ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-01-2013, 05:41 PM   #61
Chip Stevens
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Yucaipa, Ca
Oddometer: 111
Wallowa. There is always some blow by. One can even hear it when they do a compression check on an aircraft engine. My mechanic rockes the prop back and forth to get as high a reading as he can get. The last check averaged 76lbs with 90 lbs input. The manufacture says it can go down to 60 lbs as long as it is not going past a valve. The point I'm trying to make is blow by is greater then most realize. While I'm pontificating, there are some that feel the loss between the piston and the rings is larger then the rings and the cylinder walls. that would mean seating rings also includes the surfaces between the rings and the piston as well as the rings and the cylinder walls. chip
Chip Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 07:32 PM   #62
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
Yup carbonic acid is indeed nasty stuff that you do not want near any bearings.
Carbonic acid is a weakly buffered acid with a pH of ~6.0.

The acid that does the damage is H2SO4, sulfuric acid, a strong acid with a pH near 3. The H2SO4 comes from the combustion of fuels containing sulfur.

Quality motor oils with current API ratings contain calcium and sodium and other components that have opposing buffer capacity and neutralize the acids. Currently, engines fueled with diesel are mandated to use ULSD for on-road use, reducing the need for high TBN engine oils.

So, even your newer HDEO is lower in TBN than a few years ago. An engine oil with a TBN near 8 or 9 is desirable and has adequate capacity to neutralize acids formed by the combustion of even ultra low sulfur diesel fuel. Gasoline engine have even lower requirements for TBN so using a HDEO in a gasoline fueled piston engine provides increased protection from acid and poor quality fuels.
def is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #63
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Stevens View Post
Wallowa. There is always some blow by. One can even hear it when they do a compression check on an aircraft engine. My mechanic rockes the prop back and forth to get as high a reading as he can get. The last check averaged 76lbs with 90 lbs input. The manufacture says it can go down to 60 lbs as long as it is not going past a valve. The point I'm trying to make is blow by is greater then most realize. While I'm pontificating, there are some that feel the loss between the piston and the rings is larger then the rings and the cylinder walls. that would mean seating rings also includes the surfaces between the rings and the piston as well as the rings and the cylinder walls. chip
You're correct Chip.

Good piston, piston ring and cylinder design work together to provide long lasting service under extreme heat with high friction and gas pressures. The boxer engine uses high quality pistons and rings from Mahle, a world class manufacturer (when next watching NASCAR on SPEED, note the Mahle fender sticker on your favorite car).

Blow-by is inevitable. If the fuel is wet, then you're going to load your engine oil with moisture increasing the potential for the formation of acids. There are many stations that turn over their fuels slowly, maintain their equipment poorly and dispense wet fuel unknowingly, I fuel only at high volume stations that I trust. If you're travelling, truck stops typically have high gasoline turnover and keep their equipment in good working order. Of course, you can always ask the attendant behind the register. I once asked the local station clerk, "When did you get your last fuel delivery" When I heard two weeks ago, I rode on to another station. Motor fuel does sour with age so, use caution.

If you get water in your crankcase, change the oil and filter ASAP.
def is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2013, 08:48 AM   #64
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,237
Appreciate the Education

Thanks for all the infomation on what is not a cut and dried [no pun] topic...water vapor in the crankcase and water in the oil..

Couple of points and then I will withdraw from what has become an off topic discussion from the original question.

While the pH is important for any contaminate, the quantity of any contaminate is also critical and can be the controlling factor regardless of the adverse nature of the contaminate.

Engine blow-by should not be a significant source of engine oil or surface contamination...period. If blow-by is significant enough to contaminate the oil then the motor design, assemble or state of wear is sub-standard. The boxer motor should not have sufficient blow-by to contaminate the oil. And I believe that it normally doesn't.

Compression on my GSA should be 145 psi and at 125 psi it is considered "poor". Airplane motors with 76 to 60 psi are different animals and not in this mix. All motors are not created alike.

As with the amount of contaminates [re: pH] the amount of blow-by is a huge factor; so inspite of some gases or fuel escaping past the rings [rings control the blow-by on both the piston and cylinder walls] this should not be a significant source of contamination in a modern, well designed and maintain boxer motor.

So what is "significant"? Last call, get an oil analysis and quit guessing. You folks have fun...
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 10:34 AM   #65
TORQUEMONSTER OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Oddometer: 39
oil looks good

I went for a ride the other day and the foaming oil was gone. When I get the chance I will check the pvc. Does anyone have a diagram of the PVC and how to replace it?
TORQUEMONSTER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2013, 03:47 PM   #66
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,237
There Isn't A PVC

Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUEMONSTER View Post
I went for a ride the other day and the foaming oil was gone. When I get the chance I will check the pvc. Does anyone have a diagram of the PVC and how to replace it?

See Posts 50 & 51 ...your bike does not have a PVC.
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 12:11 PM   #67
tps
Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Oddometer: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallowa View Post
See Posts 50 & 51 ...your bike does not have a PVC.
Yeah... most of the plastic is ABS. PVC tends to be a bit more brittle.
__________________
'04 R1150GS Adventure
'88 K75S, Red - Hellboy
'72 R75/5 Toaster, Blue - BluBawls
http://www.drysideriders.com
tps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 01:20 PM   #68
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,237
Laugh Ouch..You Got Me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tps View Post
Yeah... most of the plastic is ABS. PVC tends to be a bit more brittle.
Done that before...writing "PVC" when it should have been "PCV"....Positive Crankcase Ventilation or in medical terms "Packed cell volume"..

Odd as I get older this happens more often..
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 11:43 AM   #69
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUEMONSTER View Post
I went for a ride the other day and the foaming oil was gone. When I get the chance I will check the pvc. Does anyone have a diagram of the PVC and how to replace it?
That should be PCV (positive crankcase ventilation), a one-way valve that uses intake vacuum to remove vapors from an engine crankcase, not PVC, (poly vinyl chloride), a plastic used in plumbing and as insulation for wire.
def is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 02:37 PM   #70
Dan-M
Studly Adventurer
 
Dan-M's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Westbound
Oddometer: 883
Wow. All of this for some condensation.
More riding and less typing is the short answer.
__________________
---
Dan-M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 08:28 PM   #71
VEGASGSA
Need more Summer
 
VEGASGSA's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: The Northwet..
Oddometer: 6,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-M View Post
Wow. All of this for some condensation.
More riding and less typing is the short answer.
You're new here...huh? We will have..conservatively, 5 threads in the coming weeks about which oil to use and tire pressure..get used to it...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
You are not half as ugly as I thought you would be!
VEGASGSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 08:56 PM   #72
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
You're new here...huh? We will have..conservatively, 5 threads in the coming weeks about which oil to use and tire pressure..get used to it...
Give Dan a break...he lives in Illinois where the governor makes the license plates and its currently too cold to ride.




def is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 10:30 PM   #73
VEGASGSA
Need more Summer
 
VEGASGSA's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: The Northwet..
Oddometer: 6,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
Give Dan a break...he lives in Illinois where the governor makes the license plates and its currently too cold to ride.




__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
You are not half as ugly as I thought you would be!
VEGASGSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 09:18 AM   #74
Dan-M
Studly Adventurer
 
Dan-M's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Westbound
Oddometer: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by def View Post
Give Dan a break...he lives in Illinois where the governor makes the license plates and its currently too cold to ride.





Hey, that's two governors Mister. and untold numbers of mayors, congress men and police chiefs.
__________________
---
Dan-M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 10:06 AM   #75
def
Ginger th wonder dog
 
def's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: The woods and mountains of Alabama
Oddometer: 9,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-M View Post
Hey, that's two governors Mister. and untold numbers of mayors, congress men and police chiefs.
Sorry Dan.

I grew up in Lake Bluff during Richard J. Daley's time. Many of his cronies went to jail. I heard they had to hold city council meetings at the Cook County Jail to get a quorum.
def is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014