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Old 01-31-2013, 01:48 PM   #1
Jonny042 OP
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GG to go FI?

From todotrial today: http://www.todotrial.com/ttactual/in...arcototal.htm?

Here is the company apparently responsible: http://xiurdi.com/ but it's a bit hard to tell if this is a fact, or a rumor, or what. Since OSSA and Gas Gas are now owned by the same parent company it's not terribly surprising.

Translation below:

The evolution of dirt bikes must necessarily pass through the incorporation of electronic injection systems? Probably yes, is the conclusion we draw for more than 10 years when interviewed for Todotrial the then Secretary General of ACEM, José Franqueira (see here).

The next brand that seems will join technology is Gas Gas injection, which already has a system designed by Xiu-rdi engineering that would couple directly to the current Pro engine system, which you can see in the attached picture, is made Fully CNC machined aluminum, incorporating an injection module, control unit, possibility of multiple mappings, fuel tank with integrated pump, etc. Everything is now ready for mounting in a Gas Gas Pro and not only improve emissions but to prevent problems carburetion systems, such as altitude or humidity decompensation.

4-stroke engines in the trial have not had the desired result or are imposed as intended, which also Todotrial anticipated. But the trial must overcome a series of demands of today's society to achieve general recognition of this and the government, in order to obtain less restrictive legislation and the adoption of trial areas in each municipality.

These requirements have the challenge of doing trial bike ever greener and cleaner. Something which in itself has enough earned a dirt bike, because its consumption is very small compared to other bikes off road, their sound is low and very low weight, which along with its special tires ecological and low pressure them, makes the impact it has on the ground is ridiculous and comparable to that of an animal middleweight.

The current regulations trialeras comply with Euro 2, but we must go further and as was said in that interview, the choice is 4T or direct injection, are already way ahead of Montesa and Ossa, with an engine in 4Q 2T first case and the second. Now it seems that it will join Gas Gas, the future of the trial today is defined by making it more friendly to the environment and support, also looking for new users and most versatile bikes.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:17 PM   #2
Sting32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny042 View Post
From todotrial today: http://www.todotrial.com/ttactual/in...arcototal.htm?

Here is the company apparently responsible: http://xiurdi.com/ but it's a bit hard to tell if this is a fact, or a rumor, or what. Since OSSA and Gas Gas are now owned by the same parent company it's not terribly surprising.

Translation below: (snip).
I freaking hope not, riding the OSSA was disapointing, for me at least. course I was used to a quick bike, the 2010 raga I had at the same time I got to ride the then stock, 4 week old OSSA.

Plus then you have to buy a computer, the cable, and programs to modify program for fuel delivery... Screw that.

Tuning a carb is not that hard comparatively, and cheap too.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:36 PM   #3
DerViking
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I have hopes for the concept, but am inclined to agree. The Ossa wasn't very impressive.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:57 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by DerViking View Post
I have hopes for the concept, but am inclined to agree. The Ossa wasn't very impressive.
I was in a hurry when I posted. I hear the mapping that my buddy got, changed the way it ran by a lot, and he bought all the stuff to try programs. I got to ride it again just in october.

But without anyone thinking I am wine-ing this is just My feeling. When you get used to a bike, like I have, and I have been on Raga models of gasgas, that I have NOT tuned to pipey hot like pro's ride... Mine are stock, usually have 1 or 2 years wear from an Amature rider before I get it, the 2011 I have now had less than a year.

1st ride: I felt that the Ossa stumbles as I gassed like I would on my bike(s). Im not exaggerating much, I was nervous about even rubbing someone else's bike with my boot let alone falling down with it. when I gassed it I was braced like I would be on my Raga, I almost went over the bars, the way it stumbled. It pulled like a tractor though when I got used to it just a little (only rode it for 5/10 minutes or so)

Next Ride, twins sister shipped bike, but this is the guy that can play with mappings, his Ossa is forsale on AVTAtrials.com website. I have to say, that the bike's tune, was a lot better, still slower, IMHO maybe, but again I was not wanting to ride someone's nice and new and shiney bike and dare hurt it you know.

I would buy one, I think, but the idea of me having to get a computer and all that, even though I'm in IT as a career, bugs me a little.

Why does it bug me? well it is like my cellphone, I can flash roms (entire OPERATING Software sets for a given Smart phones out there for me to use) but I am 100% at the Mercy of the highly talented 15-25 year old programmers. If they don't like a feature I dearly use or enjoy, guess what? Nope, that feature is GONE, or not supported and can be buggy. Secondly, bricking a phone that I should have gone and updated with a new one, is less scary than bricking a new one. Google bricking smartphone if you dont know what that is.

I could try to learn to do what they do, but then again I don't manufacture my own trials tires either, I like my Michelins. Even if I am a quirky dork.

Sting32 screwed with this post 02-01-2013 at 10:02 AM
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:46 AM   #5
Jonny042 OP
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Ossa vs. Gas Gas

I've ridden an Ossa too, I was excited to try it but ended up a little unimpressed. Just felt like the spark plug was 5 or 6 years old. Hard to start, no power, etc. and always a bit flat.

Fuel injection controls, well, fuel. Power, and the way it is delivered, is as much about air and exhaust as anything else and I would guess Gas Gas will be starting with a much better package, and that the Ossa is no way representative of what GG might deliver.

At least it's something to talk about other than the coming rules changes by the FIM!
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:26 AM   #6
laser17
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Did that Spanish translation suggest a DI based motor is coming? Q4? Not sure what is real on the DI development vs what was just mentioned in the TODO article they refer to.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:56 PM   #7
Jonny042 OP
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Direct Injection

Quote:
Originally Posted by laser17 View Post
Did that Spanish translation suggest a DI based motor is coming? Q4? Not sure what is real on the DI development vs what was just mentioned in the TODO article they refer to.
I think it must be a pipe dream/design exercise at this point. The motor in the picture looks suspiciously like an ossa motor with the jug turned 180 degrees.

Direct Injection doesn't necessarily work on 2T without additional complication because the fuel doesn't then carry the oil via the crankcase, thus lubing the working parts of the engine - so this would more likely be a conventional injection system with a throttle body and injector replacing the carb. The advantage of the injector is that instead of a steady stream of fuel, it can be timed so that less unburnt fuel gets out the exhaust prior to compression.

The injector provides just the right amount of fuel, at just the right time, and less unburnt mix enters the atmosphere. The resulting combustion should be cleaner and more efficient.

Electronics and computers being what they are, it shouldn't be long before the hardware necessary for this is as cheap, smaller, lighter, and more reliable than a carburetor. A matter of time, really.
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Old 02-01-2013, 03:50 PM   #8
2whlrcr
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The FI works great on my KTM 350.
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Old 02-04-2013, 07:39 PM   #9
AteamNM
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Fuel pumps bouncing around for extended periods have been known to catastrophically fail in the middle of nowhere Not saying that a reliable fuel pump can't be installed like off a Volkswagen. But the FI world will take a long time (a few seasons) to work out bugs. Then the mini trail side PC and trail side circuit board testing and mapping, well this could just be an electronics nirvana. But then when things are dialed in with FI, one would never have to jet again, never asking did you move the clip down to notches, from the top right? Your using a 105? Ute cups were always fun jetting and polling. That would all go away I reckon.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:24 AM   #10
Sting32
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Originally Posted by AteamNM View Post
Fuel pumps bouncing around for extended periods have been known to catastrophically fail in the middle of nowhere Not saying that a reliable fuel pump can't be installed like off a Volkswagen. But the FI world will take a long time (a few seasons) to work out bugs. Then the mini trail side PC and trail side circuit board testing and mapping, well this could just be an electronics nirvana. But then when things are dialed in with FI, one would never have to jet again, never asking did you move the clip down to notches, from the top right? Your using a 105? Ute cups were always fun jetting and polling. That would all go away I reckon.
Ida know if it goes away, lol. how long until these guys riding twinshocks and older bikes, are through? LOL. Sad part will be, that the top teams and engineers will not have to fiddle with it, so there would no LONGER really be any testing and stuff that gets passed down. They'd just note which program you need to run, if you know what I mean. all of us pre FI would have to use last known good settings, which could be a pain, since maybe next year big event, is at a totally different location...
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:06 AM   #11
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Talk about fried & fused points, and that little keyway that always fell off in the dirt. Or breaking the belt on your mini bike's torque converter. My dad used panty hose to get me going for the day when it broke but the bike rode like it had a dragging clutch.

Oh back in the day I tell ya.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:44 PM   #12
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My dad used panty hose to get me going for the day
Wait. Whut?
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:31 AM   #13
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The mini bike had a torque converter kind of thing. A pulley would expand creating more torque. The belt that could sort of stretch - broke. He tied panty hose up tight and it sort of worked, took a bit to get going and then the bike was able to go up and down the road. This was in 1968 okay.
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