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Old 02-02-2013, 09:31 AM   #1741
AltRoute
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboxer View Post
I think the TR650's have a very questionable future now, looks they are up the creek, most definitely without a paddle
One thing is for sure




Don't get me wrong - I love and had a KTM but they are good at two things -

1. Building great bikes

and

2. not building cheap bikes. - lets hope that changes
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:17 AM   #1742
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Obviously just speculation and perhaps wishful thinking, but I interpret the various press releases, interviews etc as saying that Husky will be positioned for volume and price to compete with the Japanese, but still focusing on dirt and SM, and presumably also dual sport. To me this suggests a VW vs Audi type relationship between Husky and KTM branded bikes. And also, singles only thus no Nuda or other pure street bikes.

So whether it continues long term with the "BMW" engine, I would see a bike like the TR650 very much in the lineup, to compete against the DR650, Yam 660 and the KLR, with smaller DS or SM Huskies positioned against the CR250L, DRZ400 etc. And if they reflect KTM values with generally newer tech, including better suspension than the Japanese (but one notch below KTM) so much the better. It actually makes more sense than BMW's approach, whatever that was. Unrelated now to this Husky thread, but I'm also curious what this means for BMWs bike futures, noting the stated emphasis on urban mobility .... sounds like scooters to me, not S1000RR or R1200GS.

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Old 02-02-2013, 11:38 AM   #1743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman View Post
Obviously just speculation and perhaps wishful thinking, but I interpret the various press releases, interviews etc as saying that Husky will be positioned for volume and price to compete with the Japanese, but still focusing on dirt and SM, and presumably also dual sport. To me this suggests a VW vs Audi type relationship between Husky and KTM branded bikes. And also, singles only thus no Nuda or other pure street bikes.

So whether it continues long term with the "BMW" engine, I would see a bike like the TR650 very much in the lineup, to compete against the DR650, Yam 660 and the KLR, with smaller DS or SM Huskies positioned against the CR250L, DRZ400 etc. And if they reflect KTM values with generally newer tech, including better suspension than the Japanese (but one notch below KTM) so much the better. It actually makes more sense than BMW's approach, whatever that was. Unrelated now to this Husky thread, but I'm also curious what this means for BMWs bike futures, noting the stated emphasis on urban mobility .... sounds like scooters to me, not S1000RR or R1200GS.

-dman
As you can see from my sig line I have an old BMW. It wasn't old when I got it - it just won't go away. Other bikes come and go and it just keeps hanging around. Obviously BMW did something I like, so I wasn't fazed by BMW's ownership of Husky or the direction they seemed to be going.

I rather liked the TR models quite alot. One BMW/Husky dealer did wonder how many G650gs they were going to sell when the Terra was so good and lots cheaper.

I don't know, but sometimes it seems like BMW corporate just has its collective heads up its collective asses.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #1744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnyboxer View Post
I think the TR650's have a very questionable future now, looks they are up the creek, most definitely without a paddle
Could be ... but once things settle out and recent Terra/Strada sales figures come in, I believe Pierer may change his tune. The Terra has the potential to make the KLR, DR, XR-L obsolete. It's not there yet but not far off.

If Pierer intends to go racing Motocross ... we'll he may be biting off more than he can chew. He should know this given the LONG struggle KTM have been through to get near the top.

On top of this ... the Japanese have over 2000 dealers in the USA (EACH)
Most offer contingency money to amateur racers and teams. Can KTM afford to compete?

And for all those that follow such things ... Husqvarna have been involved in World Enduro (several championships), ISDE, GNCC, Desert series
for years ... long before BMW purchased Husky.

It will be a long road to be competitive in Moto and Super Cross. That is where the REAL money is. I wish them luck ... but IMHO the "new" Husky should focus on the Terra/Strada for now ... and building a true adventure bike (think mini GS).

Pierer also mentions Super Moto. SM is virtually DEAD as a series in the USA. Perhaps the EU is better? Also ... SM sales have fallen way off. It's a dead end segment, IMHO.
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:59 PM   #1745
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I do not think BMW is going to allow KTM to use that engine and compete with their G650/Sertao version, Loncin made or not, if they have any voice in the matter.
That. (and one can substitute "KTM" with Bajaj or "Pierer" what ever you want to call the new owner of Husky)

And at least equally importantly, BMW for sure as heck is not going to be in the business of parts supplier for a competing company.
The Terra and Strada are, what at least 50%, made of BMW components.
Once those bikes are not in the family anymore, BMW won't be supplying all those components to the new Husky. That's for sure.

Look at what happened to TE630 and XChallenge. Gone in a year or two.

With the new owner of Husky, and most key components of the Terra/Strada coming from BMW, same thing will almost inevitably happen to those bikes.
And that's a pity because the Terra is great bike.

--
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:22 PM   #1746
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Originally Posted by JTucker View Post
Slap the BMW roundel on it and it will be $2k more though.

....
It already has the BMW rounded on many of the steel and plastic moulded parts. Even the battery has BMW on it. The only place the rounded is missing is the side of the tank.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:47 PM   #1747
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
I just do not see that happening. BMW press release states they are going to continue with their 650 bikes as entry points.

I assume the Husky 650 goes with the brand, unless their is some agreement specific to the Terra.

I do not think BMW is going to allow KTM to use that engine and compete with their G650/Sertao version, Loncin made or not, if they have any voice in the matter.
Not sure that KTM really needs the BMW engine, an asian produced 690 duke engine would probably make it go. Cycle World has a few notes on the 2013 690 Duke coming to America @ $8999. Engine has top line technology with a claimed 70hp. (includes slipper clutch) Chrome-moly / aluminum frame / WP suspension/ the full KTM monty. should come in close to 325 lbs -- Yowsa, sign me up !!
Back on subject - more mundane version of this engine - economy of volume - more mundane frame, suspension, components - in other words the Terra might come in close on the price point.

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Old 02-02-2013, 03:52 PM   #1748
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Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
I wouldn't worry to much about that because of the sale, as when you study them you'll see the TRs are about 99% BMW... The paint and the emblems are really the only part Husky added...

Where the decision comes into to play is for BMW to decide which of it's models to keep in production, the TRs, the G 650s or the Sertao? The TRs seem to have generated quite a bit of interest with it's low price, low seat and hopped up motor so maybe one of the other 2 will be history...

But BMW have just cut Husky loose
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Johnnyboxer screwed with this post 02-02-2013 at 04:12 PM
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:57 PM   #1749
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Originally Posted by FlyingFinn View Post

Look at what happened to XChallenge. Gone in a year or two.
That was/is a BMW bike and still has complete BMW parts and technical back up - I've has some warranty goodwill, 5 years after purchase in the last year

It will continue to be supported with parts for 20 years
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:13 PM   #1750
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Originally Posted by itsatdm View Post
A more likely scenario is for BMW to use the new and improved X Husqvarna engine and stuff it into a G650 or Sertao and charge $10,000.

That was a joint BMW/Husky project, we will see who has the design rights to it.
Good call
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #1751
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Originally Posted by Johnnyboxer View Post
I think the TR650's have a very questionable future now, looks they are up the creek, most definitely without a paddle
he he
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:02 PM   #1752
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So much speculation, so many unanswered questions...
On one hand I wanted to say that the way to secure future production of the model is to make sure you buy one now! and so continue the strong demand.
Seems logical- but on the other hand it's hard to imagine BMW allowing the Terra to continue- as-is... Clearly the parts supply bin from BMW is 'limited'...
I just wish someone would ask Pierer straight out what his intentions are for the Terra long term...
Truth is he is probably so focused on the 'Big Picture' that he may not even know or care what happens with the Terra...
Truth is, one motorcycle model does not a 'Brand' make... (Sry bout the Yoda speak)...
In my own case I am trying to save up for a Terra and by the time I get there the answer will most likely be very clear...

One of the more interesting thoughts about this bike is that it may well have 'urged' the Japs to update some very stale models- in this niche....

Oh we'll, I guess I'll just hedge my bets and start following the wr250 thread again....
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:47 PM   #1753
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Lots of conflicting info, but

Several things stand out (rough numbers):

Last year:

BMW sold 1000 fewer bikes than KTM (105k to 104k, iirc)
- KTM knows how to sell at least as well as BMW (I know KTM average price is lower, so BMW sales are higher)
- meaning that the new owners know at least as much as BMW about selling bikes

Husqvarna sold @10k bikes, (iirc) and the new owners state they want to take that to 20k/year, directly taking on the Japanese.

My Terra is 4719, based on VIN, so they made and shipped about 5k units in less than half a year; I hear rumors that Husky sales were up 20+% in last quarter, due mostly to the Terra. I hear that January was even stronger--

IMHO, it makes no sense to discontinue (or fail to secure the supply line for) the best selling product in a business you buy; a bike that can apparently single-handedly get you to 20,000 bikes this year, as long as you can ramp up production. Oh, and is positioned directly to steal sales from out-dated KLRs, DR650s, etc.

I doubt we see the Terra an "orphan", dumped or given back to BMW --- makes no business sense. I that counts in today's market ----

Paul
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:54 PM   #1754
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New Skidplate option coming

Just dropped off my Terra to Ricochet here in Salt Lake for them to prototype a Skidplate for the 650! Looking forward to seeing their solution for all the exposed lines --

http://utahsportcycle.com/index.html

Full disclosure: for giving up my baby for a week, I will get a "smoking' deal" on the prototype.

Paul
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:07 PM   #1755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemermcr View Post
Several things stand out (rough numbers):

Last year:

BMW sold 1000 fewer bikes than KTM (105k to 104k, iirc)
- KTM knows how to sell at least as well as BMW (I know KTM average price is lower, so BMW sales are higher)
- meaning that the new owners know at least as much as BMW about selling bikes

Husqvarna sold @10k bikes, (iirc) and the new owners state they want to take that to 20k/year, directly taking on the Japanese.

My Terra is 4719, based on VIN, so they made and shipped about 5k units in less than half a year; I hear rumors that Husky sales were up 20+% in last quarter, due mostly to the Terra. I hear that January was even stronger--

IMHO, it makes no sense to discontinue (or fail to secure the supply line for) the best selling product in a business you buy; a bike that can apparently single-handedly get you to 20,000 bikes this year, as long as you can ramp up production. Oh, and is positioned directly to steal sales from out-dated KLRs, DR650s, etc.

I doubt we see the Terra an "orphan", dumped or given back to BMW --- makes no business sense. I that counts in today's market ----

Paul

Maybe BMWs U.S. price point on these bikes allows for little profit when compared to their other models... In other words they were put out at a break even price to try to entice potential Japanese model buyers over and even with big sales do little for the bottom line...

I have heard complaints from prospective buyers North of the US border that they are being ripped off... The Canadian dollar has been on par or higher than the US buck and yet these bike are priced much higher {+$2000?} up here...
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