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Old 02-05-2013, 11:08 PM   #46
FR700
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Just the puller , the rest is just normal hand tools/spanners.

The age old question ... genuine , non genuine ... your call. Try taking the old ones out and dragging your arse to super cheap and see if they'll swap with a set of bosch ones for a car.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:56 PM   #47
KayAitch OP
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Spoke to a mechanic today from a store that sells 'Retro' motorcycles like mine at super inflated prices.

He said if it was the condenser it would be damaging/dirtying the points or something like that and that my symptoms don't sound like that. He said it wouldn't idle fine when the problem starts to appear. However, my bike still idles pretty smoothly even when this problem is happening, it only stutters under load/acceleration.

Can someone give me the run down on exactly why this might be a condenser? I've been enjoying playing around but lately it's started to give me the shits.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:23 PM   #48
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Maybe one more thing worth checking.
Not knowing the history of how and with what kind of oil the bike was previously used, I would remove the cylinder head and look for cabon buildup wich would raise the compression causing overheating and detonation.
A cloged pipe would have compounded the problem.
If the head gasket is copper you can heat it with a propane torch to anneal it and reuse.

Good luck
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:08 PM   #49
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Hi Frank,

When I did the top end I had the head bead blasted to clean it up. The new pipe is breathing great. So we can eliminate those areas as any concern I feel.

Next stop: find me a fly wheel puller to the right size and have a go at the points, condenser and coil.

Dan
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:57 AM   #50
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Unscrupulous operators. Now I know what a SIEZE feels like.

Guys, I stuffed up! Badly :(. Despite my gut instincts telling me to avoid the 'Retro' blokes I was speaking of, I rationalised that they have shitloads of old 2 strokes for sale so the must know their stuff. The mechanic says, "mate it's $125 for a service and I'll no doubt find the problem", I bump into the owner in the parking lot the same day, he seems like a good guy, and he says "my mechanic will find it". OK, $125 and they'll check the brakes and stuff I haven't bothered with AND they'll test the ignition. This is handy for me because I don't have the meters to check the ignition etc add to that buying the flywheel puller and I'm almost saving money.

I tell them that the timing is spot on and the carb seems fine but maybe one notch too rich and then I say, "I just want a service and to suss out this problem that happens after 25 minutes, this stuttering and eventual stall". When I drop it off the mechanic is "too busy" to chat. I reiterate to the lady about what I, the customer, want. Then, 2 days pass and I think to give them a call because I'm wary of their non-communication to talk to the mechanic to make sure he isn't going too far, or in the wrong direction. Once again he is "too busy". I'm getting bad feelings. I call again and get the same result. I got sick of waiting so I pop by the workshop. "Oh, it's ready!", the lady says. It's ready? Hmmm. So I talk to the mechanic and he's like "I just leaned your needle two notches." I'm dubious, this sounds too simple. He tells me the points and condenser are fine and timing is OK.

I KNEW that the timing was fine, it has been triple checked and I could have tuned the carby myself. All I asked for was the service in the hope they would find the problem. Oh, the cost... $313. Two hours extra labour there!!! I could have leaned the needle in 30 minutes and I'm a rookie.

I am pissed but if it is fixed, it is fixed, and I just want to get out of there. I get on the bike. The first traffic lights it stalls. I kick it over. Idling is rough and it stalls again. I try and turn the idle up (I have access to the idle rod via a neat little rubber boot on top of the carb). It's idling sporadically and at higher revs in 2nd gear it is rough as guts. I'm so angry. It stops on me 4 times in about 4 kms and is a bitch to start again. I try and take it back to them. It dies on me 4 times again. I enter the store all guns blazing with "mate, it's no good. it is a hell of a lot worse than when I brought it in. it won't idle. it's rough as hell. this isn't good enough." he agrees to take another look and decides to clean the float bowl for me or something and brings it back out. "idling ok now" he says. it is and it continues to idle well and run nicely for 5 minutes towards my house until it does the same old tricks.

Then while I'm trying to get it home, giving it a rest every little bit because it inevitably stalls, at 60km/h I feel my first ever real sieze. The sensation is exactly how you all have described. It's not the stuttering I have been otherwise experiencing.

Bastards. I have no doubt their ineptitude has exacerbated a problem that already existed BUT I took it to them to FIND the problem. Critical errors here are, firstly, leaning a carby TWO NOTCHES when your customer has said "I think it could be heat related" and then there are all the other issues of them overcharging me and not doing what I had asked as a customer.

Perhaps I was naive to take it to these guys after my gut feeling. Fair to say I'm paying the price now and I feel naive and stupid for handing over my bike to assholes.

The damage:



This plug is clearly too lean, isn't it? It is white after 10 minutes of running. It should show colour. I paid an extra $200 for a guy to do this and to cause the seizure in my engine.



Now I get to go back in there tomorrow to tell them I want my money back. Otherwise, it's consumer affairs or something. Do I have a leg to stand on?

KayAitch screwed with this post 02-20-2013 at 06:05 AM
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:08 AM   #51
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Update

I know that that was a long one so no replies are expected . I'd also like to humbly apologize and thank the people that have offered me advice in this thread. I should have done it DIY but what these people offered to me made me think at worst I would be $125 poorer with the problem unfound. It is much worse than that now.

Any Aussie's around that have dealt with operators such as these? I am begging for advice as to how to at the least get my money back. Damages will come after that but are obviously harder to prove. I just want the money back for the work that I never agreed to or asked for.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:57 PM   #52
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That really sucks about the shop, I wouldnt have charged you a dime for that service, I mean what did they do?, Nor would I have fucked with the carb. How could they think it needed to be leaner?

Has the timing been checked with a dial indicatior down the bore, or just on the flywheel?

Also, I know you said you have cleaned the tank and strainer, but have you checked the flow? Recently? I've had two engines that ran great, and woiuld putter out and die becuase they had enough flow to keep up with the engine at idle, but not at full throttle. Cleaned out they had lots of flow, but they sucked up some more shit quickly.

I'd clean her bore up and put some new crank seals in now. It would suck to have it back together, and go lean and kill it becuase of a crank seal.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:13 AM   #53
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Cheers for the reply there.

I agree, horrible work and I'm going to try and fight it through the consumer affairs channels. I've since been enlightened that the operators of this business are very dubious people indeed. Unfortunately there is a loophole in my state where there is no statutory warranty on motorcycle mechanical services AND used motorcycle sales. This is why these shonks can get away with it. There is not legislative coverage and people can't go to courts because it will be very expensive. I'm going to talk to my local Member of Parliament and other relevant parties, perhaps get a petition going from motorcyclists, to try and make a change. Just because only 5% of traffic are motorcyclists, doesn't mean we shouldn't be legally protected. Outrageous!

I'm 90% sure the timing has only been checked on the flywheel but not certain.

I haven't checked fuel flow recently. Is the best way to check simply by pulling the hose off the carb? The bike has a history of flow issues. The old petcock was buggered and the fuel cap wasn't venting properly and stopping flow. They have since been replaced. I guess it's possible that it is flow but the engine does need quite a good rest after symptoms appear, at least 10 minutes. If it was intermittent flow, would it take as long as 10-15 minutes to catch up? I still feel it is heat related, air leak or electrical.

I have already found a NOS Kawasaki piston in eBay at a good price. I am going to get it re-bored and I will do a full strip down and rebuild from the bottom up. I will go new seals, new rotary valve (just in case that is a part of it), piston & rings, get the casings cleaned up, new ignition coil and condenser, get the points checked, and so on.



To save money, what parts of the job can a relative rookie hope to attempt? I've considered doing it myself but feel after all this it is too much for me. As it stands the bike ain't worth much and I have spent a lot of time and money. I need it running well.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:09 AM   #54
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KH, I dont know what state you are in, but get in contact with the VJMC or local motorcycle racing club, those guys that race buckets and historic 2 strokes will help you out a heap with information and reputable people to deal with.

I am in NSW now, but may be able to direct you to someone in SA or WA that can help you get it sorted.
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:50 AM   #55
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I'm glad your not giving up on her, its a real nice looking bike.

I only mention the timing becuase its possible for the fly wheel to move, making the timing marks wrong. Having it too advanced will make it run hot, more fuel will kinda compensate for that, but not completely. Just a sugestion. Theres alot of good into on checking it and how to make the tool here. http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/930...nition-timing/
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:02 AM   #56
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Just saw this thread....really stinks that the shop stiffed ya and screwed your bike up... Not sure what you can persue over there in oz...

The little kawi 100s are a fun little bike when running good...i have an 01 ke100....awesome little bike that uses next to no gas...LOL
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:22 AM   #57
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Old Noob

First post here for me...Hello Ya'll.


Long ago I was told that a condenser can have a fail mode that happens with heat increase. At the time, I had a 650 Triumph that wuz driving me nuts with one cyl. cutting out every time I went somewhere. Changed the condenser, never had another licka trouble. From that day on, I've been a believer.

I am also a certified electrical idiot, so I have no idea why this is so.

Good luck with it and let us know. (+1 on dial indicator timing)
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:12 PM   #58
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Cheers Gordy! I sent you a PM. I'd love to find some knowledgable people here in Adelaide. Will sign up to the VJMC too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordyOZ View Post
KH, I dont know what state you are in, but get in contact with the VJMC or local motorcycle racing club, those guys that race buckets and historic 2 strokes will help you out a heap with information and reputable people to deal with.

I am in NSW now, but may be able to direct you to someone in SA or WA that can help you get it sorted.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:14 PM   #59
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It's been such a saga mucking around with this thing that it has become an obsession. It's my first bike and I'm not gonna move on until she is real nice.

I will certainly look into this timing test.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 408Fairmont View Post
I'm glad your not giving up on her, its a real nice looking bike.

I only mention the timing becuase its possible for the fly wheel to move, making the timing marks wrong. Having it too advanced will make it run hot, more fuel will kinda compensate for that, but not completely. Just a sugestion. Theres alot of good into on checking it and how to make the tool here. http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/930...nition-timing/
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:36 AM   #60
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UPDATE: We are going full rebuild!

Hello folks,

This happened:



First time I have taken an engine out of a bike. Quite enjoyed it. I used a jack from my automobile to take tension off the mount bolts while finally taking the engine out. Found from there I could just use the jack to push the sucker up and then lift it out.

So, YEP. I've got a guy recommended to me by people I trust and he is gonna rebuild it from the bottom up for me for not too much money. I figure this will give the bike a new life . At the same time I want to make sure the carby is back to stock jettings, replace all ignition parts and make sure there is good fuel flow.

The big question:Since this is all apart. What would you replace to make sure the rebirth went well? Carb set up, jetted and cleaned to perfection? New ignition coil, cap, condensor? I've filled the tank to the top and popped some stabil in, should I empty and clean the thing? I am going to replace chain and sprockets at a bare minimum. My air filter box looks a bit worse for wear. I'll take some photos of various bits so you guys are better informed.

Lastly, thank you for all your help again. I'm not stopping until this little thing runs so sweet, and I hope in time I will become more of a contributor.
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