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Old 02-15-2013, 09:52 AM   #1306
Kropotkin
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
If there is a change in spec tires, or the tire rule in general, then I wouldn't consider the rules "fixed" for any amount of time. Don't factories would have to know what tire they are developing bikes for? A three year span doesn't seem like nearly enough, that just means you get two years before you probably have to start developing a new platform, if Dorna follows its usual path.

As long as I'm being difficult, back to my original question: what does the fixed rule package, such as it is, have to do with whether or not Suzuki comes in as a factory effort or has to go back door through an existing team? Why put up road blocks for a factory entry?
What have Suzuki contributed in the past 10 years? Uncertainty, a point-blank refusal to produce more than 2 bikes, and several broken promises, despite being given extra allowances. Suzuki wanted a 1-year contract. What does that add to the series, especially if Dorna have to kick a team off the grid to make way for them?
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:52 AM   #1307
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post

As long as I'm being difficult, back to my original question: what does the fixed rule package, such as it is, have to do with whether or not Suzuki comes in as a factory effort or has to go back door through an existing team? Why put up road blocks for a factory entry?
I don't know that the rule package has much, if anything, to do with a Suzuki entry. What Dorna seems to be saying is that they want to keep the grid limited to 22-24 bikes (which seems to be keyed to how much $$$ Dorna is kicking back to the teams as much as logistics and race management) and that the teams that are playing ball (as opposed to teams that took their ball and went home, like Suzuki) with us already (i.e. current CRT) would have 1st dibs on the slots.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:22 AM   #1308
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Originally Posted by ErikY. View Post
This reminds me of the fact that GP or AMA can barely attract fans to the facilities in the first place in the States, let alone sell advertising on regular TV. It blows my mind to watch AMA on TV and race day looks like a practice day; thousands of empty seats. Filming bikes going past the finish line with empty bleachers in the background can't be appealing to a sponsor.
The fact is that bike racing isn't that popular here in North America. I go, and you go, but that's not paying the bills.
Maybe you can find a tie-in here;
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:25 AM   #1309
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Suzuki put bikes on the grid for decades until Dorna mismanagement (several expensive rule changes) drove costs high enough to kill any ROI for them and Kawasaki and very likely kept others from entering MotoGP. Suzuki isn't the bad guy and labeling them as such doesn't help MotoGP. Even with limited grid size, Suzuki adds more value to the series than the lowest performing CRT effort? Suzuki sure as hell has contributed more over your "last ten years" time span than any CRT? However the lowest performing CRT effort is getting more love from Dorna than Suzuki.

I'm not anti-CRT and I'm not a Suzuki fanboy. I'm just saying the arguments in support of Ezpeleta don't hold up.
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Old 02-15-2013, 10:42 AM   #1310
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Originally Posted by DogBoy View Post
Suzuki put bikes on the grid for decades until Dorna mismanagement (several expensive rule changes) drove costs high enough to kill any ROI for them and Kawasaki and very likely kept others from entering MotoGP. Suzuki isn't the bad guy and labeling them as such doesn't help MotoGP. Even with limited grid size, Suzuki adds more value to the series than the lowest performing CRT effort? Suzuki sure as hell has contributed more over your "last ten years" time span than any CRT? However the lowest performing CRT effort is getting more love from Dorna than Suzuki.

I'm not anti-CRT and I'm not a Suzuki fanboy. I'm just saying the arguments in support of Ezpeleta don't hold up.
Honda demanded, and got all those rule changes you cite, with the exception of the spec tire. The mismanagement on Dorna's part was prior to 2002, when they agreed to hand the rulebook over to the factories. The factories have been pushing the series into a dead-end ever since. Dorna's only mistake was to believe the factories when they promised full grids.

How does Suzuki add more value? You think they would be running anywhere other than where Aspar is already running with the Aprilias?
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:04 AM   #1311
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Honda demanded, and got all those rule changes you cite, with the exception of the spec tire. The mismanagement on Dorna's part was prior to 2002, when they agreed to hand the rulebook over to the factories. The factories have been pushing the series into a dead-end ever since. Dorna's only mistake was to believe the factories when they promised full grids.

How does Suzuki add more value? You think they would be running anywhere other than where Aspar is already running with the Aprilias?
If you're convinced the prescence of one of the big four Japanese factories doesn't help MotoGP, then there is nothing I can say that will sway you.

Handing the rulebook to the factories was one of many mistakes Dorna has made and continues to make. I'm just hoping they don't screw up WSBK and take all the domestic series down with them.
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DogBoy screwed with this post 02-15-2013 at 11:44 AM
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:08 AM   #1312
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post

How does Suzuki add more value? You think they would be running anywhere other than where Aspar is already running with the Aprilias?

I tend to think Aspar is over-acheiving, or at least maximizing the performance of their CRT effort whereas the same results from Suzuki would be a starting point for growth and improvement towards the front of the grid, no?

And honestly, I can't even tell you the names of the back-running CRT teams. Maybe NSM is one them (Colins team?). Actually, that is just the sponsor, right?
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:23 AM   #1313
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KRJR even said after 2000 about all Suzuki ever did was put new paint on their bikes.The MOTOGP bikes were laughed at if not for their riders riding their asses off.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:28 AM   #1314
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KRJR even said after 2000 about all Suzuki ever did was put new paint on their bikes.The MOTOGP bikes were laughed at if not for their riders riding their asses off.
You and Krop be sure and tell Chris Vermeulen that his win doesn't count.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:45 AM   #1315
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If you would read my post I give credit to the riders for their accomplishments I was at Bruno in 07 when Hopkins got second he literally rode his ass off I think it was his best effort. I believe the same for Vermeulen's ride only watched it on my computer though. Even Kevin S. panned the bike at the end of the season when he rode it as down on power and crappy electronics compared to all the other entries.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:55 AM   #1316
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If you would read my post I give credit to the riders for their accomplishments I was at Bruno in 07 when Hopkins got second he literally rode his ass off I think it was his best effort. I believe the same for Vermeulen's ride only watched it on my computer though. Even Kevin S. panned the bike at the end of the season when he rode it as down on power and crappy electronics compared to all the other entries.
Looks like Aspar should just hire Hopkins and Vermeulen and collect a bunch of podiums.

Nobody with a truly second rate effort scores a win, pole or podium in MotoGP and Suzuki did all those things. (Melandri on the Hayate bike proves this rule by being the exception ) I agree the Hopkins and Vermeulen were riding their asses off. All MotoGP riders are riding the shit out of the bikes. Now lets not take the internet too seriously. Its Friday.
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Old 02-15-2013, 11:57 AM   #1317
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You and Krop be sure and tell Chris Vermeulen that his win doesn't count.
It was in the rain, so there's an invisible asterisk attached.
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Old 02-15-2013, 04:42 PM   #1318
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Kinda fail to see, how the CRT's add more value... did they ride in the same races as prototype bikes last year -- I guess that's possible, just didn't notice in that case!?

Alvaro didn't do so bad on the Suzuki, if the factory had had some motivation to continue, maybe they'd be more competitive than Ducati right now. Considering how the world economy & bike sales went, and also how expensive it became to have a snowball's chance in hell to be a front runner in MotoGP, I really can't blame them, that they left.
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:30 PM   #1319
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It was in the rain, so there's an invisible asterisk attached.
The asterisk that says "this guy is a damn good rider in the wet"?
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Old 02-15-2013, 06:11 PM   #1320
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The asterisk that says "this guy is a damn good rider in the wet"?
No, it says Suzuki was incidental to this win.
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