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Old 02-07-2013, 08:31 PM   #286
Gryphon12
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I didn't mean to criticize the SXV/RXV. It / they are great motorcycles. I really wanted one until I read about the 1st year problems. Aprilia addressed most of those issues in subsequent years. I'm just not enough of a mechanic to maintain one on my own, or I would have one (SXV 4.5) in my garage. I like race bikes!
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:09 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
I didn't mean to criticize the SXV/RXV. It / they are great motorcycles. I really wanted one until I read about the 1st year problems. Aprilia addressed most of those issues in subsequent years. I'm just not enough of a mechanic to maintain one on my own, or I would have one (SXV 4.5) in my garage. I like race bikes!
They were great bikes when they were running
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:52 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Bubba Bauer View Post
So intresting to see how much KTM dominates the US mind (at least through this posts)

In OZ Yamaha sold almost as much WR450F-s ALONE as all the KTM EXC-s combined.

http://www.fcai.com.au/motorcycles/a...market-in-2012

BUT I agree I`m sick and tired of the big4 not doing anything other than leading sales lists and lining their pockets so it seams only 1 choice left.
that's because the WR comes street legal in OZ. for much of the US you can't tag a WR but you can certain KTMs...thus they sell more.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:55 PM   #289
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The smaller manufacturers dont have to meet the same regulations. Id still rather go more common [ japanese] and uncork/modify. Not a problem if you know what you are doing.
at what point does KTM become a larger MFG (and that easy tagging goes away) ? they are increasing sales every year.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:08 PM   #290
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Is there any chance that KTM will limit the number of models / units sold in the USA to protect that status? and/or keep the prices up? (Not that there seems to be any limit to the numbers of buyers willing to pay the going rate for a KTM of any class.)
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:11 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by eakins View Post
at what point does KTM become a larger MFG (and that easy tagging goes away) ? they are increasing sales every year.
I'm wondering that myself
BMW also has a BIG advantage in the sportbike category...their S1000RR has over 20hp more than the next best bike in the U.S., the ZX10....and kawi purposely nuetered the 10 for the U.S. market. A simple ecu reflash and it gains 20+hp.
Of course in other world markets it comes from the factory just as strong as the BMW

Honestly I think the U.S. has imposed so many rules on the japanese makers that they've given up on some market segments, and just decided to sell more of those bikes in other parts of the world. There's enough emerging buying markets around the world that they really don't need us anymore.....we're buying less, and the rest of the world is buying more. Thank you EPA
Pretty soon all we'll have here for sale from the japanese will be cruisers, tourers, and if were lucky some mx bikes

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Originally Posted by Gryphon12 View Post
Is there any chance that KTM will limit the number of models / units sold in the USA to protect that status? and/or keep the prices up? (Not that there seems to be any limit to the numbers of buyers willing to pay the going rate for a KTM of any class.)
I would suspect that might already be happening
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:05 AM   #292
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at what point does KTM become a larger MFG (and that easy tagging goes away) ? they are increasing sales every year.
AFAIK they aren't and haven't been for a while. The actual motorcycle rule is combined US sales in a model year of 3000 or fewer highway vehicles and less than 500 employees worldwide. KTM sells about 12,000 vehicles per year in the US and topped out around 20,000 before the crash. Even if less than 3000 of those were EXC's, 690's and Dukes, which is doubtful, they still have over 1500 employees. The actual text from the actual EPA document:


The flexibilities described below will be available for small entities with U.S. highway motorcycle annual sales of fewer than 3,000 units per model year (combined Class I, II, and III motorcycles) and fewer than 500 employees worldwide.

Enjoy:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2004.../html/04-6.htm
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:56 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
KTM sells about 12,000 vehicles per year in the US and topped out around 20,000 before the crash. The actual text from the actual EPA document:

The flexibilities described below will be available for small entities with U.S. highway motorcycle annual sales of fewer than 3,000 units per model year (combined Class I, II, and III motorcycles) and fewer than 500 employees worldwide.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2004.../html/04-6.htm
That is actual text from an actual EPA document, but it is a nine-year old document, it is not the only EPA document, and the rules applying to KTM may not be in writing, for all we know. Look at the octopus on the side of the XR650L and the FI and catalytic converter on the WR250R, and then look at a KTM EXC from 2008 and tell me they're playing by the same rules. I say no.

It could be as simple as KTM being granted an exception because they convinced the EPA that reduced emissions were on the way. I say enjoy it while you can.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:26 PM   #294
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The small volume manufacturer rules did not change with the 2008 EPA changes. But small volume manufacturers did have to meet the same evaporative standards starting that year which leveled the playing field a bit between large and small. Small companies can apply for hardship. But, as I said, KTM has not met that standard for years.

Personally, I believe it is more differences in corporate cultures than the EPA playing favorites. The Japanese companies are simply very cautious. There are reasons why all of their bikes across every market segment are so similar and so wildly different than European bikes across those same market segments. They don't take chances.

How long has it taken Japanese companies to get on board with traction control on street bikes compared to European companies? Yes they are finally doing it but years after European companies. That didn't have anything to do with the EPA or DOT. That was all about a very cautious and very product liability focused corporate culture.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:32 PM   #295
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I miss Soichiro Honda more every day. The Japanese have no idea what they have lost, Honda perhaps most of all.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:22 PM   #296
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I miss Soichiro Honda more every day. The Japanese have no idea what they have lost, Honda perhaps most of all.
I agree. Back in his day they used to introduce exciting new models every year. CBX as an example. Did you see their latest exciting offering introduced today?

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=861296&page=4
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:16 PM   #297
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Yeah before the rxv I had almost bought the drz 400S ,I figured by the time i was done modding the suzi out Id be up to the price of a ktm or Ape so I bought the ape.Ive had the fuel pump go,it costed me 400 bucks it was out of warranty and the 1st race I entered bike ran fine,went to go to the A class since I got there late and missed the C and b classes,Bike started fine 10 minutes before the race was to go off I went to warm it up it barely started,revved the piss out of it,it sputtered went 50 feet and died I couldnt get it restarted and never made it to the line or even one lap,didnt have one tool on me thinking this new bike w 150 miles could go 30 laps.I was pissed I drove 200 miles round trip and spent over 100 bucks in fuel, food and race fees to ride an enduro I never got to even participate in.I called buddy and told him And said bike quit ,Why can the big 4 make a bike that after 20 years it could be a rat bike but still starts on 2 kicks ,this damn exotic is brand new and doesnt even run WTH!.Ive never gone back for another enduro and even tho bike now rips and I got it mapped out right, I still have in back of mind if this turd ever blows up I will be stuck w 1 hell of an expensive frame.AF1 in texas has an engine for it,the cost close to 7 grand
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:21 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by montesa_vr View Post
That is actual text from an actual EPA document, but it is a nine-year old document, it is not the only EPA document, and the rules applying to KTM may not be in writing, for all we know. Look at the octopus on the side of the XR650L and the FI and catalytic converter on the WR250R, and then look at a KTM EXC from 2008 and tell me they're playing by the same rules. I say no.

It could be as simple as KTM being granted an exception because they convinced the EPA that reduced emissions were on the way. I say enjoy it while you can.
I can tell you for a fact that my 2007 EXC was seriously restricted, I had to cut the internal plumbing in the exhaust, remove the EPA plumbing, seriously rejet the bike, and re-gear the bike 2 down in the front and 5 up on the back. My 2008 690 was very much in line EPA wise with any Jap bike I have from that same time complete with a catalytic converter, evap canisters, and other restrictive plumbing and electronics and fuel mapping. So all this talk about EPA exceptions is a bunch of bullshit.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:55 PM   #299
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I can tell you for a fact that my 2007 EXC was seriously restricted, I had to cut the internal plumbing in the exhaust, remove the EPA plumbing, seriously rejet the bike, and re-gear the bike 2 down in the front and 5 up on the back. My 2008 690 was very much in line EPA wise with any Jap bike I have from that same time complete with a catalytic converter, evap canisters, and other restrictive plumbing and electronics and fuel mapping. So all this talk about EPA exceptions is a bunch of bullshit.
I think the arguement was that the European bikes arent restricted the same as the Japanese bikes according to people who dont actually know anything about motorcycles. Like I always say. Good credit does not make you a motorcyclist.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:05 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Albie View Post
I can tell you for a fact that my 2007 EXC was seriously restricted, I had to cut the internal plumbing in the exhaust, remove the EPA plumbing, seriously rejet the bike, and re-gear the bike 2 down in the front and 5 up on the back. My 2008 690 was very much in line EPA wise with any Jap bike I have from that same time complete with a catalytic converter, evap canisters, and other restrictive plumbing and electronics and fuel mapping. So all this talk about EPA exceptions is a bunch of bullshit.
+1

Everyone knows that a brand-new off-the-floor Euro bike is choked to uselessness. It needs the mods you mentioned.

If I recall correctly, most European countries have stricter emission requirements than the USA, which is stricter than South America.
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