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Old 02-18-2013, 11:45 AM   #73876
Rusty Rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
A seat is a definite must, and a windshield is also needed.
I don't have a windshield and will never have one on this bike. I did 1500 miles in a week last Sept. The one thing I did was put on a Seat-Concepts seat. I got the 1" taller version.

I used the stock tires and gearing. no problems. (Trail-wings and 15/42 )

I usually use knobbies and lived with the stock seat for over 5 years and run a 14 tooth front sprocket.

I usually get just under 50 mpg. I can usually go 110 miles to reserve but on the highway going 70-75 mph, into a wicked headwind, I hit reserve at 90 miles. (stock tank)

The DR650 is a TRUE dualsport bike. It will do roads and it will do trails. You have R80 for the road work, so the KLR will be too much of an overlap. Get the DR and you will love it.

BTW: the DR650 is pretty much unchanged since 1996, so buy a good clean low mileage used one and get in the game sooner.
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Rusty Rocket screwed with this post 02-18-2013 at 11:52 AM
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:04 PM   #73877
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
I think I've gotten too many terms in my mind, so help me out.

Bike on a stand (no load on the suspension, tires off the ground) has X distance between two points (bolt near the seat to axle) = 21.5"
Bike off the stand with no rider has Y, distance between same two points = 19.75"
Bike with rider seated has Z distance, distance between same two points = 18.25"

So, what term do you use for each:
X to Y
Y to Z
X to Z

What do you think is a reasonable number for each distance?
What is the point of preload on the rear suspension, to change ride height, or something else?
You can learn quite a bit by reading Essays on the Race Tech site by Paul Thede. He is sort of the Guru of off road suspension.
Terms vary ... but I'm old school and follow Mr. Thede's terms coined back in the 1980's.
Really only two terms:
Static sag.
Pull UP on seat and top out travel. Measure. Now let go and let bike settle on it's own weight. That distance is Static Sag.
Next is: Race Sag.
Rider on bike with full gear. Jump up and down some to settle bike down into it's full sag. Measure.
Your specs are about right for the DR650. Between 3.5 and 4 inches is about right. Front sag is tougher to determine, but typically will be much less than rear sag. (about half)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Rocket View Post
Total travel is the first (longest) measure
Free sag is the distance that the rear of the bike settles when on the ground, but only under its own weight (no rider). Middle measure
Race or rider sag is the third measure (shortest) which should be taken with you on the bike feet on the pegs and all gear on you as well. A good number for the race/rider sag is 4 inches used up when compared to total travel.

if the bike doesn't have enough free sag (usually about 1 inch)when you have cranked in the spring to the right rider sag you need a stiffer spring

Read here: http://motocross.transworld.net/1000...ting-your-sag/

It really makes a difference to have the correct rider sag. I had a KDX 200 that would not turn well in the woods. Drove me nuts. That's when I learned about rider sag. It was way too soft. I cranked it in till I had 4" of rider sag and voila, it was way better. Before raising the rear susp, the bike was acting like a "chopper" and when I picked the rear up, it put more weight on the front tire and steepened the steering angle. Helped a lot.
This is all good. Too much rear sag means bike will not turn on the trails, will be sluggish. Adding pre load or going to heavier spring can help.
It's better to ride higher in the travel for a more plush ride. Thede's essay's cover this and talk about pre load and consequences.

Trial and Error and using a consistent test loop and keeping notes seems to help. There are lots of variables beyond Sag and preload. But everything works together and every change ... affects everything else.
Simple, eh?
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:52 PM   #73878
trumposorousrex
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Rm rear wheel

For the life of me, I Thought I read on here that you can use a rear RM125/ RM250 rear wheel on a 96+ Dr650. I want more tire options for off road 18-19 rim size and keep a more streetable tire on the stock wheel. I have been looking on here for a while now and I am thinking that I made it up. So if any of you know if it will work or know of where I can read about it, It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Matt
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Old 02-18-2013, 12:56 PM   #73879
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
If highway miles are mote important than pure off-road capability, get the KLR.
Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
i must respectfully disagree. the dr650 is smoother, lighter, simpler, more reliable, easier to work on. with simple mods, it will outperform the klr as well. my bike has fcr39 carb, hi flow midpipe and header, and tsukigi gsxr1000 muffler as the only performance mod. it will cruise smoothly at 80 no problem, w/stock gearing. pulls strong to (at least) 100. my brother-in-law, who is 6'3", 230lbs, could not believe how much smoother/faster/better handling it was than the klr he sued to own. re: handling, mine is set up as a motard; i am sure that made a big difference! i would recommend something like a slipstreamer windshield at the least, and an aftermarket seat is a must. w/the stock seat, i was in pain in 20 minutes. and at 6'-0"/155lbs, i am not one of those fat-asses!

i definitely recommend buying used, as was stated before - same bike for a lotta years...

doug s.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:58 PM   #73880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumposorousrex View Post
For the life of me, I Thought I read on here that you can use a rear RM125/ RM250 rear wheel on a 96+ Dr650
A DR350 rear rim will work with minor changes. Anything else will require significant mods to make work.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:48 PM   #73881
acesandeights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
You can learn quite a bit by reading Essays on the Race Tech site by Paul Thede. He is sort of the Guru of off road suspension.
Terms vary ... but I'm old school and follow Mr. Thede's terms coined back in the 1980's.
Really only two terms:
Static sag.
Pull UP on seat and top out travel. Measure. Now let go and let bike settle on it's own weight. That distance is Static Sag.
Next is: Race Sag.
Rider on bike with full gear. Jump up and down some to settle bike down into it's full sag. Measure.
Your specs are about right for the DR650. Between 3.5 and 4 inches is about right. Front sag is tougher to determine, but typically will be much less than rear sag. (about half)
...

This is all good. Too much rear sag means bike will not turn on the trails, will be sluggish. Adding pre load or going to heavier spring can help.
It's better to ride higher in the travel for a more plush ride. Thede's essay's cover this and talk about pre load and consequences.

Trial and Error and using a consistent test loop and keeping notes seems to help. There are lots of variables beyond Sag and preload. But everything works together and every change ... affects everything else.
Simple, eh?
It was the Racetech (Thede/Parks) book that got me confused. I read it several times, figured I was good to go and then started reading it maybe a little too precisely. They use "suspension sag", "race sag", "static sag", "free sag", "free sag, top-out bumper" and "free sag, negative spring" as various measurements in their bible and I'm not really concerned with them all. Per the bible though, I'm pretty close (a little high on the free sag, a little low on the race/static sag), and it rides nice. I thought I might be able to dial it in just a little better, but not sure I can. I see now that some of the terms they use are interchangeable. I was not fully geared up though, so the race sag would be slighly more geared up.

Per the Racetech Motorcycle Suspension Bible, Race Sag and Static Sag are the same measurement. Free Sag is what you're calling Static Sag.

The front though feels so good I haven't messed with it at all.
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acesandeights screwed with this post 02-18-2013 at 07:42 PM
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:07 PM   #73882
805gregg
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How does this ride on the ave oomph to at least do 65-75 if needed on a highway with 180lb rider plus gear

How is the headlight? Is it upgradeable? (granted I drive a 1986 BMW, I can survive with a kinda shitty headlight)

Is this comfortable for longer touring, either with or without the stock seat.

What sort of mods would I want to get beyond luggage rack, bash plate, perhaps a small fairing?

Thank you, it is much appreciated[/QUOTE]

It will cruise at 80 all day long, but the wind blast is something to deal with, I've got a Lynx fairing from Britania Composits, it helps I'm still working out the windshield, the stock seat is bad but a Sarget seat is an all day rider, much better bike than the KLR, I had one, faster better off road simpler, easy valve adjustments, no radiator and lighter. Go for a DR you will be hooked, also join DRriders, lots of info there

805gregg screwed with this post 02-18-2013 at 06:16 PM
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:19 PM   #73883
neo1piv014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
i must respectfully disagree. the dr650 is smoother, lighter, simpler, more reliable, easier to work on. with simple mods, it will outperform the klr as well. my bike has fcr39 carb, hi flow midpipe and header, and tsukigi gsxr1000 muffler as the only performance mod. it will cruise smoothly at 80 no problem, w/stock gearing. pulls strong to (at least) 100. my brother-in-law, who is 6'3", 230lbs, could not believe how much smoother/faster/better handling it was than the klr he sued to own. re: handling, mine is set up as a motard; i am sure that made a big difference! i would recommend something like a slipstreamer windshield at the least, and an aftermarket seat is a must. w/the stock seat, i was in pain in 20 minutes. and at 6'-0"/155lbs, i am not one of those fat-asses!

i definitely recommend buying used, as was stated before - same bike for a lotta years...

doug s.
It must depend in the particular KLR you're comparing. The one I've ridden was a 2008. People always knocked those for being too street oriented, but in all the times my buddy and I went to the mesa on our bikes, we never came across a spot where my DR could go that his KLR could not, and his definitely had me beat on the road.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:28 PM   #73884
doug s.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo1piv014 View Post
It must depend in the particular KLR you're comparing. The one I've ridden was a 2008. People always knocked those for being too street oriented, but in all the times my buddy and I went to the mesa on our bikes, we never came across a spot where my DR could go that his KLR could not, and his definitely had me beat on the road.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk 2
no doubt; my brother-in-law's klr was older - 2002, mebbe? and, afaik, it was stock. and, as i mentioned, my 2000 dr650 has carb and exhaust mods.

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Old 02-18-2013, 06:57 PM   #73885
Hesaid
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Do I want to clean up my backside?

As it would turn out, I'm going to be doing some work on the backside of Shesaid's bike, several parts will need replaced. She has decided she wants the factory look, which is fine, but it offers the opportunity for me to take the factory parts from my bike, and put them on her's, while replacing mine with the backside cleanup kit from Procycle:
(NOTE: pic is a link, but you'll have to scroll down a bit for the kit info)


I have been thinking about this mod for a while, but hadn't made up my mind. Now, due to some recent events (Faceplant ), I could actually make this come out as a "free" upgrade, as the kit costs less than all new Suzuki parts.

Should I do it?

MV
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:09 PM   #73886
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesandeights View Post
It was the Racetech (Thede/Parks) book that got me confused. I read it several times, figured I was good to go and then started reading it maybe a little too precisely. They use "suspension sag", "race sag", "static sag", "free sag", "free sag, top-out bumper" and "free sag, negative spring" as various measurements in their bible and I'm not really concerned with them all. Per the bible though, I'm pretty close (a little high on the free sag, a little low on the race/static sag), and it rides nice. I thought I might be able to dial it in just a little better, but not sure I can. I see now that some of the terms they use are interchangeable. I was fully geared up though, so the race sag would be slighly more geared up.

Per the Racetech Motorcycle Suspension Bible, Race Sag and Static Sag are the same measurement. Free Sag is what you're calling Static Sag.

The front though feels so good I haven't messed with it at all.
Confusing for sure! And with Lee Parks in the mix ... you can be sure half is BS! Early Thede essays were his alone. Not sure how Parks got in the mix
at Race Tech. Anyway, good luck sifting through it all.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:42 PM   #73887
trumposorousrex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
A DR350 rear rim will work with minor changes. Anything else will require significant mods to make work.
Thanks, they seem hard to come by I've been looking. Anyone want to get rid of one? Would the rm wheel need machine work or just bearings?
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:43 PM   #73888
acesandeights
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesaid View Post
Do I want to clean up my backside?

As it would turn out, I'm going to be doing some work on the backside of Shesaid's bike, several parts will need replaced. She has decided she wants the factory look, which is fine, but it offers the opportunity for me to take the factory parts from my bike, and put them on her's, while replacing mine with the backside cleanup kit from Procycle:
(NOTE: pic is a link, but you'll have to scroll down a bit for the kit info)
...
I have been thinking about this mod for a while, but hadn't made up my mind. Now, due to some recent events (Faceplant ), I could actually make this come out as a "free" upgrade, as the kit costs less than all new Suzuki parts.

Should I do it?

MV
I think it looks a LOT better than stock.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:07 PM   #73889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcap View Post
my concern with oiling the unifilter would be cleaning it later. cleaning pleats is a pain in the arse. im going to switch to the modified stock filter with oiled foam which is nice and easy to service whenever i do the main air filter.
In reality cleaning the UNI is not a big deal. Just spray some cleaner on it, rinse it with water (from the inside out), repeat once if necessary, let it dry, and re-oil.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:22 PM   #73890
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Originally Posted by motolab View Post
In reality cleaning the UNI is not a big deal. Just spray some cleaner on it, rinse it with water (from the inside out), repeat once if necessary, let it dry, and re-oil.

Regards,

Derek
air filter cleaner is even more difficult to find in Asia than air filter oil. what are some alternatives to cleaner that will do the same job but are more of a generic product?
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