ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Ride reports
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #616
Shibby!
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Currently - Canada
Oddometer: 1,647
Still don't agree with it. I feel that's covering bad habbits with more bad habbits. Most often then not new riders on 4-stroke dirt bikes have a MAJOR issue with downhill because of engine braking. They continue to use this and act as if it's required. They remain slow. I know life's not about the race, but learning where improvements can be made make big differences.

Go down a hill and engine brake. Now, pull in the clutch. Yes, you pick up speed but skills like brake balance should be learnt. NEVER just use one brake. Always brake with both. Those that don't use front brakes often come from road bikes or harley's. Sport bike riders often don't use their rear brakes. Both are wrong.

Two wheel slides are controllable even while standing. You don't learn if you don't try. Then again, around here you learn to sink or swim real quick.

Learning involves mistakes. Learn from mistakes. Instead of bull dogging down, when safe, givver shit. Roost around corners, lock up your front tire on wet grass going straight. Push the locked tire going straight. Slide into and around corners with the rear locked. Try things. Before long you'll realise you learn to fall. Falling properly is a learnt reaction.

These are all techniques to learn. Know the limits of your bike then learn to control it within those limits. Learn to let off the brakes in a downhill and absorb bumps, then brake hard in sections where braking allows. Play off obstacles. Don't always take the easy line, ESPECIALLY when there are slower riders. Use this opprounity to learn and push skills. ALWAYS LOOK AHEAD. You should know what your next moves are. Don't focus on a rock step. Plan what you are going to do after gasing (yes, gas DOWNHILL, to remain neutral) then where you'll scrub speed, etc.

Downhill's are some of my favourite. They are also times where I catch most people. I've seen countless newer riders have trouble with downhills but also seen those who try make massive improvements, quickly.

Since I'm rambling, learn to wheelie. You don't have to hold a standup wheelie for a mile, but learn to pop the wheel. This is the single biggest skill that can save you HUGE. Not only in panic manuevers, but jumping ruts, root sections, rock sections, step downs, etc. When you don't have a front wheel on the ground, it can't deflect. Most riders panic because the front will skip over, especially in roots, ruts, and downed trees. Once you can pop the front you can also learn to jump trees. Jump multiple trees. It becomes fun!

At the end of the day, you learn by trying. Find out what works for yourself. You don't even have to go for a "ride", just play around staging areas with obstacles. Repetition is one of the best ways to get better.
__________________
Tour of Idaho T1 Challenge - https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php...551f1642711d75
Eat. Sleep. Ride - The Great Divide: http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...4#post19193704
Go, Get Lost - Heading South: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735690
Dirt Donkeys Do Baja: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671095

Shibby! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 12:39 PM   #617
davesupreme
grand poobah
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: palm harbor, fla
Oddometer: 1,379
just went to a shane watts class, where the drills were pretty much all of the above.....
davesupreme is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 06:03 PM   #618
Patj551
Studly Adventurer
 
Patj551's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Colorado Rockies
Oddometer: 536
Don't want to hijack your thread Fey....been lurking in the background but thoroughly enjoying your ride reports.

I'm a former pro Motocross racer. When I retired from racing MX I began racing downhill mountain bikes professionally. Riding a motorcycle or bicycle downhill can be a daunting task. Regarding dirt bike skills & for that matter any motorcycle riding skills they are best learned on smaller bikes in controlled situations. The fact that you're learning on a fully loaded & heavy DR650 makes the challenge even more daunting. I'm impressed you're doing amazingly well riding AND wrenching. Kudos to you!

I'm careful with the words "always" and "never." There are times when engine braking is appropriate, grabbing the clutch & coasting while dragging the rear brake, sometimes coasting in neutral works, and sometimes I use the rear brake alone. They're all different skills. I'm not a fan of neutral coasts, but if you ever break your chain you may wind up in that situation so best to know how to deal with it. (I once raced in a "chainless downhill race" in Moab were all you could do is coast)

This may sound a little backwards but momentum is your friend (controlled) going down hill. Again, you're on a fully loaded bike, but getting your weight over the rear axle and dragging the rear brake (remember to clutch to keep from stalling) or engine braking is a great start. The last thing you want to do is lock up the front end & "superman" over the bars. Once you're comfortable with that technique add some light front brake, preferably when the bike is in a straight line on tacky or clear terrain. That said, remember momentum is your friend. It's amazing what these bikes will roll over & through with a little momentum.

IMHO "line choice" is critical in all aspects of riding but more so in downhill. I tend to look for straight lines, linking them with turns. I'll choose a line with a larger SOLID ROCK over smaller loose rocks. When riding technical downhill I often pick up speed through gnarly sections and then brake check myself in safer straight sections. I look far downhill, stay flexible, & keep my weight back or centered. There are many techniques.

You go girl! I think you're doing awesome! Ride safe!
__________________
'14 KTM 350 XCF-W
'13 BMW F800GS (low)
'08 Yamaha FJR 1300
Patj551 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 07:56 PM   #619
UFObuster
Adventurer
 
UFObuster's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Wilmington, NC
Oddometer: 56
dr650....

..interest in this thread leads to question: how tall is Fey?
The dr650 is attractive...stock bike: who is riding and how tall?
thanks..
__________________
It has been said that man is a rational animal. All my life I have been searching for evidence which could support this. (Bertrand Russell)
___________________
UFObuster
UFObuster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 08:57 PM   #620
Feyala OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Wandering...
Oddometer: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steinbuck View Post
Try lamp oil. Here in Nor Cal it's available at OSH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Plus One on the Lamp Oil. Good all purpose cleaner, degreaser ... no stink!
Alright, I'll keep my eye peeled. I assume the stuff I can find in small quantities at the dollar store with pigment probably contains waxes that are no bueno for degreasing, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
always interesting reports, Fey. I'm taking some personal satisfaction at being there to help you get your dirt legs under you. I think you have enough of a dirt primer behind you to learn the rest on your own and at your own speed. You go, girl....

I must agree that when you drill down thru the years of Nips life, he's quite a guy.....and a good guy to be a friend of if ever near Lone Pine.

Nip's been fighting his way thru carb problems on his DRZ the last couple weeks. We've been in contact over the phone a few times. This dualsporting expands a guy/gal in many ways.
You should! Without people willing to 'babysit' me, I'd be taking far fewer chances and learning a lot more slowly!

He's probably got it sorted by now, but I wish him good luck! He's good people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxmotorhead View Post
+1 on the "Knock my A** out club, and i had all 4 done just to get it over with you only need one go round and the healing time is the same... They are not really knocking you out, as in a general, , they just make it so your out enough not to care... I don't remember it but my wife said they could ask me to open my mouth and what not. All 4 of mine were in sideways.. and had long roots the Dr basically said he didn't want me awake cause it was not going to be pretty. I was amazed how much better I slept after getting them out, they tend to push on your teeth and mis-align your jaw..

Plus I am a total dental weenie.. My first dentist at about 6 or 7 had the motto that "Novocaine was for wimps" and besides he only had to drill a little bit.. Bas*** stuck me to the ceiling a couple times..

Good luck and take care of yourself...

Dave
Yeah, I don't have a problem with giggle gas and local anesthetics, I just don't like generals. A not-insignificant number of people die every year just from anesthesia. It's mostly old people, but I just don't want to roll those dice if I can help it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadGal View Post
I have yet to find a really nice quiet way from the crowds hot spring! Looking forward to doing so one day
Hot springs alone are the best thing ever...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jettn Jim View Post
yummy.......... keep on keep'n on!
Will do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by drdubb View Post
Bk Brkr baker had dental work done in Mexico. Good experience. He did a ride report around that visit.

A friend of mine has those Nelson rigg bags, very good and quite large.

If you want secure, use the soft side bags and get a good quality top case. Pelican or similar.
I'll have to check out that RR when I get closer to goin' south. It's always good to have a better idea what to expect. So thanks!

And yeah, I'd love to, but I can't do a top case with all of my clothes and stuff strapped on top. We'll see, I'll figure this stuff out eventually. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGir View Post
That's not a phobia - just common sense
I dunno, a lot of people seem to be perfectly happy going under the knife. Brrr. No thanks...
Feyala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 10:39 PM   #621
Feyala OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Wandering...
Oddometer: 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
I'm playing some massive catch up, but just wanted to point out this is bad advice..

By doing so, you limit the slip of the rear wheel by not locking up, but you cause massive issues by doing this. The bike becomes a moment arm forcing the front of the bike down. Not a huge issue you might think, but it applies varying load on the forks making them harsh, it affects handling, and it's just bad. Try it for yourself and you should instantly see the difference.

Pull the clutch, learn to modulate your brakes and in the end you'll be way, way further ahead. Keeping the bike neutral on downhills is a massive benefit. Many 4-stroke riders don't realise this. 2-strokes don't have nearly the same engine braking so it plays much less of a factor.

You learn where to brake, where to let off, and how to modulate them and things will start clicking.

Good luck. Most newer riders have the most issues with decents.
I used to pull in the clutch and just feather the brakes, as the sound of the engine braking was unnerving to me. Other folks pointed out that if I engine braked, I wouldn't have to ride the brakes as much, and that's led to a slight increase in speed for me, because I am starting to "trust" the bike more at speeds faster than I was initially comfortable with (engine brake in first is about 15mph, which seems like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride if I'm facing a steep downhill with a sheer drop-off to one side!). I still have to clutch in to prevent stalls from braking quite frequently, if that gives you any indication of the speeds I am dealing with. I have no doubts that this is solid advice if I was going a bit faster, but right now, I am both engine braking AND normal braking, and still feel out of control sometimes...

Yes, it's okay if you laugh at me. I laugh at me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
It's true, steep downhill takes practice and good technique. Pulling the clutch in ... I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND! Engine braking is your friend!

Many novice riders are afraid to use the front brake ... thinking it will lock up and wash out. Most times ... it won't. But a balanced and delicate approach must be used. A mix of engine braking and use of BOTH brakes judiciously is what is required. Rear brakes ... obviously ... lock easily. So best to lightly drag the rear brake without locking. Requires practice and good feel to perfect.

On super steep descents you must pick your braking areas. Some areas ...if you brake you will lock up and lose control. Others, you can hammer the brakes and get slowed down before approaching a truly knarly section. Picking high traction braking zones is critical ... PRACTICE. This involves having good terrain reading skills. Takes a while to get this.
I am not afraid of my brakes. If anything, I seem to get people staring in amazement at how slow I can manage to go while remaining upright. I am great at going ridiculously slow. Unfortunately, in places like the Fucking Scary Hill, this is more of a liability than a benefit, and I would have probably had a better time if I'd been able to deal with it just a little bit faster, because when I go that slow I get a lot more deflection, the wheel tends to go around more than over the shit in my path, which is destabilizing.

Unfortunately, there was nowhere on that hill that was a good "braking area", what I could see was all shitty loose rocks. On the last part of that ride, I did start looking further ahead, realizing a bad part was coming up, and braking before I got there. I definitely need to better my terrain reading skills and be less paranoid of what's immediately ahead of me so I can look further down the road and set up my line. I figure that is probably one of those things that comes with practice.

Quote:
If huge rocky steps are involved (think a "Trials Section) ... best to dismount and "Bull Dog" the bike down the steps .... get help if possible.
Loose rocky scree is especially tricky on a heavy dual sport ... and it's easy to lock up both ends and go careening down the mountain out of control. Been there, done that.
Oh man. I've never had to deal with a lot of huge rocky steps, but it's been a childhood dream to ride down a flight of stairs. How do you train that set of skills without falling on your face?

Quote:
Noobs need to work up to Enduro level challenges. It took me years of AMA
Enduro competition to learn downhills and lose fear of them.

On the DR650 ... or any heavy dual sport, this is a daunting task and even experts have trouble.

Noobs need to learn to use their front brake aggressively and take it right to the edge of lock up. 80% of braking is here. With low pressure (12 to 14 PSI) and a good front knobby (not a 50/50 dual sport tire) you will get traction where you would not think possible. Trust it.

Lower than stock gearing can also can be of help as more engine braking is offered ... giving riders hands & wrists a rest break in flatter sections of the hill.
Yeah, I picked a sub-optimal bike to learn dirt skills. Totally agreed. Sadly, I can't afford or keep two bikes. If I ever do get into a position where I can have more than one, I'll probably get a tiny little singletrack shitkicker.

You do bring up a good point and that's that I should be a lot more familiar with how far I can push my brakes before they lock up. I've locked the brakes before, and it's kind of terrifying, so I just apply as much as I feel comfortable with and don't go faster than that amount of brake can slow me down. Maybe if I were more confident in my ability to 'emergency brake' I'd be less afraid of going a bit faster. Hmm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
Still don't agree with it. I feel that's covering bad habbits with more bad habbits. Most often then not new riders on 4-stroke dirt bikes have a MAJOR issue with downhill because of engine braking. They continue to use this and act as if it's required. They remain slow. I know life's not about the race, but learning where improvements can be made make big differences.

Go down a hill and engine brake. Now, pull in the clutch. Yes, you pick up speed but skills like brake balance should be learnt. NEVER just use one brake. Always brake with both. Those that don't use front brakes often come from road bikes or harley's. Sport bike riders often don't use their rear brakes. Both are wrong.
Yay, something I do correctly! Braking with both is one of the things keeping me from standing up more, actually. I don't feel like I can control my rear brake very well while standing, or I feel like my boot's going to slip off the peg (and I have nice wide pegs). It feels awkward either way.

Quote:
Two wheel slides are controllable even while standing. You don't learn if you don't try. Then again, around here you learn to sink or swim real quick.

Learning involves mistakes. Learn from mistakes. Instead of bull dogging down, when safe, givver shit. Roost around corners, lock up your front tire on wet grass going straight. Push the locked tire going straight. Slide into and around corners with the rear locked. Try things. Before long you'll realise you learn to fall. Falling properly is a learnt reaction.
These are skills I really wish I had, but mistakes when I don't have health insurance and travel solo can be... suboptimal. That's why I've been kinda easing into this, and pushing my boundaries when I feel safe, with others. I could go balls out and fall over a lot, but I don't have the money for a lot of repairs for either of us. Before the accident, I'd never really fallen off this bike at anything other than an elderly walking pace.

Quote:
These are all techniques to learn. Know the limits of your bike then learn to control it within those limits. Learn to let off the brakes in a downhill and absorb bumps, then brake hard in sections where braking allows. Play off obstacles. Don't always take the easy line, ESPECIALLY when there are slower riders. Use this opprounity to learn and push skills. ALWAYS LOOK AHEAD. You should know what your next moves are. Don't focus on a rock step. Plan what you are going to do after gasing (yes, gas DOWNHILL, to remain neutral) then where you'll scrub speed, etc.

Downhill's are some of my favourite. They are also times where I catch most people. I've seen countless newer riders have trouble with downhills but also seen those who try make massive improvements, quickly.
I'm starting to learn some of this, but I'm nowhere near there yet. I'm way better than I was though, and every time I do something challenging, I feel like I'm improving massively. I'm not entirely sure how to learn faster without taking unacceptable risks... that's why I like group rides.

Quote:
Since I'm rambling, learn to wheelie. You don't have to hold a standup wheelie for a mile, but learn to pop the wheel. This is the single biggest skill that can save you HUGE. Not only in panic manuevers, but jumping ruts, root sections, rock sections, step downs, etc. When you don't have a front wheel on the ground, it can't deflect. Most riders panic because the front will skip over, especially in roots, ruts, and downed trees. Once you can pop the front you can also learn to jump trees. Jump multiple trees. It becomes fun!
The only reason I haven't learned how to wheelie yet is my bike seems a bit too eager for it. Unloaded at a stop, when I start to go, I can feel the front end start to lighten a bit, so I'm particularly careful with feathering the clutch. My biggest worry in trying to intentionally wheelie is that I'll give it too much too quickly and loop it. I agree that it seems like a useful skill to have though, and I've seen videos (mostly trials) where such things were a critical part of the route.

Quote:
At the end of the day, you learn by trying. Find out what works for yourself. You don't even have to go for a "ride", just play around staging areas with obstacles. Repetition is one of the best ways to get better.
Agreed, and thank you for your advice! I don't find staging areas too often, though maybe I should seek them out more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesupreme View Post
just went to a shane watts class, where the drills were pretty much all of the above.....
Yeah, I have a couple of dual sport training vids and it's all drills, which is awesome, I just have difficulty finding a good spot to practice in where I won't be causing a nuisance. I don't really have a 'backyard'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patj551 View Post
Don't want to hijack your thread Fey....been lurking in the background but thoroughly enjoying your ride reports.
Naw man, glad for your input! That's why the actual RR is orange!

Quote:
I'm a former pro Motocross racer. When I retired from racing MX I began racing downhill mountain bikes professionally. Riding a motorcycle or bicycle downhill can be a daunting task. Regarding dirt bike skills & for that matter any motorcycle riding skills they are best learned on smaller bikes in controlled situations. The fact that you're learning on a fully loaded & heavy DR650 makes the challenge even more daunting. I'm impressed you're doing amazingly well riding AND wrenching. Kudos to you!
Thanks! Yeah, as I said above, it's sub-optimal for sure, and I'd love to give a smaller dirtbike a shot. I try to do most of my "boundary pushing" unloaded and around others, but the bike's still a pig even then.

Quote:
I'm careful with the words "always" and "never." There are times when engine braking is appropriate, grabbing the clutch & coasting while dragging the rear brake, sometimes coasting in neutral works, and sometimes I use the rear brake alone. They're all different skills. I'm not a fan of neutral coasts, but if you ever break your chain you may wind up in that situation so best to know how to deal with it. (I once raced in a "chainless downhill race" in Moab were all you could do is coast)
That sounds... interesting. I'd never heard of that kind of race!

Quote:
This may sound a little backwards but momentum is your friend (controlled) going down hill. Again, you're on a fully loaded bike, but getting your weight over the rear axle and dragging the rear brake (remember to clutch to keep from stalling) or engine braking is a great start. The last thing you want to do is lock up the front end & "superman" over the bars. Once you're comfortable with that technique add some light front brake, preferably when the bike is in a straight line on tacky or clear terrain. That said, remember momentum is your friend. It's amazing what these bikes will roll over & through with a little momentum.
Yeah, agreed. On areas with less loose terrain, I've started using just a tiny bit of gas to help keep up the momentum. Faster = I have to do less balance work to keep the bike upright, as the front seems to deflect less. Up until the Fucking Scary Hill, I'd had no problem with creeping slowly down hills, but that one was just too steep and too loose for my creeping skills to work correctly.

Quote:
IMHO "line choice" is critical in all aspects of riding but more so in downhill. I tend to look for straight lines, linking them with turns. I'll choose a line with a larger SOLID ROCK over smaller loose rocks. When riding technical downhill I often pick up speed through gnarly sections and then brake check myself in safer straight sections. I look far downhill, stay flexible, & keep my weight back or centered. There are many techniques.

You go girl! I think you're doing awesome! Ride safe!
Yeah, my lines definitely need work. I'm at the stage right now where I'm starting to look up from "OMG THERES A BIG ROCK GOTTA AVOID" weaving madly and see where exactly I'm actually going now and then. It's easier on flatter or less loose terrain.

My problem with "speeding through gnarly sections and braking on safer straight sections" is that often I can't physically see that far ahead. It's gnarly and then there's a corner - then what? Do you just take the corner at speed and hope you don't go barreling over a cliffside? This makes sense and I've done a minor version with "trouble spots", just gas it past a pile of rocks, but I guess I lack some perspective in relative gnarliness or something. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by UFObuster View Post
..interest in this thread leads to question: how tall is Fey?
The dr650 is attractive...stock bike: who is riding and how tall?
thanks..
I'm about 5'5", so pretty short. I didn't lower it and I have stiffer suspension, and it's still fine, I can almost flat foot it with all of my crap loaded up. I'd probably be a little bit more confident on a shorter, lighter bike, but it hasn't been a problem so far and I have no complaints. Easy as pie to work on too!
Feyala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2013, 11:02 PM   #622
Feyala OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Wandering...
Oddometer: 358
Whew! Lots of replies! Thanks for all the advice everyone! I'll learn how to ride eventually...

I had the cavity-ridden tooth extracted on Thursday. It came out easily and I kind of feel like a moron for filling my prescriptions, because the damn thing somehow doesn't hurt at all. Whoops. Oh well, I'll take it! It was cheap too, $100 for exam, x-rays, and the extraction. This was from a normal dentist - the dental school wanted $100 just to look at it.

The dentist wants $280 to extract the dumb sideways one on the other side of my mouth though, and since it isn't actively causing me any problems, I think I'll wait and take care of it in Mexico.

We fixed the rack and the box. I still need to re-seal the box, but I'm taking everything on a dry run at highway speeds tomorrow to see if anything needs fixed. I waterproofed the tank panniers and we installed loops and a rope so they won't flap upwards at speed. I weighed the two boxes - together they are 25 lbs empty, which, okay, yeah, that's kind of a lot, but it isn't as bad as I thought it might be.

The battery to SAE cable works well and runs my compressor - this means I should be less afraid to really air down my tires offroad. My dad helped solder together an SAE-cigarette lighter adapter, and bought me a USB outlet that fits in it, so I can charge items while riding now, making me slightly less reliant on Starbucks. Yay!

So tomorrow I attempt to pack up all my crap and see if I can remember how to operate a motorcycle after having been out of the saddle for far too long. My goal is to leave in a couple of days, heading east - I'd like to visit a friend of mine in Florida before it becomes deliriously humid-hot. After bumming around the southern states for a bit, once my passport renewal comes in I may aim for Baja, assuming the money holds out. We'll see! I am eager to get on the road!!

Suggestions as far as stuff to see/do (oddities, cool nature stuff, caves, weird people, hot springs, great views) on the way from here to FL are very welcome! I know pretty much nothing about these states other than stereotypes, and have never been to any of them other than the tip of TX and straight through the 40 in NM. I will be routing to avoid high elevations and snow, obviously.

So tell me, dear readers: what should I check out along the way?
Feyala is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 06:10 AM   #623
adventurebound9517
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ.
Oddometer: 277
I was just thinking of you yesterday and wondering what you were up too? Let the new adventure begin.
adventurebound9517 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 07:10 AM   #624
cruiserbiker
n00b
 
cruiserbiker's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Brandon Ms
Oddometer: 7
What route will you be taking to FL?

What is the route you will be taking?
cruiserbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 08:20 AM   #625
Patj551
Studly Adventurer
 
Patj551's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Colorado Rockies
Oddometer: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyala View Post

That sounds... interesting. I'd never heard of that kind of race!


My problem with "speeding through gnarly sections and braking on safer straight sections" is that often I can't physically see that far ahead. It's gnarly and then there's a corner - then what? Do you just take the corner at speed and hope you don't go barreling over a cliffside? This makes sense and I've done a minor version with "trouble spots", just gas it past a pile of rocks, but I guess I lack some perspective in relative gnarliness or something. :)
Chainless race is a quirky kind of "fun race." All gravity driven. Whoever carries the most speed down the course and through the turns and obstacles wins.

Tough choice Fey....it's imperative to "see" down the hill so you can anticipate before you're on top of things. Standing up will give you more vision and allow the bike to move independently underneath you. Typically (not always) braking should be done before the corner, not in the corner. I got an idea for a simple thing to try...I use this drill with many new riders.

Try this on an unloaded bike in a flat obstacle free area. Accelerate the bike to a moderate speed. Hit the brakes. Try to mark the spot where you started braking and where you stopped. Now go back and do it again, this time STAND UP and when you hit the brakes push your weight back and down over the rear wheel. Mark the spot where you started and stopped braking. If all goes well, your braking distance should be shorter on the second try. Practice this until you're a bit more comfortable, then find an obstacle free downhill section. Try it again.

Pushing your weight back and down over the wheel should give you more braking traction on the back wheel. This is critical in downhill conditions where you must let the front wheel roll to avoid supermaning over the handlebars. Also, you will find when you get that back wheel to dig in and grab, the rear end of the bike will sink down. That in turn allows you to hit the front brake harder without catapulting over the front end. This drill also teaches you to use your rear and front brakes independently and together, meaning applying different pressure (harder on the rear, softer on the front rather than just pushing and squeezing hard simultaneously.)

The next step is to throw in an obstacle or two. I'll take a small stick that you can roll over no matter what and create an obstacle just to get the timing down. Practice releasing the front brake as you roll over the stick then grab the brake again. Once you have the timing down, you can try rolling over downhill obstacles while still braking with the back end.

Glad you're on the road again! Yup, steer clear of our Colorado snow and ice for now! And thanks for all the details, descriptions and pics. It takes a lot of time and effort. Appreciate it!
__________________
'14 KTM 350 XCF-W
'13 BMW F800GS (low)
'08 Yamaha FJR 1300
Patj551 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 10:10 AM   #626
Shibby!
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Currently - Canada
Oddometer: 1,647
I know there was a lot there to digest. I wouldn't expect anybody to go out there and throw themselves over the deep end and expect to come out fine. Controlled skill testing is required.

The biggest thing is try small things at a time and FEEL the bike. It's always giving feedback and that feedback is priceless information on what you can do and when.
__________________
Tour of Idaho T1 Challenge - https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php...551f1642711d75
Eat. Sleep. Ride - The Great Divide: http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...4#post19193704
Go, Get Lost - Heading South: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735690
Dirt Donkeys Do Baja: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671095

Shibby! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 02:37 PM   #627
Oldone
One day at a time!
 
Oldone's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: MN. (summers) AZ. (winters)
Oddometer: 652
Still reading!

I'm still finding it enjoyable to read things here and lately a couple of you gals are stealing the show for me. Thanks for taking the time to do this. It's lots of fun reading!

Gary "Oldone"

Grampa’s Lake Superior Ride
Grampa’s National Monument Ride
Oldone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #628
Warin
Retired
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Oddometer: 1,660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patj551 View Post
Try this on an unloaded bike in a flat obstacle free area. Accelerate the bike to a moderate speed. Hit the brakes. Try to mark the spot where you started braking and where you stopped. Now go back and do it again, this time STAND UP and when you hit the brakes push your weight back and down over the rear wheel. Mark the spot where you started and stopped braking.
Humm ... not so much of a standing up thing ... more of moving your bum as far back as it will go .. at a first try move it as far back as the rear of the pillion seat .. are as far as you can go. You get to go further back with more adrenaline!

------------------
As for what is around a corner ... I've had

A python snake ... completely across 1 1/2 lanes of a two lane dirt road
end of the road - vertical drop of 10 meters - no warning.
wooden bridge - burnt out

those are the ones I remember .. all on dirt.
Warin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #629
Shibby!
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Currently - Canada
Oddometer: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warin View Post
Humm ... not so much of a standing up thing ... more of moving your bum as far back as it will go .. at a first try move it as far back as the rear of the pillion seat .. are as far as you can go. You get to go further back with more adrenaline!

What's wrong with standing up? She should be standing every chance she gets. Everybody should.

There are fast, highly skilled riders who sit, but there are a lot more who stand. I made the mistake while learning sitting down, but when I transitioned to standing the benefits were noticed almost instantly once I felt comfortable.

Standing allows you to move your weight back further and quicker if required. Sitting forces your arms to take the grunt also causing a pivot point around the front wheel. It also affects the manhood if you hit a big bump while braking hard. haha.
__________________
Tour of Idaho T1 Challenge - https://spotwalla.com/tripViewer.php...551f1642711d75
Eat. Sleep. Ride - The Great Divide: http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...4#post19193704
Go, Get Lost - Heading South: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735690
Dirt Donkeys Do Baja: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=671095

Shibby! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2013, 06:57 PM   #630
Adv Grifter
on the road o'dreams
 
Adv Grifter's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Passing ADV Stalkers in California
Oddometer: 6,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
What's wrong with standing up? She should be standing every chance she gets. Everybody should.

There are fast, highly skilled riders who sit, but there are a lot more who stand. I made the mistake while learning sitting down, but when I transitioned to standing the benefits were noticed almost instantly once I felt comfortable.

Standing allows you to move your weight back further and quicker if required. Sitting forces your arms to take the grunt also causing a pivot point around the front wheel. It also affects the manhood if you hit a big bump while braking hard. haha.
I agree ... standing is the way. But novices will take time to get comfortable standing in all situations. My first year racing AMA Enduros
(1988) I knew I needed to stand up more ... but leg cramps and exhaustion would get to me ... plus I had not yet learned to do everything well standing up.

Hang out at nice knarly section of a AMA Enduro or a GNCC National. Watch what the racers do. The only time they sit is for a sharp corner ... where they sit forward all the way, get their leg out and brake slide the corner Moto Cross style. Then they are right back up ... and charging out of the corner.

Only other place you'll see guys sit is through heavy woods with low hanging branches. Once I was knocked out cold when I hit a tree limb hard. Woke up ... I was still on the bike, idling down the trail!

I finally learned to go fast standing but on super fast fire roads (rare in real Enduros) I would sometimes revert back to my Flat Track roots and sit for the corners, getting sideways. Enduro guys SUCK at flat tracking and I could always pass 'em. But they'd get me back in the nasty stuff.

Standing saves energy and saves your back, spine and most of all ... Kidneys over nasty whoops, rocks and ledges ... which you need to hit at speed ... all those parts get hammered in serious off road if you stay seated.

Your knees can handle it better than your Kidneys and back. Arm pump will be LESS when standing too ... if you remember to BREATH and relax your grip. Alan Randt taught me that and Larry Roseler taught me to hold onto the bars/controls lightly to avoid arm pump. All these little tricks mean you can keep a HIGH average speed and Zero check points. That is how you place high in an Enduro.

Dual sport traveling is NOT a race ... but good technique (like standing) is Safer and Saves Energy. Win Win!
Adv Grifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014