True Dualsports getting heavier and less powerful?

[Albie]

Originally Posted by Adv Grifter

I would disagree with this. Not much difference between all the big four. After testing dozens of test bikes the last 20 years ... I have some perspective on this.

Yamaha have done some good R&D, this is true. ... but so have Suzuki. That's why they've won so many championships over the last 10 years. Do your research. Both the GSXR's and RMX Moto bikes have done pretty well.

LOL, do some research? You may want to follow you're own advice. When's the last time Suzuki has won a MotoGP championship? I'll give you a hint, it's been longer then 10 years. The GSXR's aren't nearly the bike the R6 and R1 are, and I say that OWNING a GSXR. I remember when the RMZ's first came out. They were absolute shit. And when has Suzuki won the SX title with the RMX?

[Cruz]

Originally Posted by Albie

LOL, do some research? You may want to follow you're own advice. When's the last time Suzuki has won a MotoGP championship? I'll give you a hint, it's been longer then 10 years. The GSXR's aren't nearly the bike the R6 and R1 are, and I say that OWNING a GSXR. I remember when the RMZ's first came out. They were absolute shit. And when has Suzuki won the SX title with the RMX?

Did you read his third paragraph?

[steveWFL]

One contributing factor is the fact tree-huggers around the globe demand more emissions improvements (translation heavier motorcycles)

[Grreatdog]

Arguing MotoGP in Thumpers is kind of pointless anyway. The last time most Japanese thumpers saw any meaningful updates Eddie Lawson was racing a YZR500.

[joexr]

Originally Posted by Grreatdog

Arguing MotoGP in Thumpers is kind of pointless anyway. The last time most Japanese thumpers saw any meaningful updates Eddie Lawson was racing a YZR500.

Eddie Lawson hasnt raced grand prix since 92 . I didnt realize all of those 4-stroke Japanese motocross bike were such old tech.

[Grreatdog]

Do you mean the ones that just lost to a repurposed enduro with a steel frame?

[Sierra Thumper]

Originally Posted by steveWFL

One contributing factor is the fact tree-huggers around the globe demand more emissions improvements (translation heavier motorcycles)

I'm amazed KTM can still legally import dual sports into the U.S. with the power they have.
Pretty soon I imagine even they will get heavier and weaker under the power crushing/weight adding/fun killing hands of the epa.
Fun on 2 wheels is a dying sport

[joexr]

Originally Posted by Grreatdog

Do you mean the ones that just lost to a repurposed enduro with a steel frame?

Steel or aluminum , it doesnt matter , just different directions/theorys on strenghth verses weight.

[Adv Grifter]

Originally Posted by Off the grid

But I think the point is that Yamaha is really innovating and putting $$ into R&D these days whereas the other 3 are content to re-badge, re-sticker the same tired designs.

Honda's car division spend a tremendous amount on R&D in the car division ... and much of this trickles down to bikes. Read Kevin Cameron's interview with Honda Moto GP boss last issue. Neither Suzuki nor Yamaha can afford the sort of Billion dollar R&D Honda can.

Originally Posted by Off the grid

Yamaha shifted the piston position a few years back and put out the street-legal WR250. That alone is more than the other 3 have done in over a decade.

All the big four do Clean sheet re-designs of their 250/450 Moto bikes every two or three years. Suzuki has won most are ALL the magazine shoot outs in the last few years, and doing well in Moto and Super cross world wide.

Kawi released an upgraded version of the KLX250S a few years back. They also did a green sticker R version of the KX450. (not street legal but a very cool bike)

KTM is now in the mix too with Dungey. Same tired designs? You should try and keep up. Get a subscription to Dirt Bike. And PS: Yamaha are not doing all that well with the angled engine. (and I'm a huge James Stewart fan ... very disappointing ... yes, I know Stewart is now with Suzuki and still not doing well. When he is ON ... nobody comes close.

[Adv Grifter]

Originally Posted by Albie

LOL, do some research? You may want to follow you're own advice. When's the last time Suzuki has won a MotoGP championship? I'll give you a hint, it's been longer then 10 years. The GSXR's aren't nearly the bike the R6 and R1 are, and I say that OWNING a GSXR. I remember when the RMZ's first came out. They were absolute shit. And when has Suzuki won the SX title with the RMX?

Suzuki dropped out of Moto GP years ago. They admitted they simply can't afford it. No surprise. But the GSXR has won dozens of championships world wide. What was that crazy Aussie guys name? ... Mladin something .... 9 AMA championships? Not bad in supersport either.

And Suzuki's success in Moto/Super was there long before the RMZ. Remember what Dungey rode before he was on a KTM? And what about Ricky Carmichael? How far back you want to go? They have a solid history and current Suzukis are rated the BEST by most of the Moto press.
Read the reviews.

Non racer, everyday users will have different ownership experiences depending on use and abuse. I contend the big four are all fairly close ... with perhaps one or the other having a bad year once in a long while. Same with road bikes. All pretty good quality, IMO but distinctly different feel from one to the other.

I do agree that Yamaha have the coolest current dual sport on the market right now ... the WR250R. But reading the BIG WR thread for the last year I'm surprised to read of so many engine problems/failures by owners using them hard. Only problem is price. Expensive bike compared to competition.

If KTM come forward with a India made 390 dual sport version they will clean everyone's clock (IMHO) . The "Duke" version is said to sell for around $5K usd.

[Adv Grifter]

Originally Posted by steveWFL

One contributing factor is the fact tree-huggers around the globe demand more emissions improvements (translation heavier motorcycles)

Emissions are the least of our worries. Have you ridden in Europe? I have. In industrialized nations there is virtually NO LAND to ride dirt bikes (or dual sport bikes) on. Germany is the worst with France, Austria, Scandinavia follow close behind. Worse every year. I did ride off road in Andorra and a bit in Southern Spain ... but very very limited. I honest to God think the Germans would shoot you off your bike for riding off road. They are very seriously ANTI dirt bike.

[Off the grid]

Originally Posted by Adv Grifter

Honda's car division spend a tremendous amount on R&D in the car division ... and much of this trickles down to bikes. Read Kevin Cameron's interview with Honda Moto GP boss last issue. Neither Suzuki nor Yamaha can afford the sort of Billion dollar R&D Honda can.



All the big four do Clean sheet re-designs of their 250/450 Moto bikes every two or three years. Suzuki has won most are ALL the magazine shoot outs in the last few years, and doing well in Moto and Super cross world wide.

Kawi released an upgraded version of the KLX250S a few years back. They also did a green sticker R version of the KX450. (not street legal but a very cool bike)

KTM is now in the mix too with Dungey. Same tired designs? You should try and keep up. Get a subscription to Dirt Bike. And PS: Yamaha are not doing all that well with the angled engine. (and I'm a huge James Stewart fan ... very disappointing ... yes, I know Stewart is now with Suzuki and still not doing well. When he is ON ... nobody comes close.

Admittedly I'm not big on the Motocross news nor keep up to date on the bikes companies put out for Motocross. Hence, the last issue of Dirt Rider I read had a 450 shootout and a review of the Yamaha 250.

My post was more directed at the street legal/dual sport market, of which I'm pretty sure all of us would like to see some new designs/competition.

[Adv Grifter]

Originally Posted by Off the grid

Admittedly I'm not big on the Motocross news nor keep up to date on the bikes companies put out for Motocross. Hence, the last issue of Dirt Rider I read had a 450 shootout and a review of the Yamaha 250.

My post was more directed at the street legal/dual sport market, of which I'm pretty sure all of us would like to see some new designs/competition.

The Moto mags are tough to read as they are aimed at the 12 to 19 year old moto kids out there. But they DO have the facts and some do good tests on new bikes, and usually do decent summaries of the new tech and up grades.

If the Dual Sport segment continues strong we May actually see more Japanese participation in new Dual Sport bikes. As I said, my hope is KTM will jump in with a dual sport version of the Duke 390.