Condensation happen when temperatures change, think of a glass of ice water with sweat on the outside. The cold glass from the cold drink inside pulls water from the warmer air around the glass and it condenses on the glass. The crankcase in vented so there is air in the crankcase. Get the outside air cool enough and shut off a warm engine and it could pull moisture out of the air in the crankcase and condense it inside the cases. Start the bike and the running motor collects that oil and whips it into the oil, frothing it up like whipping cream.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:04 PM   #20
Chip Stevens
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Just a side note. One of the reasons we don't use auto oil in small airplanes and stick to aviation oils is because of the foam inhibitors used in aviation oil. altitude affects foaming. chip
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:28 PM   #21
Wallowa
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Question Red Flag?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUEMONSTER View Post
Anyone have this problem. Warmed the engine up and drained oil. It came out all frothy. Put the new oil in started it up and watched it whip up in the sight window.

R1150GSA 2004
Frothy needs definition and description...what was the color [as mentioned], what % was 'frothy' and then describe "whip up". These descriptors could be signs of differing causes...some serious, some of no concern.

When oil is drained, for grins, mix it vigorously and put as much as you can in glass jar. Let it stand for a few hours and then look for separation in the liquid or solids in the bottom.

Better yet send a sample to Blackstone Lab for analysis.

Oh yes, water does not always 'boil' at 212 degrees; sometimes [altitude] it boils at lower temps. Personally I have never had enough moisture enter an engine from atmospheric sources to create any visual changes in the oil....but then again I live in an arid part of the country. If an engine needs to periodically run to high temps to "burn off water vapor", then the engine is poorly designed...regardless of the style of riding. Just my take and of course I could be wrong.

I am new to boxer motors and do not know if being overfilled will cause frothing due to rods churning up oil. If my engine oil was off color or frothed when I drained it...I would stop right there and send off a sample of oil for analysis.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:45 PM   #22
def
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Stevens View Post
Just a side note. One of the reasons we don't use auto oil in small airplanes and stick to aviation oils is because of the foam inhibitors used in aviation oil. altitude affects foaming. chip


You think your boxer uses too much oil and is cranky at cold start?

Watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

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Old 01-28-2013, 09:18 PM   #23
weeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post


You think your boxer uses too much oil and is cranky at cold start?

Watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

Beware off topic. I couldn't help but comment on the video. As a kid in the 50's and a Navy brat my family logged many air miles in a Super Connie. My father was a flight engineer on a Martin Mars (Hawaii) seaplane based in Alameda, Ca or Hawaii and when we moved it was either by plane or ship. Fun memories.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:07 PM   #24
slartidbartfast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wario View Post
eggzactly!

But, not to start a "oil" thread - but, a warm engine is a warm engine. I do not believe that the motor knows the difference in temps between when its hot from riding, and hot from idling.

I do believe the key is to get the motor hot - period. If its idling, then it needs to idle until the temp gauge reaches normal operating temperature. Otherwise, you will not bake/cause evaporation of the condensation out of the oil and the muffler/exhaust...

Leaving your engine to idle for the sole purpose of warming the oil is inane. Just wait to do that maintenance chore until you have an opportunity for a ride. If it's the dead of winter and you won't be riding until spring then you're better off leaving the bike alone anyway.

Best is to get back from a nice long ride, park the bike on the side-stand until the engine has cooled to the point you can hold your hand on the sump, then put it on the centerstand and drain the oil.
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slartidbartfast screwed with this post 01-29-2013 at 08:28 PM
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:39 AM   #25
Garba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
Then the question is, where is all that water coming from?
Water could get past a badly seated round head gasket.Had it once on my R11..
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:43 AM   #26
tagesk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
A period of idling after a high-speed run is likely to cool your motor down.

Sir,
The air-cooled 1150 will overheat, fry the HES up front, and be dead if left to idle with no airflow over the heads of through the oil cooler.

[TaSK]
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:05 AM   #27
Dan-M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Generally multiple short trips where condensation doesn't have a chance to burn off. This is why you should do one trip a week of at least half an hour.

Jim

This is it in a nutshell. Have seen it many times on short trip vehicles.

No laboratories needed.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:23 PM   #28
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Foam=water. Have you done any water crossings?
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:57 PM   #29
scooteraug02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post


Now, I'll just go to the garage and repair my 20 year old Maytag Neptune washing machine.
Put it in the trash, especially if you have black mold around the seal.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:07 PM   #30
tvpierce
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As I understand it, the accepted best practice is to drain oil hot -- while contaminates are suspended in the fluid. That way most of the contaminates are expelled with the oil.

To wait for particulate to settle out of oil you're about to drain seems misguided.
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