ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > GSpot > GS Boxers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-14-2009, 09:22 AM   #16
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,011
Laugh Why I Asked...But Each To Their Own

Quote:
Originally Posted by (sp?)
STP - standard temperature and pressure, e.g. a value corrected for temperature and altitude.

these runs were taken one evening after JohnJen, Javarilla and I had just done OVADs on our bikes. I don't have the stock data but do have an RPM correlated graph.

Once upon a time I lusted after a R1200S...had a special order in with BMW...desposited $1,000...waited three months for delivery..then was told that BMW had cancelled all special R1200S orders since there were too many in inventory....Dealer was great and had no real part in it; BMW never hinted they were going to cancel... Dealer gave me my $1,000 back...I turned around and bought my '07GSA...in my opinion a much better bike than the S for me...

OK...long way around for these points...while researching my R1200S I got heavy into adding an after market exhaust...here is what I found:

#1 Very expensive; very,very expensive

#2 Perhaps a slight 3-4 Hp increase at higher Rpms

#3 The torque curve had a flat spot relative to stock in mid-Rpm range [see above]


So for a sports bike it was a toss up...for a GS or GSA used off road it was not what I personally want...why:

#1 I have all the Hp and torque that I could want or use

#2 The torque I wanted was in mid-range not at higher Rpms

Soooooo....I have found that exhaust systems, ignition mods, fuel control mods are only of benefit if they fit your special needs...discussing them is like discussing which oil is best! Lots of opinions..

If you want to put on a cool looking and sounding exhaust...go for it, it is your bike, do with it what you want to...

Dean's Hp vs weight is a good one; on a race bike this would make sense..... weight is especially of interest for me when that weight is carried up high above CG, where the muffler is mounted.....but I have just shed 27 pounds of weight by going to soft luggage [Ortlieb] and benching my BMW aluminum "adv" boxes..and again I have got way more Hp/torque that I could ever need or learn to use...but reducing weight and especially wt. above the CG will accelerate the development of my riding skills...skilled riders of GSAs can carry a huge load and still make the bike dance under control over tough off road terrain...I can't yet but that is my goal.

If you can overlay the stock vs custom exhausts curves...most manufacturers have this on their web sites, but doing your own dyno test has more validity...check out where and when the advertised advantages occur compare that to where and when you most frequently use the Hp/Tq.

To paraphrase a producer of off road riding skill training DVDs "the best accessory you can add to your bike to improve your skills is gasoline"

Ps...You measure torque and calculate Hp from that @ Rpms...torque rules!
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"

Wallowa screwed with this post 08-14-2009 at 09:32 AM
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 10:01 AM   #17
SCQTT
Zwei Kolben
 
SCQTT's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: Mike's Sky Rancho
Oddometer: 5,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce25
Thanks for the reply's. I do want a louder pipe as well. You all agree that the AKRA is louder? And sounds pretty good? After reading you reply's it just confirms my thoughts. Like a few said above it is already backfiring Stock, how is it going to get better by adding more air and no fuel!!!

You do know that the engine configuration and not the "pipe" is what makes the bikes sound the way they do. Right?

Most people want their bike to typically sound like one of three engine configurations.

a 45 degree V twin with a single crankpin.

A 90 degree V twin.

An inline four.

People tend to make up for the fact that they do not have the "right" engine layout for the optimum sound they are looking for by making their bike louder.

I'm sorry, I do not mean to insult you if you know all of this, but I am really surprised by how many people do not.
__________________
This is SPARTA!
SCQTT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:47 PM   #18
(sp?)
flaming ahole ;)
 
(sp?)'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Seattle, USA
Oddometer: 5,352
I wasn't looking for more horsepower (directly). I put the exhaust on it so I could hear the bike. I like to watch the road when I ride and hearing the exhaust allows me to shift the bike better. I didn't want an excessively loud bike and have been happy with StainTune exhausts on previous BMWs. It works as expected and I like it.

I didn't notice any substantial improvement in HP or Torque. The 5000 rpm dip is there with the stock system also. I liken it to a turbo - get it up above 5K and it takes off. As an extra benefit, the StainTune is much lighter than the stock system.
__________________
Blue KTM Forum now!!!
--
'09 Husaberg FE570
'05 BMW R1200GS
(sp?) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 05:00 PM   #19
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,011
Good Call

Quote:
Originally Posted by (sp?)
I wasn't looking for more horsepower (directly). I put the exhaust on it so I could hear the bike. I like to watch the road when I ride and hearing the exhaust allows me to shift the bike better. I didn't want an excessively loud bike and have been happy with StainTune exhausts on previous BMWs. It works as expected and I like it.

I didn't notice any substantial improvement in HP or Torque. The 5000 rpm dip is there with the stock system also. I liken it to a turbo - get it up above 5K and it takes off. As an extra benefit, the StainTune is much lighter than the stock system.
Hey (sp?),

Like I said before we should do what we personally want to do with our bikes....put on or take off anything that our heart desires..we only have to please ourselves..

I love to run through mechanical issues to find out exactly what the cause and effect relationships are...in other words the what, why and when.

My questions and comments about a torque dip or flattening of torque curve were made to compare what happens with most after market exhaust systems on our Boxer motors...the after market exhausts trade off some torque at lower rpm [your charts show the torque decreases about 4,400 rpm and then starts up about a little past 4,800 rpm] for gains at higher rpms....

If you can find stock Tq/Hp curves you will not see these mid-range torque drops...but if you don't spend much time in that mid-range flat spot it doesn't matter that it is there...blip the throttle, you are past it on the way to higher rpms, the "5,000 rpm" launch you describe is where the torque slope on the stock motor steepens heading toward max torque...but since I ride almost entirely off road, that loss of torque in mid-range could become problematic for me...the even torque grunt off road is what keeps you in control...and linear is better than ups and downs..oh yes, I wear ear plugs and a full helmet, always have, so I shift by the feel of the motor and other mechanical sounds..never have used the exhaust as a cue...but then I don't like the pounding pulses of loud pipes, just my tastes.

Soooooo...glad you like the sound, the look and the feel...that exhaust system you have is one of the better after market systems and very popular.. enjoy!
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 08:08 PM   #20
(sp?)
flaming ahole ;)
 
(sp?)'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Seattle, USA
Oddometer: 5,352
very likely a local minima/maxima of resonance causing back pressure in exhaust flow and up through the intake. the StainTune may have it there. the factory likely has it somewhere else. I play with inserting the silencer (outlet reduction) and find the torque is smoothed out. I suspect it fills in that trough.

for offroad, I use the black 'n' blusaberg. the GS is simply too big - even though I'm not exactly small at 6'6" and 250 lbs. the 'berg has 3 fuel injection maps. the softest map has the best power delivery for tight trails. the upper two maps are much different and carry a bigger power hit. it has the stock pipe which flows fine and has the advantage of stealth. the only thing you hear is the honk of the airbox - located right between your legs.

__________________
Blue KTM Forum now!!!
--
'09 Husaberg FE570
'05 BMW R1200GS
(sp?) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 09:49 PM   #21
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,011
That Is Puuuurty!

Quote:
Originally Posted by (sp?)
very likely a local minima/maxima of resonance causing back pressure in exhaust flow and up through the intake. the StainTune may have it there. the factory likely has it somewhere else. I play with inserting the silencer (outlet reduction) and find the torque is smoothed out. I suspect it fills in that trough.

for offroad, I use the black 'n' blusaberg. the GS is simply too big - even though I'm not exactly small at 6'6" and 250 lbs. the 'berg has 3 fuel injection maps. the softest map has the best power delivery for tight trails. the upper two maps are much different and carry a bigger power hit. it has the stock pipe which flows fine and has the advantage of stealth. the only thing you hear is the honk of the airbox - located right between your legs.

That bike is beautiful and functional...nice ride! Check those rotors..
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 06:47 AM   #22
sauce25 OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Oddometer: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCQTT
You do know that the engine configuration and not the "pipe" is what makes the bikes sound the way they do. Right?

Most people want their bike to typically sound like one of three engine configurations.

a 45 degree V twin with a single crankpin.

A 90 degree V twin.

An inline four.

People tend to make up for the fact that they do not have the "right" engine layout for the optimum sound they are looking for by making their bike louder.

I'm sorry, I do not mean to insult you if you know all of this, but I am really surprised by how many people do not.

No offense taken. I am aware of that. I just like a loud pipes or louder than stock anyway. I like to hear every rev the bike makes. I enjoy the exhaust tune. My question was related to the different exhaust sounds for this bike. One suggested that the Akra had a better sound than others. I was just looking for opinions from that. I want to change the pipe more for sound than performance. However bikes in general run better/cooler when they are opened up. Stock these bikes run lean as it is.
sauce25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 08:35 AM   #23
Wallowa
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: NE Oregon
Oddometer: 5,011
Video's With Pipe Sounds

Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce25
No offense taken. I am aware of that. I just like a loud pipes or louder than stock anyway. I like to hear every rev the bike makes. I enjoy the exhaust tune. My question was related to the different exhaust sounds for this bike. One suggested that the Akra had a better sound than others. I was just looking for opinions from that. I want to change the pipe more for sound than performance. However bikes in general run better/cooler when they are opened up. Stock these bikes run lean as it is.
I remember several videos done to document exhaust notes on different exhaust systems....sorry no references or bookmarks...in fact I believe that a couple were on R1200S forum...Akra did have a "unique" note! [besides the sound of dollars burning ]...if you are really interested it will take time but searches on forums will get you at least some idea of how each system sounds..

Now how about a set of Smitty's on a flat-head motor! Or the DOHC 6 cyl Jags...or...
__________________
"In Wallowas"
====================
2007 R1200GS Adventure " ...to explore off-road, alone in my case, way out in the boonies...that feeds the soul!"
Wallowa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 12:02 PM   #24
GodSilla
I did that.
 
GodSilla's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Location: Village Idiot's residence
Oddometer: 7,217
Best sounding? Staintune. Music to the ears, but others don't seem to notice too much. They seem to have gotten the knack of letting the rider hear the glorious rumbling, but the sound doesn't bounce off the walls like open pipe Harleys, or even BM's with Leo Vince pipes (now they are LOUD).
GodSilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 12:48 PM   #25
scooteraug02
Dog Rancher
 
scooteraug02's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Oddometer: 4,256
Touratech in SEA had a nice carbon fiber pipe that sounds nice and eliminates the CAT. I heard it and liked it. I can't find it in their catalog though.

I put Remus on my Vstrom and ZTechnik on my 03 GSA. Now I have an 08 GSA and I like the stock pipe sound. When I put the ZTechnik on the 03 I noticed it said "off road only" which makes the thing illegal for street use if that ever becomes an issue.

For now I am keeping mine stock. I like the sound. I made a 3 day trip with some Harley friends with straight pipes. Cruising was no problem because they were behind but slow in town stop sign to stop sign they were obnoxious. I like quiet.

Also once you spend the bucks and put a new pipe on your bike you will only see guys with stock pipes. While you have your stock pipe you probably are seeing a lot of after market pipes.
__________________
scooteraug02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 01:33 PM   #26
mcperformance
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Victoria, Australia
Oddometer: 101
Thumb Sound

Hi all,
I find it interesting how people go & spend mega bucks on 2 systems that BMW sell.
Has anyone ever sort that BMW get big kick back (mark up) by selling these 2 systems.
Double the cost for 1-2 HP not good value for $$ Really.
Not to mention they con people by saying they won't cover them for warranty.
Do you really think other big companies around the world would be selling their systems if they were going to blow up the bike????
Anyway as far as noise goes everyone is different (I've had people say they want their bike louder than stock (but not harley loud) yet by the time they finish they might as well have straight pipes) How long is a piece of string.
As long as the person riding the bike is happy, that is what matters to me.
Chappy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooteraug02 View Post
Touratech in SEA had a nice carbon fiber pipe that sounds nice and eliminates the CAT. I heard it and liked it. I can't find it in their catalog though.

I put Remus on my Vstrom and ZTechnik on my 03 GSA. Now I have an 08 GSA and I like the stock pipe sound. When I put the ZTechnik on the 03 I noticed it said "off road only" which makes the thing illegal for street use if that ever becomes an issue.

For now I am keeping mine stock. I like the sound. I made a 3 day trip with some Harley friends with straight pipes. Cruising was no problem because they were behind but slow in town stop sign to stop sign they were obnoxious. I like quiet.

Also once you spend the bucks and put a new pipe on your bike you will only see guys with stock pipes. While you have your stock pipe you probably are seeing a lot of after market pipes.
__________________
Visit my website for exhaust and mufflers
http://www.mcperformance.com.au
mcperformance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:20 PM   #27
STUFF2C
We Ain't Left Yet!!
 
STUFF2C's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: O-lando
Oddometer: 2,211
Remus headers and Stock can = perrrrrrfect note
__________________
Thanks to the Interstate Highway System, it is now possible to travel from coast to coast without seeing anything.
-- Charles Kuralt

I never plan a ride, just the destination and that's always subject to change.
STUFF2C is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014