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Old 02-18-2013, 05:34 PM   #1501
3B43
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I would post a response, but the normal reaction to my opinion(s) on people's lifestyles, AND the reason for their lifestyles, is negative! My opinion(s) are based on 'life' experiences and observation.

Congrats on Ducati's invitation----you've EARNED it!!!!
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:42 PM   #1502
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My original post was meant to encourage people to become who they want to be, to identify what was most important and develop it; and to be aware that often it’s not just others we fool when we’re wearing our costumes: sometimes we fool ourselves. That’s where the greatest danger lies: at that moment, the moment we confuse our appearance for our abilities and believe we already are who we want to be, development stops.[/QUOTE]
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:28 PM   #1503
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You NAILED it with post #1501!
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:51 AM   #1504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiHero View Post
...The criticism I have—and the criticism everyone in society has—is when the external image projected does not match who the person really is...
The rest of your post is, as always, very well said. I'm going to quibble on this one point, just because [g].

There's a subtle but important difference between someone who has fooled himself (and thinks he's fooled us) by adopting an outer layer that is not in any way backed up by his inner abilities, and someone who consciously puts on that layer in jest, in hopes of achieving what he knows he doesn't or can't have, or to inspire observers to feel those same emotions.

It's the difference between a poseur asshat in race leathers who can't corner, and a full-of-life jester at Mardi Gras.

In other words, it's not the mismatch that offends. As with so many things, it's all about attitude.

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Old 02-19-2013, 06:57 AM   #1505
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Originally Posted by AntiHero View Post
...be aware that often it’s not just others we fool when we’re wearing our costumes: sometimes we fool ourselves. That’s where the greatest danger lies: at that moment, the moment we confuse our appearance for our abilities and believe we already are who we want to be, development stops.
Damnabbit that's good stuff.

My humble quibble is that you're coming at this from your point of strength. Your strength is (I believe from following you across the country with your words and pictures) in your confidence in your own ability. You are confident that your abilities and resolve can get you through anything. What you're missing in the facades of others is the siren's song of escape. People everywhere are trapped in the reality of needs and wants. We need shelter, we need food, we need a job... and we want comforts. But that cage we live in keeps us tethered to reality and keeps us from truly experiencing our dreams. So we escape. We fantasize. We pretend. And we hold on to our tether.

I believe the distinction is in how far we go out on the ledge. We as 'manly men' crave adventure. The open road, the warrior who saves the damsel, the ninja who is invincible and deadly, chrome and bandannas. Adventures. Fantasies. But in the end, we still hang on to the safety line. You always knew you had your job--as long as you had your laptop and your cellphone. You had an income and a place to return to, so even you were still tethered. What I loved about your adventure is how far you were out on that ledge. Further than most any of us will ever reach, and that challenges me personally to reach further. For that, I am grateful.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:25 AM   #1506
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Originally Posted by AntiHero View Post
It’s like this:
• When a guy who looks like a bad ass Harley rider is a bad ass motherfucker = Much respect and fear
• When a guy who looks like a bad ass Harley rider cries when he gets a parking ticket = FAIL!
• When a guy on a GSXR-1000, dressed like Nicky Hayden, spins his rear tire out of a corner at full lean while his knee and elbow are planted on the ground = Bow down!
• When a guy on a GSXR-1000, dressed like Nicky Hayden, tries to do a stoppie but crashes because he used the rear brake instead of the front: IDIOT!
• When a GENCON guy dressed like a Ninja can run up the side of a two story building while slicing grapes using shuriken = Real Ultimate Power!
• When a GENCON guy dressed like a Ninja, but is 200lbs overweight and takes the escalator while choking down two slices of pepperoni pizza = Fail.
I see where you're going but I think it's stated a little narrowly. Bad-assed motherfuckers can cry whenever the fuck they want. Nicky Hayden probably crashed a few times learning to do stoppies too. People can still love Ninjas even if they aren't Ninjas (or maybe it's a really good disguise).

Dressing like the things you love in order to wear your heart on your sleeve is very different from the delusion that dressing a certain way makes you a certain thing.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:29 AM   #1507
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AntiHero, I just discovered your thread this last weekend, and I am so far up to pg 15. It is awesome and I may pm you later as I am planning a similar trip this May. Also, do you miss your D675? I just sold mine and I miss it already, and I may be buying a new one for my trip. I got something against 1L bikes, but still I admit that the Panigale is one exquisite bike.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:03 AM   #1508
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Originally Posted by danham View Post
There's a subtle but important difference between someone who has fooled himself (and thinks he's fooled us) by adopting an outer layer that is not in any way backed up by his inner abilities, and someone who consciously puts on that layer in jest, in hopes of achieving what he knows he doesn't or can't have, or to inspire observers to feel those same emotions.
-dan
Good point. I suppose we have 1,2,3,4 types?

1. Authentic - person's estimation of their own abilities matches ‘reality’
2. Inauthentic - person is unaware that their abilities are less than they estimate
3. Imposter - person is aware that they are not who they're trying to pass themselves off as
4. Underestimator - person who underestimates their own abilities and is far more competent than they often seem (or believe themselves to be)

Think of authenticity as a system where feedback is constantly analyzed, then classified, then internalized. Inauthenticity would be when new data is ignored and a person believes what they want to believe instead of what they perceive (a method often used is not avoiding situations where their ‘skills’ are tested).

The blatant imposter knows they are deceiving others, and most likely values the ability to deceive more than whatever it is they’re pretending they are.

The underestimator….well, I’ll talk about that below.

[QUOTE=malibu_dan;20759795]
My humble quibble is that you're coming at this from your point of strength. Your strength is (I believe from following you across the country with your words and pictures) in your confidence in your own ability.
I'll have to politely disagree with you here. I'm anything but confident in my abilities. (Type 4, as described above.) I've tried to overcome my own lack of self-confidence, but I'm unable to internalize accomplishments. My confidence level will always be a flatline because nothing I do registers as having internal value. I struggled with that for years. Positive things I do never make any sort of positive impact on what I felt about myself. So I cultivated fearlessness. It's the 'fuck it' approach...I just stop thinking about things and start doing it. I've circumvented the part of the decision making process that requires confidence.

People everywhere are trapped in the reality of needs and wants. We need shelter, we need food, we need a job... and we want comforts. But that cage we live in keeps us tethered to reality and keeps us from truly experiencing our dreams. So we escape. We fantasize. We pretend. And we hold on to our tether.

I believe the distinction is in how far we go out on the ledge. We as 'manly men' crave adventure. The open road, the warrior who saves the damsel, the ninja who is invincible and deadly, chrome and bandannas. Adventures. Fantasies.
QUOTE]

Very well put.

AntiHero screwed with this post 02-19-2013 at 11:17 AM
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:16 AM   #1509
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Originally Posted by s9pa View Post
AntiHero, I just discovered your thread this last weekend, and I am so far up to pg 15. It is awesome and I may pm you later as I am planning a similar trip this May. Also, do you miss your D675? I just sold mine and I miss it already, and I may be buying a new one for my trip. I got something against 1L bikes, but still I admit that the Panigale is one exquisite bike.
I do miss my 675. It's a brilliant bike! Triumph needs to get off their butts and make a 1075.



Ben: My point wasn't that Bad Ass people can't cry, it was that they don't cry over stupid shit like parking tickets. And if Nicky Hayden has ever crashed doing a stoppie, I'm quite certain it wasn't due to the fact he attempted one using the rear brake instead of the front. (Incompetence was what I was emphasizing.)
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:02 PM   #1510
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Ben: My point wasn't that Bad Ass people can't cry, it was that they don't cry over stupid shit like parking tickets. And if Nicky Hayden has ever crashed doing a stoppie, I'm quite certain it wasn't due to the fact he attempted one using the rear brake instead of the front. (Incompetence was what I was emphasizing.)
Sure...but in learning a skill, everyone starts at the level of incompetent.

I guess my point was that the guy wearing a full racing suit is maybe just being practical since he knows he's not any good at riding (though trying to do a stoppie on a public street is pretty dumb (but then people do dumb things)). And that the fat guy in a ninja suit knows he's not a ninja but he's being honest with the world in shouting out his love of all things ninja.

I agree with you that if the dude on a Harley is trying to convince himself and others he's a BAMF when he's not, then that's inauthentic; but if he just loves the look of steel and chrome and the feel of an off-balance engine and leather chaps, then more power to him.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:49 PM   #1511
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Just saw this. I'm actually surprised it took this long for someone to reply with this kind of a response. Discussing something as sensitive as identity typically narrows perspective and misinterpretation is often the result. I would ask you to reread what I wrote with an open mind. I played a devil's advocate in the beginning, then demonstrates how we ALL participate in a world of make believe. I also provided a formula for analyzing the difference between authenticity and spuriousness. (There are wannabees in EVERY sport or interest group, I concluded with a method of separating the two. My criticism (and it is criticism) was directed at the people who are guilty of inauthentic, self-deceptive behavior, which is very different than someone who alloys their life with imagination in a way that isn't contradictory to their life.) Please, reread what I originally wrote with the above in mind and I think you'll see that we share the same opinion.

I'm tied up right now, but will draft a more thorough response that vindicates what I've said and clarifies my position a little more thoroughly. It's a fascinating topic for me and I've wanted to tie more solidly to Compatibilism, so perhaps this will be my chance. :)
So, the idea that you expected a response means you either knew your statement was semi-inflammatory or you have zero faith in human-kind eh ? I say eh because im on page 30 and your in Canada, heh.
Discussing identity is always going to be a slippery slope to climb I'm glad you understood that, although matter-of-factly speaking I, even though in two of the groups mentioned, do not have my perspective narrowed by inclusion or interest.

I did read and re-read what you said multiple times and valued the statements up to and including the assignment of identities, though I felt some of the specifics were incorrect, including the seriousness and who whats and whens of a few things. I did not feel you were being judgmental or narrow-minded yourself until one of the last statements; "Myself? I'd be too embarrassed to be seen with either group.". This statement seemed to put a bullet point in the idea that a judgement was occuring, one that was made enough to validate or invalidate your own personal feelings towards those two types of people. That statement alone colored the entire preceding points.

I do very much understand that we all participate in a world of make-believe. Would you believe I have a friend that read most of your ride report and he himself called you a poser ? That statement is not meant to be an insult just to reinforce what I said earlier that there is always someone bigger, stronger, faster, richer, more tortured, more creative, more nerdy, more poser-ish than you or i or anyone else we personally know.

One of my best friends is a guy, before he died, I was mortified to be around plenty of times. He was a nerd in the biggest sense of the word, socially awkward completely not assured in any way and very naive, in short the epitome' of geek. He taught me more about being ok with being weird and goofy in life, you only have this one to live this time you know ?, than I ever thought I would be able to. I only say this because I mean to validate some of the "posers" and "goofballs". I don't think everyone is a worthwhile person on the contrary I think most people I have taken the time to know are completely worthless actually as human beings. The idea, however that the really genuine folks I have met in 27 countries all over the world in different jobs and facets of life that WERE valuable genuine real quality people, I could have missed by dis-including myself from them with a single statement is frightening. Possibly much less frightening than the concept that the stress and frustration I receive from INCLUSION, but nonetheless I digress.

You point out that you are criticizing those who are not authentic and some of those people I would agree, johnny come lately's fast friends, random includers, heat of the momenters and what have you. In the Harley side of things I can see plenty of those and have spoken to many of them, in Harley riding groups and sport-bike groups as well. Leather-vested carpet installing knee-cap covered guys riding in groups is my favorite to laugh at as a "stereotype". Though I can tell you dressing up as some character at a Game convention, GENCON or otherwise is no facet of weakness or lack of commitment, if you doubt me on this try to make yourself do it sometime, I have been going to GENCON 10 years or more and still never have been able to make myself do it. That act takes guts the likes of which you can't imagine. Maybe I have more latitude for those in the gaming world in this regard because riders' costumes' are pure shit and simply mock safety which is something I can't tolerate, and gamers are purely stepping outside their bubbles to be caused embarrassment and ridicule. Who knows.

I saw you replied again and Ill read that and reply in a second.


C
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:10 PM   #1512
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Is this the online equivalent of dick measuring?


Lets not clutter up an awesome ride report.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:29 PM   #1513
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Compatibilism is going to have to wait for now! Too much of a different tangent, but I'll get to it.

I reread my original post (and saw a typo I’ll correct). I was a little afraid that perhaps I misrepresented what I intended to say, but I think I’m still dead on. To summarize the conclusion of my original post: GENCON-ers dressing up like who they want to be is no different than the dentist or doctor who removes his white lab coat and puts on a leather vest and jumps on his Fat Boy, no different than the guy who puts on a Rossi helmet and gets on an R1, no different than the guy who slicks back his hair and buys a Transformers Camaro. Everyone—and that includes me—presents themselves to the outside world in a way that they see/ want to see themselves or want the world to see them. We ‘project’ our internal image of ourselves to communicate our identity to the rest of the world. And we participate in something larger than ourselves when we do so.

I don’t take issue with Harley guys, and I have no idea how you got that I have anything against sportbike riders (I am a sportbike rider). And I don’t have issues with GENCON peep (I’ve had bruises on my butt from sitting on 20 sided dice more than once). The criticism I have—and the criticism everyone in society has—is when the external image projected does not match who the person really is.

It’s like this:
• When a guy who looks like a bad ass Harley rider is a bad ass motherfucker = Much respect and fear
• When a guy who looks like a bad ass Harley rider cries when he gets a parking ticket = FAIL!
• When a guy on a GSXR-1000, dressed like Nicky Hayden, spins his rear tire out of a corner at full lean while his knee and elbow are planted on the ground = Bow down!
• When a guy on a GSXR-1000, dressed like Nicky Hayden, tries to do a stoppie but crashes because he used the rear brake instead of the front: IDIOT!
• When a GENCON guy dressed like a Ninja can run up the side of a two story building while slicing grapes using shuriken = Real Ultimate Power!
• When a GENCON guy dressed like a Ninja, but is 200lbs overweight and takes the escalator while choking down two slices of pepperoni pizza = Fail.

The distinction I’m making is that whatever outward appearance someone projects should be backed up with corresponding abilities. How can we figure out if a motorcyclist is a ‘squid’ or a wannabe just by looking at them? We can’t. And honestly, I don’t spend too much time trying to figure it out. A guy looks like a bad-ass, I’m going to assume he is. A guy looks like an AMA superstar? Same. It takes a great deal of insecurity to go out into the world constantly challenging and undermining people. My concern is with myself and authenticity, making sure that I can back up my words and back up whatever the hell it is I’m projecting to the world. And the only way to do that is through action.

My original post was meant to encourage people to become who they want to be, to identify what was most important and develop it; and to be aware that often it’s not just others we fool when we’re wearing our costumes: sometimes we fool ourselves. That’s where the greatest danger lies: at that moment, the moment we confuse our appearance for our abilities and believe we already are who we want to be, development stops.

You made some great points here that I want to address. You also made a critical error in thinking I desperately want to address as well.

Backwards in order:

1. Encouraging people to be what they want, develop abilities and strive for greatness at any level is a wonderful thing if it is enacted in a regard befitting them, not you. Our desire to judge and better others is something innate inside of us, and more often than not causes us to err. See the bottom line with this is simply that WE do NOT have the ability typically to understand the path each person is on, even though we see things we think are errors and mistakes. Often our desire to "help" others or our desire for others to be "authentic" is simply not where that person is or should be at that time, you neglect to understand with this statement that if EVERYONE was Nicky, EVERYONE would then be a squid a scrub a noobie, because there would BE nothing to strive to and everyone would look at the next person up with .000001% more talent or time invested or skill aquired.....See what im saying ? We make mistakes in the desiring part for others. I want nothing more than my "tortured" friend to not be, I love him to death and I listen to him criticize others daily for lack of intelligence lack of originality lack of lack of lack of, but that is his path and only he can adjust or change it, see even then I wrote "right himself" and had to go back and change it, its built into us. I think you are on to something here with wanting to understand your surroundings though, I certainly don't want to be riding with "Nicky Hayden" and find out woops no it was a noob that just low-sided and made me high-side because of it, right ? I would never suggest not making a set of judgement calls that help make us safe and comfortable. Though that leads me to the next bit....

2. You reference these Nicky Haydenites in a way, again I dont suggest keeping yourself safe, that seems to state that each of these people WANTS to be something YOU have decided......This is your critical error. So my 1000.00 Miguell Duhamel helmet I bought which was the only thing I bought "from or of" a rider in all history made me want to be Miguel ? ok im not gonna lie I did wanna be Duhamel mostly because im older and he was older most of his career heheh, kidding. What is the line ? Where do you or anyone for that matter get to decide who WANTS to be anything ? Anyone passing this judgement is making a critical error. I do not mean to suggest there are NOT people posing in life, by all means there are. But the larger percentage of people I speak to riding RC-51's are not trying to be Nicky Hayden or CBR600s not trying to be DuHamel or what not, they simply just like the bike or the jacket or the colors. In the case of the Ninja 200 pounds overweight shoving pepperoni pie down his hole you say because he can't scale a brick building in a single bound while assasinating the GENCON committee members he is a poser and I say that guy having brass balls the size of new york state putting on a ninja outfit and trotting around eating pepperoni pizza IS what he was after. See you make a judgement based on what YOU think a person or group should be ABLE to do and maybe thats just your judgement and sure maybe thats a LOT of peoples judgements, 100,000,000 in China eating rice can't be wrong right ?, Wrong.....What people want and desire is not up for discussion or interpretation from us. Now if you walk up to said person and they flat out tell you they want to drag a knee while wearing a .45, throwing shurikens and scaling brick walls with their bad-ass beards and they are serious, poser judgement all the way and i'm with you, I hate those people.

Though I think if you inspect your thought process you will find more summary judgement than inspection-based judgment. We all do it, we are all guilty of it I think snap judgements keep us safe, keep us sane, keep us healthy in most respects its a gut instinct if you will. Though I think when you take the time to say I would be embarrassed to be with be seen near etc, maybe taking some time to inspect those people is in order, you might find your assessment of their "goals" or "abilities" is off base only in respect to your own thoughts of them. Some of these people you will find are right in line with where they want to be, enjoying the purple and bright yellow of a helmet only because its purple and yellow not anything to do with wanting to be Miguel Duhamel (sp* h H h ? ) How else could you explain auto-erotic-asphyxiation ? I am pretty sure those people aren't interested in "posing" for anything as that is a purely alone time mostly lol activity. Also the folks crashing doing stoppies with the rear brake again they fall into a different category than overweight ninjas in my opinion as do the crying harley guys all 3 much different categories.

I rambled a bit at the end...


I applaud that your goal is to back up your outward appearance with ability, I myself strive toward that end. I read voraciously, experience intently, learn and build aggressively and the more and more I consume in this life the more I find what I have said above is true. The real "lesson" here is that as you become more aware, more learned, more enlightened then the responsibility for others' well being and learning, leans to you. The more you know the more you learn the more responsible for others we become, that is the true mark of a human being in this life. I wouldn't suggest you stop judging or making snap calls especially in regards to your safety and happiness, though adjusting your understanding that others' happiness could exist in ways you don't understand and don't agree with might facilitate your own tolerance and pleasure. In addition to that taking on the charge that we should pass on/down/to others our knowledge in a soft and accepting manner will also yeild some fairly interesting results I would bet.


Looking forward to your next reply :)



Chris
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #1514
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The rest of your post is, as always, very well said. I'm going to quibble on this one point, just because [g].

There's a subtle but important difference between someone who has fooled himself (and thinks he's fooled us) by adopting an outer layer that is not in any way backed up by his inner abilities, and someone who consciously puts on that layer in jest, in hopes of achieving what he knows he doesn't or can't have, or to inspire observers to feel those same emotions.

It's the difference between a poseur asshat in race leathers who can't corner, and a full-of-life jester at Mardi Gras.

In other words, it's not the mismatch that offends. As with so many things, it's all about attitude.

-dan
Pretty nice way to explain what I said in 3000 words lol thanks.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:35 PM   #1515
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I see where you're going but I think it's stated a little narrowly. Bad-assed motherfuckers can cry whenever the fuck they want. Nicky Hayden probably crashed a few times learning to do stoppies too. People can still love Ninjas even if they aren't Ninjas (or maybe it's a really good disguise).

Dressing like the things you love in order to wear your heart on your sleeve is very different from the delusion that dressing a certain way makes you a certain thing.

Also stated what I meant in way less words, thanks :)
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