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Old 02-08-2013, 03:58 PM   #16
StuartV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KsFolly View Post
I'm glad I'm not alone. I find it hard to cancel without affecting throttle. Getting around to adjusting.

K
Exactly. I am as "adjusted" as I'm going to get. "Adjusting" is not a problem for me. My street (sport)bike and race bike have reversed shift pattern (1 up, 5 down). My GS and KTM dirt bike have standard shift. I switch around between bikes all the time and have no problem shifting the right way for the bike I'm on.

My problem is not adjusting to the way the BMW signal switches work. It's that having to use my RIGHT hand to operate the right turn signal and the cancel button, while also modulating the throttle and brakes (and steering) is a design that is simply inferior to having a turn signal/ cancel switch like are standard on pretty much all modern Japanese bikes. Operating the clutch is an intermittent activity. Controlling the throttle is a continuous activity. It's easy to fit switch operation in between clutch operations so you're not trying to do them both with one hand at the same time. But, you can NEVER fit in turn signal or cancel operations with the right hand to a time when the right hand is doing nothing else.

It's not that you can't cancel the signal and work the throttle and brake all at the same time. It's just that it's harder to do it smoothly than using the left hand for all turn signal operations. And harder means it's less safe. It uses up more of your $1 worth of concentration. Not a problem MOST of the time. But, maximizing safety means eliminating issues, when you can, that only affect you even a very small part of the time.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:12 PM   #17
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartV View Post
I have an '09 GS. Do my turn signals self-cancel?? Even after just signaling for and then completing a lane change?
.2 KM moving. They won't cancel sitting still.

Jim
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:13 PM   #18
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuartV View Post
Exactly. I am as "adjusted" as I'm going to get. "Adjusting" is not a problem for me. My street (sport)bike and race bike have reversed shift pattern (1 up, 5 down). My GS and KTM dirt bike have standard shift. I switch around between bikes all the time and have no problem shifting the right way for the bike I'm on.

My problem is not adjusting to the way the BMW signal switches work. It's that having to use my RIGHT hand to operate the right turn signal and the cancel button, while also modulating the throttle and brakes (and steering) is a design that is simply inferior to having a turn signal/ cancel switch like are standard on pretty much all modern Japanese bikes. Operating the clutch is an intermittent activity. Controlling the throttle is a continuous activity. It's easy to fit switch operation in between clutch operations so you're not trying to do them both with one hand at the same time. But, you can NEVER fit in turn signal or cancel operations with the right hand to a time when the right hand is doing nothing else.

It's not that you can't cancel the signal and work the throttle and brake all at the same time. It's just that it's harder to do it smoothly than using the left hand for all turn signal operations. And harder means it's less safe. It uses up more of your $1 worth of concentration. Not a problem MOST of the time. But, maximizing safety means eliminating issues, when you can, that only affect you even a very small part of the time.
Harley has a similar set-up. If they can do it you should be able to!

Jim
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:35 PM   #19
monkeythumpa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qman8 View Post
The horn and cancel buttons are COMPLETELY wrong for smooth control and safety, as noted.
I thought I would get used to it but I have not. From the perspective of a comparative physiologist, the motion of using the side of your thumb to hit a switch is anatomically opposed (no pun intended) to everything we have trained our thumbs to do for millions of years. Our opposable thumbs evolved to keep things in our hands, to help with grip. As our brain function improved we developed fine motor skills to use the tip of our thumb to hold more delicate objects. Our thumbs are good at pressing and can modulate between mashing pressure to very delicate pressure. Thumbs are good for pressing with great precision and strength, ask any gamer. Our thumbs as well as the rest of our fingers, by design, don't utilise the sides very much. With the exception of the relatively recent (on an evolutionary timeline) popularity of holding cigarettes, we do not purposely use the sides of our fingers or thumb for much.

Until we need to honk the horn on a BMW. In a panic situation I have to negotiate my (non-dominant) thumb unnaturally to activate the horn. It is easier to buzz the offending party and flip the bird. Maybe lefties have it easier in this case. Give me back a horn I can mash!!!
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
I have issues with the standard switch gear on most bikes. I am so used to the BMW switch gear that it is hard to use regular gear. It is a bummer BMW went to the cheaper style on the new Wethead and other bikes.

Jim
It's even more annoying if you have the wunderwheel or whatever its called. Trying to activate the signals and you hit the wheel.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:11 PM   #21
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeythumpa View Post

Until we need to honk the horn on a BMW. In a panic situation I have to negotiate my (non-dominant) thumb unnaturally to activate the horn. It is easier to buzz the offending party and flip the bird. Maybe lefties have it easier in this case. Give me back a horn I can mash!!!
I had the same problem with the standard switchgear after years of riding BMW. I got over it about as fast as I adapted to the BMW gear.

Thing is, in a panic situation, you should not be thinking about the horn, you should be thinking about saving your ass!

Jim
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:34 AM   #22
KsFolly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post

Thing is, in a panic situation, you should not be thinking about the horn, you should be thinking about saving your ass!

Jim
You got me started. I'm not aiming this at monkey thumper but at the zillions of drivers in America who seem to use the horn first and the brakes fifth or sixth. And perhaps their brain last.

K

End of soapbox rant. Please ignore. Happy now.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:09 AM   #23
lhendrik
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This problem will self correct when you crash into the back of an 18 wheeler while you worry about the switch positioning.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
Thing is, in a panic situation, you should not be thinking about the horn, you should be thinking about saving your ass
That there's a big no shitter! I've never hit the horn and had it change anybodies mind that I recall, I've always wound up taking evasive action, I rarely bother with the horn any more.

I also have zero issues with the turn signal operation on the BMW and I have a Yamaha I ride as well, I think that I actually prefer the BMW combination switches.
If you are having to look down to see what button(s) to push than you need to spend more time getting familiar with your bike, operating turn signals should be intuitive and if you can't get there than you need to make whatever adjustments necessary so you can.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:03 AM   #25
slartidbartfast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTEVENS View Post
Yes I am still a noob to the GSA, but I have ridden it almost a thousand miles so far and I do not like the positioning of the handlebar switch gear. It seems to me that the horn and blinker switches are too low, almost hidden from my perched view, I am 6'4" so maybe thats it. Wondering about such things. I am getting better at shifting as well LOL. D.
You need to be able to find them immediately by feel so visibility is a non-issue.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:02 PM   #26
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I rode a vstrom for many years and switched to the gs 6 months ago, after 10k on the bike i still cant get used to the controls and there too low for me as well at 5'9". i've pretty much stopped using them except for when i have to. hand signals and looking over my shoulder work better for me. while the setup seems like it would be more intuitive once your used to it, the retraining of my heavily abused neural network wont seem to happen quickly. also noticed i still hit the left signal to cancel when i'm not thinking about it, so i'm "that guy" riding along with the blinker on until I notice it on my dash and then almost crash on the freeway trying to find the cancel button.
Another note why do they but the horn right where it hits your tank bag? Even the BMW ones that are made for the bike, seems like a good spot for that wonderful German over engineering.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funinthesun View Post
I rode a vstrom for many years and switched to the gs 6 months ago, after 10k on the bike i still cant get used to the controls and there too low for me as well at 5'9". i've pretty much stopped using them except for when i have to. hand signals and looking over my shoulder work better for me. while the setup seems like it would be more intuitive once your used to it, the retraining of my heavily abused neural network wont seem to happen quickly. also noticed i still hit the left signal to cancel when i'm not thinking about it, so i'm "that guy" riding along with the blinker on until I notice it on my dash and then almost crash on the freeway trying to find the cancel button.
Another note why do they but the horn right where it hits your tank bag? Even the BMW ones that are made for the bike, seems like a good spot for that wonderful German over engineering.
Jeebus H. Key..rhist...you almost crash remembering "right thumb.."?? I hope to hell you park that thing before you DO hurt someone while trying to touch a simple switch, that's always in the same place..

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Old 02-09-2013, 03:40 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by StuartV View Post
Exactly. I am as "adjusted" as I'm going to get. "Adjusting" is not a problem for me. My street (sport)bike and race bike have reversed shift pattern (1 up, 5 down). My GS and KTM dirt bike have standard shift. I switch around between bikes all the time and have no problem shifting the right way for the bike I'm on.

My problem is not adjusting to the way the BMW signal switches work. It's that having to use my RIGHT hand to operate the right turn signal and the cancel button, while also modulating the throttle and brakes (and steering) is a design that is simply inferior to having a turn signal/ cancel switch like are standard on pretty much all modern Japanese bikes. Operating the clutch is an intermittent activity. Controlling the throttle is a continuous activity. It's easy to fit switch operation in between clutch operations so you're not trying to do them both with one hand at the same time. But, you can NEVER fit in turn signal or cancel operations with the right hand to a time when the right hand is doing nothing else.

It's not that you can't cancel the signal and work the throttle and brake all at the same time. It's just that it's harder to do it smoothly than using the left hand for all turn signal operations. And harder means it's less safe. It uses up more of your $1 worth of concentration. Not a problem MOST of the time. But, maximizing safety means eliminating issues, when you can, that only affect you even a very small part of the time.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I can't stand the BMW switches either. I've ridden a friend's BMW for hundreds of miles and couldn't get used to the switchgear. In fact, the awkward switchgear has made me think twice about buying a GS at all. Glad they finally decided to change it.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:07 PM   #29
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I rode around town Friday and just cant get my thumb to hit signal cancel button without moving my hand away from its position on throttle. Maybe I have short thumbs, but I cant seem to hit the button without moving my hand. As far as the horn, I only use it to wave at people or say hello to someone. Most of my city driving is in truck, I rarely ride with my GSA in heavy traffic. Around here signalling is optional, as well as stopping at red lights and stop signs, and yielding to right of way, and........... Border town derby. D.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:56 AM   #30
StuartV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstevens View Post
i ... Just cant get my thumb to hit signal cancel button without moving my hand away from its position on throttle.
+1.
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