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Old 01-26-2013, 06:28 AM   #31
Bluethumb
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Not to muddy this up even more, but....

Corvette forum ( same concerns, oil w high Zinc ) says Valvoline VR1 Racing does not have the high levels of zinc needed due to the fact that it's street legal oil, cat converters. Goes on to say Valvoline Racing oil, which states on the bottle Not Street Legal, does have the higher levels of zinc.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:27 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluethumb View Post
Not to muddy this up even more, but....

Corvette forum ( same concerns, oil w high Zinc ) says Valvoline VR1 Racing does not have the high levels of zinc needed due to the fact that it's street legal oil, cat converters. Goes on to say Valvoline Racing oil, which states on the bottle Not Street Legal, does have the higher levels of zinc.
Not according to Valvoline who state that all the Valvoline VR1 racing oils contain .13 zinc and .14 potassium, sold in various viscosities from. Straight 30 to 20-50
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:36 AM   #33
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Thank you all for playing our game today.

I decided to go with the old school oil for the old school bike, mineral base Castrol 4T 20W50 SG. Picked up three quarts at Autozone for just under $20 (5.99 each + tax)



TINK
That's what I use and I have never had an oil related issue. I NEVER use synthetics in my airhead. On my hexhead I only use synthetics.

Now, if I can just fine ethanol free gas for the airhead I would be in heaven!
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:34 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by chasbmw View Post
Not according to Valvoline who state that all the Valvoline VR1 racing oils contain .13 zinc and .14 potassium, sold in various viscosities from. Straight 30 to 20-50
ChasBMW, where did you get those figures? A while back I sent an email to Valvoline requesting data on the amount of ZDDP and never heard back.

Is it possible oils are formulated differently for the US market vs European?

I'd love to see some current data on the different oils we're talking about. With all the testing labs that exist its hard for me to believe that this information isn't readily available. I've done numerous web searches and can't find anything current, within the last two -three years.

Reading a post where someone writes that they have xxx,xxx miles using XYZ oil with no issues is not the best info to go on only because for everyone who's has a good story, there's another rider who tells of pitted cam followers using the same oil.

Objective data from a third party sure would make this easier.

For the record, I'm using Brad Penn
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:42 PM   #35
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Right from the Valvoline website:
  1. Which oil has more zinc/ZDDP: VR1 or "Not Street Legal" racing oil?
    Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil contains .13 percent of zinc and .12 percent of phosphorus compared to the Valvoline "Not Street Legal" Racing Oil which contains .14 percent of zinc and .13 percent of phosphorus.
There in the FAQs:

http://www.valvoline.ca/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/76
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:06 PM   #36
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I bought a new gspd in 91'. It now has 142k on it. I have never used nothing but 10W40 valvoline and there has never been a wrench on the motor other than adjusting the valves and re-torching the heads. So is motor oil motor oil???
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:41 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by BMW Kurt View Post
That's what I use and I have never had an oil related issue. I NEVER use synthetics in my airhead. On my hexhead I only use synthetics.

Now, if I can just fine ethanol free gas for the airhead I would be in heaven!

The ethanol problem is perhaps the biggest issue against any 10yr old and older bike. It's too bad it's so inconsistant in the U.S. In Canada, it's consistantly 91 octane with the big 3 suppliers with 0% ethanol.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:59 PM   #38
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ZDDP in Mobil 1 oils.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:54 AM   #39
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After google looking for ZDDP level in the T6 Rotella (I just put in my oilhead BMW) it is @1264 PPM vs the Mobil 1 V-Twin @ 1700 . The Rotella is cheaper in Wally World for $21 gal.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:41 AM   #40
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Somebody mentioned minimum ppm earlier. I don't know who's figures these are or where they are from. It may be nothing more than "sales talk". What's the minimum that one should have and what's the ideal? Is there such a thing.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:36 AM   #41
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I *think* SG should have 1200 PPM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:17 PM   #42
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OK, I've just bought some non-synthetic oil for the airhead GS. I use this oil in my 2 Nortons as well. It is Pennzoil 20W-50 Outdoor small engine & motorcycle oil. API rating is SG,SH,SJ,and SL, and has the Japanese JASO MA rating. States it exceeds warranty requirements for BMW, H-D, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha. It is in a 1 U.S. quart [.946litre] bottel, and is sourced from Sopus Products out of Houston.

As for the ZDDP levels, here's a letter from a Pennzoil rep stating ZDDP levels, from late 2010.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your interest in our products.
You are correct the zinc in the ZDDP package for motor oil additives has been reduced recently to help protect catalytic converters on today's vehicles. Basically any oils prior to the API SM (such as SL, SJ, SH, etc.) will have at least 1000ppm zinc. The Pennzoil oils with an API SM rating will have the reduced zinc content (800-850ppm) while those such as the Pennzoil Outdoor Motorcycle Motor Oil in both SAE 10W-40 and SAE 20W-50 with the API SH will have 1100-1200ppm zinc. Other oils containing higher zinc levels will be any oil with a diesel rating, API CI-4 or CJ-4. The Shell Rotella SAE 15W-40 contains 1100-1200ppm zinc and Pennzoi Racing Motor Oil SAE 25W-50 has 1980ppm zinc.
Sincerely
Product Technical Service, ah

Here is an update from Pennzoil regarding ZDDP: (The italics are mine)

Mr. Peter McLean; As mentioned the API SM rated oils found on the shelves today have the reduced ZDDP content to help protect the catalyst in the catalytic converters.

The additives in these oils are sufficient to protect the metal surfaces found in the majority of flat tappet engines. The biggest concerns are for high compression engines with high pressure springs and those engines with inferior quality or improperly heat treated steels. These engines may suffer excessive wear using the reduced ZDDP oils. This explains why many thousands of motorcycles and automobiles with flat tappet systems have been using the SM rated oils with no adverse affects.

The Pennzoil Motorcycle Motor Oils, diesel rated motor oils and
racing motor oils, since not formulated for use in vehicles with
catalytic converters may continue to contain the higher zinc and
phosphorous levels in their ZDDP packages.
Product Technical Service, ah
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:38 PM   #43
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I think that everyone should use whatever oil they think may be sufficient to work in their engine. Just ensure that you put aside some money for that next engine rebuild.

I have exclusively used Castrol 20/50 SG for all of my Airheads for the past 34 years. I have put many thousands of miles on these bikes, including one with close to 500,000 miles and my current one with over 300,000 miles. Neither of them have had any major engine work. Just change the oil every 3000 miles and the filter every 6000 miles. These engines were well designed from the start to use dyno oil. I don't ride the crap out of them, but do ride them a lot.

But, if you are going to ride the crap out of your bike, and maybe do a lot of performance upgrades, then maybe some other oil will work better for you.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:48 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by DaveBall View Post
I think that everyone should use whatever oil they think may be sufficient to work in their engine. Just ensure that you put aside some money for that next engine rebuild.

I have exclusively used Castrol 20/50 SG for all of my Airheads for the past 34 years. I have put many thousands of miles on these bikes, including one with close to 500,000 miles and my current one with over 300,000 miles. Neither of them have had any major engine work. Just change the oil every 3000 miles and the filter every 6000 miles. These engines were well designed from the start to use dyno oil. I don't ride the crap out of them, but do ride them a lot.

But, if you are going to ride the crap out of your bike, and maybe do a lot of performance upgrades, then maybe some other oil will work better for you.

I'll often buy the equivalent Castrol 20W-50 , to the Pennzoil, all depends on price. Yesterday, the Pennzoil was cheaper.
Interestingly, the Castrol 20W-50 available here in Metro Vancouver is packaged/blended in Canada in a 1 litre container rather than the .946 litre container. It is only API spec SG, not JASO MA.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:52 PM   #45
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Originally posted by Steve G.
I'll often buy the equivalent Castrol 20W-50 , to the Pennzoil, all depends on price. Yesterday, the Pennzoil was cheaper.
Interestingly, the Castrol 20W-50 available here in Metro Vancouver is packaged/blended in Canada in a 1 litre container rather than the .946 litre container. It is only API spec SG, not JASO MA.
Back in my ill spent youth, I remember going to a large packaging plant just south of Vancouver either in Richmond or Delta, with my father. This was back in the mid 60s and I was only about 12-14 at the time. It was an oil packaging plant. They had just finished filling up cans marked Shell, and were just changing over to a new batch of cans marked Texaco. All from the same big bulk container. There were also stacks of cans marked Pennzoil and Quaker State as well as Castrol GTX. The name on the front of the packaging plant was Castrol. So, who really knows what really is in those oil cans.

As to SG Spec. that is just fine for our bikes. It works as it should.
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