The XL600 thread - Page 460

davek181 · 02-05-2013, 01:18 PM

These were known to be lean when new. Back in those days you would nurse it home lean from the showroom and pull the bowls to rejet. Gas has evolved since then too, reed vapor pressure has changed as has octane, and beneficial additives are virtually nonexistent these days.

I have done extensive experimentation with jetting and needles and slides over the years to get to where I am now. I hate to pull the carbs so I have figured out ways to do nearly everything with carbs in place. I did have to pull them off last year to replace the decell diaphragm finally, I just got tired of the backfires.

Homerb · 02-05-2013, 02:12 PM

I had a similar problem on a yamaha some years ago. Pulled head off, checked valves, cleaned and rebuilt carbs countless times. Bla bla bla. Turned out to be cdi.
If possible, swap for a known good cdi, to eliminate that as a possibity.

m2h · 02-05-2013, 05:10 PM

Hi guys, Am doing a rebuild on my '86 and would like to ask about partzilla's crankcase gasket set. It says its not OEM and i was wondering if anyone had any experience with them? Would appreciate any help as to alternatives

Thanks
M2H

davek181 · 02-05-2013, 07:06 PM

I prefer OEM gaskets, sometimes if you price them they are fairly competitive. I definitely use only OEM seals. It is really hard to go back and replace the center case gasket after the fact in case of failure.

Stretchah · 02-05-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beardothebeardo

I hate writing out what my back ground is. Maybe we all should start putting what experience we have in our signatures, just as a heads up. I have done all that you have talked about. That's why I mentioned having the carbs off multiple times. Just to double and triple check myself. The only other part I can think of is the actual ignition pick-up not picking up as the revs rise. But one would think that would be affecting at all RPMs.

Starving for fuel was the first thought through my head, and will probably triple check all that again.

I was hoping there was something obscure with these bikes that I was missing.

Stock main jets shouldn't produce what I'm going through. If so, then all these bikes when new would have gone through the same thing. They didn't, and that's why I rule that out.

Have you checked the ignition pick up is in the right resistance range? I'd give that a go first as easier to rule out rather than opening up the carbs again. I've had issues with pick-ups before and it tends to bog down in the upper rev range as the resistance builds and it steadily gets worse moving down the rev range over time...if it's not that and I think you said you'd swapped out cdi and coil then at least you know it's more likely to be fuelling issues, good luck

davek181 · 02-06-2013, 05:24 AM

Never hurts to double check the electrical side. Usually though it seems electrical maladies aren't so predictable and repeatable. I had an intermittent issue with a stator that had me convinced it was carburetor problems.

I had been battling previous owner neglect and finding white crusties from dried fuel occasionally collecting in the the fuel bowl and getting sucked into a main jet on high flow. Luckily I have XR carbs and could just unscrew the nut off the bottom of the float bowl and dump it out. I cleaned and flushed the tank but still seemed to act up now and again, curiously after a wheelie more often than not, I figured I was stirring up muck in the tank. I would set the front end back down and notice reduced power, very much like one carb's main jet choking on a hairball. It would run but just at half power. Sometimes it would pass on it's own, but more likely I would stop at first opportunity and pull the right main jet cover and dump it out noticing that I really didn't see much for chunks there, but it always worked. I figured I would eventually get all the crap worked though bit by bit. I was curious why always the right side cured it and never had to pull the left.

One day sitting at a stoplight after having been far out of town, the engine shut off like someone had turned off the key. Fortunately I was only about a block from the shop so I could push it from there. I found the stator had failed so I ordered up a Ricky and put it in, a modification I was planning anyway if it gave me any lip. The bike fired right up first kick after the new stator and I also noticed easier starting in general from that point on, so it was apparently weak and I didn't know it. From that day forward my mysterious carburetor drop out problem completely disappeared too. I still wonder to this day how it was triggered by a wheelstand or heavy load, and how pulling the main jet cover and dumping it seemed to revive it. I can only imagine the load broke it down, and the ritual of pulling the cover allowed enough cooling time to recover.

My Ricky stator has failed once too since then, but it died on the charge coil side of it that time and didn't make me walk, or cause any running problems. It had lasted a long time, so I bought another Ricky without hesitation and put it in. I figured it had gone 20,000 miles which was farther than the original so it was the obvious choice. Also after contacting Ricky they offered to repair or replace it free of charge. I still need to send it in to them and have a spare on the shelf just in case.

beardothebeardo · 02-06-2013, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stretchah

Have you checked the ignition pick up is in the right resistance range? I'd give that a go first as easier to rule out rather than opening up the carbs again. I've had issues with pick-ups before and it tends to bog down in the upper rev range as the resistance builds and it steadily gets worse moving down the rev range over time...if it's not that and I think you said you'd swapped out cdi and coil then at least you know it's more likely to be fuelling issues, good luck

You happen to know what the resistance values are for the pick-up? I'm almost positive I checked that awhile ago, but been long enough that I'm uncertain.

lookfar · 02-06-2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moparmanpete

510-570 Ohms

Or 0.7 to 1.0 Volt as the engine is turned over.

m2h · 02-06-2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davek181

I prefer OEM gaskets, sometimes if you price them they are fairly competitive. I definitely use only OEM seals. It is really hard to go back and replace the center case gasket after the fact in case of failure.

Yep I agree there. Ok I'll look into it some more. Thanks Dave
Regards
M2H

beardothebeardo · 02-07-2013, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moparmanpete

510-570 Ohms

Mine is at a consistent 389. Too low...

Stretchah · 02-07-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beardothebeardo

Mine is at a consistent 389. Too low...

Sorry mate don't want to confuse things, but, I just remembered something and have double checked... it may be okay...

I had a few issues when I first bought mine and tested the pickup coil and found it to be 383 ohms, thought it was knackered and bought a nos honda one and found that to be the same. So, I figured there may be an error in the Honda workshop manual or just newer parts testing differently. Anyway, finally sorted out the issues and it seemed to run okay until the issues with the valve seat.

My Haynes manual turned up shortly after and in there it states the pulsar/pickup coil should test at 360 - 440 ohms. I've just tested mine again and it's 383. Not sure if one of the XL guru's can shed any light on this? I'm also wondering what values the clymer manual gives, if anyones got one?

mcma111 · 02-07-2013, 02:00 PM

Stretchah

If you go by a Honda parts fich and have ALL of the shown spacers and washers in place there is no reason to have to shim the shaft. I'd go over the shaft and recheck it for all of the correct pieces. Some end play is normal.

mcma111 · 02-07-2013, 04:30 PM

Jim who?

Stretchah · 02-07-2013, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moparmanpete

sorry, Jimridesthis was asking about spacers in his rebuild thread.

Yep, definitely not me, but, cheers anyway :)

Stretchah · 02-07-2013, 11:20 PM

Hi everyone, while the head is still being worked on :( I thought I'd get a few things upgraded for the Xl :)
My Dakar tank arrived yesterday, planning to do a trip to Morocco later in the year so thought it would be a good idea to increase my range.
I know a few people on here have fitted Dakar/LM tanks, so, I'm wondering how they went about fitting and securing the front tank brackets to the R frame? I want it so that I can still fit and use the standard tank too as the LM one looks like a little large for my off road trips ;) Any ideas or pics greatly received :)

02-07-2013, 02:00 PM	#6897
mcma111 Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2007 Location: San Francisco,Ca. Oddometer: 7,999	End Float Stretchah If you go by a Honda parts fich and have ALL of the shown spacers and washers in place there is no reason to have to shim the shaft. I'd go over the shaft and recheck it for all of the correct pieces. Some end play is normal. __________________ Steve in SF BMW's 58 R26 79 R100s 91 R100gs 87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project

02-07-2013, 04:30 PM	#6898
mcma111 Beastly Adventurer Joined: Jul 2007 Location: San Francisco,Ca. Oddometer: 7,999	Jim who? __________________ Steve in SF BMW's 58 R26 79 R100s 91 R100gs 87 Harley FXRS-SP ~ 06 KTM 625 SMC ~ 72 Honda CB750/915cc ~ 92 XR600/654cc ~ 95 XR650l/675cc ~ 03 CRF450r ~ 05 CRF450x ~ 02 XR650l/675cc ~ 86 YZ490 ~ 93 YZ80 ~ 93 XR650l Project

02-07-2013, 11:20 PM	#6900
Stretchah Adventurer Joined: Oct 2012 Location: London Oddometer: 52	Hi everyone, while the head is still being worked on :( I thought I'd get a few things upgraded for the Xl :) My Dakar tank arrived yesterday, planning to do a trip to Morocco later in the year so thought it would be a good idea to increase my range. I know a few people on here have fitted Dakar/LM tanks, so, I'm wondering how they went about fitting and securing the front tank brackets to the R frame? I want it so that I can still fit and use the standard tank too as the LM one looks like a little large for my off road trips ;) Any ideas or pics greatly received :) __________________ ____________________ 84 Harris Magnum 2 84 XL600R 85 Vespa PK135

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02-05-2013, 01:18 PM	#6886
davek181 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Idaho Oddometer: 174	These were known to be lean when new. Back in those days you would nurse it home lean from the showroom and pull the bowls to rejet. Gas has evolved since then too, reed vapor pressure has changed as has octane, and beneficial additives are virtually nonexistent these days. I have done extensive experimentation with jetting and needles and slides over the years to get to where I am now. I hate to pull the carbs so I have figured out ways to do nearly everything with carbs in place. I did have to pull them off last year to replace the decell diaphragm finally, I just got tired of the backfires.

02-05-2013, 02:12 PM	#6887
Homerb Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2011 Location: Toukley NSW Australia Oddometer: 204	I had a similar problem on a yamaha some years ago. Pulled head off, checked valves, cleaned and rebuilt carbs countless times. Bla bla bla. Turned out to be cdi. If possible, swap for a known good cdi, to eliminate that as a possibity.

02-05-2013, 05:10 PM	#6888
m2h "Old guys rule" Joined: Nov 2012 Location: Waipu New Zealand Oddometer: 39	Hi guys, Am doing a rebuild on my '86 and would like to ask about partzilla's crankcase gasket set. It says its not OEM and i was wondering if anyone had any experience with them? Would appreciate any help as to alternatives Thanks M2H

02-05-2013, 07:06 PM	#6889
davek181 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Idaho Oddometer: 174	I prefer OEM gaskets, sometimes if you price them they are fairly competitive. I definitely use only OEM seals. It is really hard to go back and replace the center case gasket after the fact in case of failure.

02-06-2013, 05:24 AM	#6891
davek181 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2007 Location: Idaho Oddometer: 174	Never hurts to double check the electrical side. Usually though it seems electrical maladies aren't so predictable and repeatable. I had an intermittent issue with a stator that had me convinced it was carburetor problems. I had been battling previous owner neglect and finding white crusties from dried fuel occasionally collecting in the the fuel bowl and getting sucked into a main jet on high flow. Luckily I have XR carbs and could just unscrew the nut off the bottom of the float bowl and dump it out. I cleaned and flushed the tank but still seemed to act up now and again, curiously after a wheelie more often than not, I figured I was stirring up muck in the tank. I would set the front end back down and notice reduced power, very much like one carb's main jet choking on a hairball. It would run but just at half power. Sometimes it would pass on it's own, but more likely I would stop at first opportunity and pull the right main jet cover and dump it out noticing that I really didn't see much for chunks there, but it always worked. I figured I would eventually get all the crap worked though bit by bit. I was curious why always the right side cured it and never had to pull the left. One day sitting at a stoplight after having been far out of town, the engine shut off like someone had turned off the key. Fortunately I was only about a block from the shop so I could push it from there. I found the stator had failed so I ordered up a Ricky and put it in, a modification I was planning anyway if it gave me any lip. The bike fired right up first kick after the new stator and I also noticed easier starting in general from that point on, so it was apparently weak and I didn't know it. From that day forward my mysterious carburetor drop out problem completely disappeared too. I still wonder to this day how it was triggered by a wheelstand or heavy load, and how pulling the main jet cover and dumping it seemed to revive it. I can only imagine the load broke it down, and the ritual of pulling the cover allowed enough cooling time to recover. My Ricky stator has failed once too since then, but it died on the charge coil side of it that time and didn't make me walk, or cause any running problems. It had lasted a long time, so I bought another Ricky without hesitation and put it in. I figured it had gone 20,000 miles which was farther than the original so it was the obvious choice. Also after contacting Ricky they offered to repair or replace it free of charge. I still need to send it in to them and have a spare on the shelf just in case.