ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Old's Cool > Airheads
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-30-2013, 10:55 AM   #16
Houseoffubar
fine beer sampler
 
Houseoffubar's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Bothell, Washington
Oddometer: 1,740
Don't know myself, but Eliteless installed one, on his /5, and said the spark was visibly brighter, when checking laying on the head.
__________________
1978 R100/7 Build thread 1915 Boardtrack racer replica (Electric Powered) Lots of bicycles
Hemp: The strongest natural fiber in the world, and the most nutritious plant on earth.....why is this illegal again?
Houseoffubar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 11:54 AM   #17
Bill Harris
Confirmed Curmudgeon
 
Bill Harris's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: backwoods Alabama
Oddometer: 4,945
Outdated Sigline. :)

Or is it a Taunt???? :(

--Bill
__________________
'73 R60/5 Toaster
Bill Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 04:30 PM   #18
PaulRS
Dutch fool
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Holland, land of tulips and wooden shoes
Oddometer: 701
Have one on my Twin-spark R90.

Point ignition, booster and 2 dual Dyna coils.
No more sparking over the points, fatter spark over the plugs, starts on the first push on the button, every time.

Paul.
__________________
Geht net, gibbet net.
PaulRS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 07:00 AM   #19
Bigrider
Living the Legend
 
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: 76 R90/6, 84 R80RT, 84 R100RS
Oddometer: 15
Any pictures on installation of the Velleman Ignition Kit?
Dave H
San Antonio, TX
Bigrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 09:53 AM   #20
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 7,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigrider View Post
Any pictures on installation of the Velleman Ignition Kit?
Dave H
San Antonio, TX
Haven't received it yet. It may be in the mail later today or tomorrow. I'll let you know what the directions look like and take a pic of the kit maybe.

Charlie
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, privatejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 01:43 PM   #21
Other Bob
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Other Bob's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Detroit 'burbs
Oddometer: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by disston View Post
*** I'll let you know what the directions look like and take a pic of the kit maybe. Charlie
Installation instructions, from the Velleman site -

http://www.vellemanusa.com/downloads/0/illustrated/illustrated_assembly_manual_k2543.pdf


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris
*** the "magnetic saturation" of the ignition coil is set by the point gap or the dwell. Very critical parameter in getting a "hot spark". The "dwell" or magnetic saturation of the coilis achieved electronically in a Dyna booster and is independent of the point gap.
If I understand Bill (and the Velleman instructions) correctly, it looks like the Dynabooster and/or Velleman unit simply replace the traditional condensor but are more efficient at saturating/exciting the coil to a higher output without burning the breaker points in the process? Or, are they really just a cheap way of converting the old inductive-discharge coil (IDI) to a capacitor-discharge ignition (CDI)?

(I know, it's Wikipedia, but FWIW there's a comment here on why there is an improvement in breaker point life, among other advantages) -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_discharge_ignition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_coil

Bob
Other Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 04:48 PM   #22
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 7,340
Hey, thanks for the directions. Looks like the radio receiver I was supposed to build when I was in High School but I never did. I find this sort of thing happens to me all the time that stuff from my childhood comes back to haunt me.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, privatejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 10:06 PM   #23
chasemotorman
Adventurer
 
chasemotorman's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: The Rose City
Oddometer: 23
Would you try one if it was free?

I've followed this thread, and many of you said the cost of the booster wasn't worth the performance gain. But what if there was no cost? I found a Dyna III on a project bike. Do these ever go bad, or need to be tested to make sure they still work? I would probably lean towards the less complexity argument, but those I have spoken to about it all leave their old ignition in place, in the (unlikely?) event one of these did fail. I am curious enough to try it, if I can figure out the installation. On an R100S, BTW.
chasemotorman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 11:32 PM   #24
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 7,340
You have brought up a different subject. The original subject of this thread is the use of what is known as the "Booster". These are sometimes called CDI or Capacitor Discharge Ignitions. They were common in the late Sixties and Seventies Hot Rod market. The Booster is something added to the standard ignition points ignition. It is wired into the OEM circuit. While the original ignition points are kept in place their job becomes easier and the parts last longer.

The Dyna III is an electronic ignition conversion unit. It does not keep the ignition points in place. It uses a different form of electronics to trigger the unit. This is usually a Hall sensor. The Hall sensor is grafted onto the advance unit usually rendering it useless at any future date should there be any desire to return to the OEM set up. The ignition points and the ignition points plate are not used at all. They will not be on the bike if needed for a return to OEM ignition.

To answer your question, "Do they ever go bad?" Yes. The problem with a Dyna III when it has stopped working is, is it the amplifier or is it the Hall sensor? Repair is most times a replacement of the entire unit. If this problem occurs on the road and far for repair facilities there is very little likelihood of a return to OEM ignition to get the bike running again. If you have a failure of a Dyna III ignition you need a pick up truck to get back to civilization.

This is the crux of the matter. The modification of a points ignition. You have several choices. 1...is the conversion of the points ignition to a modern total electronics set up that does not keep any of the OEM parts in place and should there be a need to convert back to OEM ignition will be almost impossible. Or 2...the addition of a Booster that keeps the ignition points and other parts in place and should there be a need to convert back to OEM ignition this can be done by moving a couple of wires.

I like the idea of a Booster added to my 1975 BMW OEM ignition. I will not convert the bike to a Dyna III unit. If you were given one of these and wish to use it you may get many years of trouble free service from it but I would stock pile the parts needed to replace it for the day when this is needed because I think it's one of those things that's a matter of "when" not a matter of "if".
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, privatejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 05:11 AM   #25
chasbmw
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Bath Uk
Oddometer: 1,525
Having run electronic ignitions on Nortons and BMWs since the early 70s I have yet to be convinced about the inherent unreliability of electronic ignition..........

With points ignition, assuming that you have set it up correctly, it will then drift off optimum as time goes on, the mechanical advance and retard is a crude device and much better ignition curves can be obtained using a fully electronic ignition, etc etc. crankshaft mounted ignitions can enable you to retain a back up ignition if you wish.
__________________
Charles
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...ps6e61ae2e.jpg
R90s 1070 replica, R90/6
1971 Commando Fastback
chasbmw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 10:53 AM   #26
chasemotorman
Adventurer
 
chasemotorman's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: The Rose City
Oddometer: 23
Thanks for the clarification

Dyna booster != Dyna III. That goes a long way to describe why the installation instructions weren't what I expect.
chasemotorman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 11:41 AM   #27
headtube OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
headtube's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto
Oddometer: 201
Thanks all for your opinions. I will stay with the points only and see how long they last. Besides... they're cheap to replace.
__________________
WTB... peanut valve covers in good nick.
headtube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2013, 08:39 PM   #28
DaveBall
Beastly Adventurer
 
DaveBall's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Vancouver Island
Oddometer: 1,144
Excellent decision. Just brilliant I tell you.
DaveBall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 12:57 AM   #29
disston
ShadeTreeExpert
 
disston's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Silver Spring, Md
Oddometer: 7,340
I received my Velleman ignition kit yesterday. The directions are confusing and there will be a few extra small parts needed for the connection to the bike. I also have not decided if I will mount this with or without putting it in a small box. Over all it does look like it is intended to be, something that can be built and added to the standard ignition system of most any internal combustion engine making it more reliable and efficient.

Because this is a kit and not a finished box it is not a plug and play system such as the Dynatek Booster. It was less than half the price though.

I will start another thread about this build and give more concise directions hopefully than those published by Velleman.
__________________
.
Never memorize something you can look up.
---Albert Einstein

Pay your debt, privatejohn.http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=949341
disston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 08:05 AM   #30
190e
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Oddometer: 279
Velleman Ignition Kit

Just signed up so I can throw my 2 cents on this.

I installed a Velleman Ignition kit 5 years back. It cost 10 and has been 100% reliable. Building the kit is easy, finding a suitable box less so. I mounted the unit under the tank just forward of the rear coil so as to keep the cables as short as possible. I found the supplied heat sink took up too much space and substituted a larger ribbed alloy plate as the cover for a shallow plastic box. My unit runs very cool so a large fancy heat sink mustn't have been necessary. If you haven't built it yet I would consider drilling out the cable connection holes on the circuit board so a decent gauge of wire can be used to minimise volt drop. I kept the original wiring spade connections stock so that if the unit should fail a return to normal points is easy at the side of the road. Just need to carry the original condenser.

I believe a points ignition amplifier does give some improvement in the spark particularly at low revs due to the cleaner faster switching of the coils.

The other big plus is my new set of OEM points is lasting a very long time with only minor wear on the heel. Maintaining the correct stock points gap is still important though as the unit has no inbuilt dwell control.

Not a great picture but you get the idea.

190e screwed with this post 02-21-2013 at 08:16 AM
190e is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014