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Old 02-14-2013, 06:57 PM   #1291
bikerfish
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Originally Posted by mike54 View Post
I don't think anybody is denigrating club level racing. It's just that I expect to see a difference between club level racing and AMA racing. Like I expect to see a difference between HS base ball and college level base ball and professional base ball. Some of the HS player are full of heart and have a ton of talent. It's more fun to watch them rise to a level where they're playing against equal talent.

There's some good AMA racers but the field has gotten so thin these last few years and there's a lot of talent sitting on the bench. It's not really that entertaining any more. Participation at the club level isn't what it once was either. Entries are down. I blame that on the lackluster performance of AMA.
when there is no carrot to chase, there won't be many rabbits.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:02 PM   #1292
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Originally Posted by bikerfish View Post
when there is no carrot to chase, there won't be many rabbits.


I worked corners at Sears Point in the late 80s early 90s. The 600cc novice class was 2 wave starts. Sometimes I ask myself, 'what happened?"
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #1293
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Originally Posted by mike54 View Post


I worked corners at Sears Point in the late 80s early 90s. The 600cc novice class was 2 wave starts. Sometimes I ask myself, 'what happened?"
Oh Christ. Its the economy affecting club racing. It has nothing to do with AMA Pro Racing. Club racing is a lot more expensive and fewer people have the means. 600 SS bikes are over $10,000 to buy and you can't even get one race weekend out a set of tires. Suspension is way more expensive. I raced AFM in the late '90s during the dot.com boom and the paddock was jammed. Over 1000 race entries per weekend. 600 Production and 600 Superbike would have full grids and wait lists over 20 deep every weekend. Was never the same after the dot.com crash even during 2004-2008. There is a huge gap between club racing and AMA Pro and its foolish to call it club racing.



Back on topic. Why is Dorna jerking around Suzuki about returing to MotoGP? Dorna wants a long commitment but won't commit to a long term rules package. Why should a large manufacturer have to jump through hoops to compete?
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #1294
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Indy motogp draws a decent crowd, though it should be bigger, given the proximity to large population areas and the fact that the track can handle HUGE crowds..
Yeah I've flown down twice for Indy GP/Mile and last time was the endurocross too. Loved it!
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Old 02-15-2013, 12:17 AM   #1295
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Oh Christ. Its the economy affecting club racing. It has nothing to do with AMA Pro Racing. Club racing is a lot more expensive and fewer people have the means. 600 SS bikes are over $10,000 to buy and you can't even get one race weekend out a set of tires. Suspension is way more expensive. I raced AFM in the late '90s during the dot.com boom and the paddock was jammed. Over 1000 race entries per weekend. 600 Production and 600 Superbike would have full grids and wait lists over 20 deep every weekend. Was never the same after the dot.com crash even during 2004-2008. There is a huge gap between club racing and AMA Pro and its foolish to call it club racing.
You're wrong.
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:56 AM   #1296
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
Oh Christ. Its the economy affecting club racing. It has nothing to do with AMA Pro Racing. Club racing is a lot more expensive and fewer people have the means. 600 SS bikes are over $10,000 to buy and you can't even get one race weekend out a set of tires. Suspension is way more expensive. I raced AFM in the late '90s during the dot.com boom and the paddock was jammed. Over 1000 race entries per weekend. 600 Production and 600 Superbike would have full grids and wait lists over 20 deep every weekend. Was never the same after the dot.com crash even during 2004-2008. There is a huge gap between club racing and AMA Pro and its foolish to call it club racing.


Quote:
Back on topic. Why is Dorna jerking around Suzuki about returing to MotoGP? Dorna wants a long commitment but won't commit to a long term rules package. Why should a large manufacturer have to jump through hoops to compete?
I've had the same questions.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:06 AM   #1297
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
Back on topic. Why is Dorna jerking around Suzuki about returing to MotoGP? Dorna wants a long commitment but won't commit to a long term rules package. Why should a large manufacturer have to jump through hoops to compete?
Ezpeleta explains, in Spanish:

http://solomoto.es/1/1360787418/moto...s#.UR4b5KVwp8E

Well worth reading. Rules are fixed from 2014 thru 2016, big changes currently under discussion for 2017 onwards. There is plenty of time to plan.

Also, hints at the spec tire changing. This is A Good Thing.
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:47 AM   #1298
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There is an interesting article with Kenny Roberts in the latest MCN .

I think his take on the current status of GP and the reasons Americans will have no one in competition in a very short while .
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:24 AM   #1299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Ezpeleta explains, in Spanish:

http://solomoto.es/1/1360787418/moto...s#.UR4b5KVwp8E

Well worth reading. Rules are fixed from 2014 thru 2016, big changes currently under discussion for 2017 onwards. There is plenty of time to plan.

Also, hints at the spec tire changing. This is A Good Thing.
This may be down to a translation issue, but did I understand correctly that he was saying to the factories that their ploy of 'we don't like it, we'll do sbk instead' is no longer an issue? It reads like 'we control it all, you play it our way, or tough shit'.

Considering how wrong Dorna runs their web presence, if the above is correct, this does not leave me with a warm fuzzy.

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Old 02-15-2013, 07:45 AM   #1300
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Oh Christ. Its the economy affecting club racing. It has nothing to do with AMA Pro Racing. Club racing is a lot more expensive and fewer people have the means. 600 SS bikes are over $10,000 to buy and you can't even get one race weekend out a set of tires. Suspension is way more expensive. I raced AFM in the late '90s during the dot.com boom and the paddock was jammed. Over 1000 race entries per weekend. 600 Production and 600 Superbike would have full grids and wait lists over 20 deep every weekend. Was never the same after the dot.com crash even during 2004-2008. There is a huge gap between club racing and AMA Pro and its foolish to call it club racing.
I club raced a little in the early 90s. There was no shortage of guys who showed up to "run what they brung." From my current "way on the outside" vantage point, it seems like the number of low-buck riders is down. Seems like you need a reasonably serious $$ effort to compete these days. Is anyone still racing on stock bikes w/stock suspension and worn out tires?

It's the same thing riding dirt bikes. Used to be that the parking areas were full of ratty pick-ups and vans. Now 1/2 the vehicles are nice toy haulers or motor home/trailer combos. Peer pressure?
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:46 AM   #1301
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Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
This may be down to a translation issue, but did I understand correctly that he was saying to the factories that their ploy of 'we don't like it, we'll do sbk instead' is no longer an issue? It reads like 'we control it all, you play it our way, or tough shit'.

Considering how wrong Dorna runs their web presence, if the above is correct, this does not leave me with a warm fuzzy.

That's more or less it. The factories demanded rule changes, and if they didn't get them, threatened to go play with the Flamminis. So they got 21 liters of fuel, 800cc bikes, six engines, etc etc. That threat has been neutered.
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Old 02-15-2013, 07:57 AM   #1302
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That's more or less it. The factories demanded rule changes, and if they didn't get them, threatened to go play with the Flamminis. So they got 21 liters of fuel, 800cc bikes, six engines, etc etc. That threat has been neutered.
So in your opinion Krop, is this dorna monopoly going to be a good thing for both classes of racing?
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:06 AM   #1303
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So in your opinion Krop, is this dorna monopoly going to be a good thing for both classes of racing?
I think it ensures that both series will survive. If Infront and Dorna kept fighting, one of the series would have died from lack of money.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:34 AM   #1304
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Thanks, that definitely is a good thing. I like the sound of the proposed 500 class.
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Old 02-15-2013, 08:46 AM   #1305
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Ezpeleta explains, in Spanish:

http://solomoto.es/1/1360787418/moto...s#.UR4b5KVwp8E

Well worth reading. Rules are fixed from 2014 thru 2016, big changes currently under discussion for 2017 onwards. There is plenty of time to plan.

Also, hints at the spec tire changing. This is A Good Thing.
If there is a change in spec tires, or the tire rule in general, then I wouldn't consider the rules "fixed" for any amount of time. Don't factories would have to know what tire they are developing bikes for? A three year span doesn't seem like nearly enough, that just means you get two years before you probably have to start developing a new platform, if Dorna follows its usual path.

As long as I'm being difficult, back to my original question: what does the fixed rule package, such as it is, have to do with whether or not Suzuki comes in as a factory effort or has to go back door through an existing team? Why put up road blocks for a factory entry?
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