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Old 02-21-2013, 08:40 AM   #31
Prmurat
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Just ordered a British one for my Dnepr...
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:40 AM   #32
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Thanks for the front line report 190e. It's been too cold here to get anytime to work on this and I have some other stuff happening too, like everybody else.

I did have a Dyna Booster on my bike for some years and it gave up for no reason at all one day several months ago in a shopping mall parking lot. Of course I had the bike running again in short order. I really much prefer the idea of keeping every thing OEM and adding the advantage of the electronics to make the spark hotter and the points last longer. It's a win win situation in my book. Not everybody agrees.

Since I have a large Hannigan fairing on my bike I may put the Velleman unit in or on the fairing but that may entail having to use a disco plug of some sort. I'll figure this part out later. I do know which holes you refer to for using larger wires. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:47 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve W. View Post
I'm running a GM 4 pin ignition module on my R100S as a points booster.

As per this web site: http://home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZ...ForPoints.html

I mounted the module and the inverter on a heat sink piece of aluminum on the rear glove box under the seat cowl. Got about 500mi. on the setup so far with no problem. With the switch of two wires and reconnecting the condenser it goes back to points only.
Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I hope someone can fill me in on Steve W's setup.

The GM module sounds like a great alternative to a Dyna Ignition Booster. I'd like to try it. First, I hope someone can answer a few questions for me:

1. Do I understand correctly that the GM 4 pin module does approximately the same thing as the Dyna Ignition Booster (reduce wear on the points, and make the spark stronger)?

2. Will it work on my 1976 R90/6? It has a totally stock electrical system, including the original dual coils, stock voltage regulator, stock points, etc.

3. Is this the same module that Steve used?:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wells-DR100-...576d65&vxp=mtr


It sounds too good to be true. Saves your points, boosts spark, and costs only $10? I was considering buying the Dyna Ignition Booster for $70, but if I can get the same thing (sort of) for only $10, I would be all over it.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:02 PM   #34
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That Wells R100 module linked from ebay looks like the right one to me. You do realize that a circuit must be constructed, right? It's not like you add the module and go. Here is the link again to the page with the circuit(s): http://home.comcast.net/~loudgpz/GPZ...ForPoints.html

I built the Velleman K2543 module in about an hour from their kit (http://www.vellemanusa.com/products/...=enu&id=350487). But, I haven't installed it since the Boyer Brandsen ignition seems to be doing fine. Also, I haven't resolved how to pot the Velleman kit circuit board.
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Old 02-10-2015, 01:25 PM   #35
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Yes the Wells R100 is the same module and there are several other equivalents as well. It's a common module.

And yes it will work OK with your existing coils and wiring although I presume you've seen the few extra components needed to trigger these modules with points.

If I hadn't already built and installed the Vellerman kit (see my earlier post in this thread, in fact my very first post on the forum) I would have gone for one of these GM modules as spares should be very easy and cheap to come by.

Don't get too carried away about the benefits although it would be at least as good as the Dyna booster or any other for that matter. Yes it's an electronic ignition but the performance improvement is limited by the coils and most electronic ignitions, BMW's own included, get there improvement by using lower resistance coils to boost spark energy. In theory even with the existing coils, there is some improvement due to the cleaner faster switching particularly when cranking and at low revs. My experience seems to bear that out. All I can say is that assuming I don't stuff up on the choke setting, the bike starts instantly on the button every time.

If you think that there is no justification for the Dyna nodule costing 10 times as much you are absolutely correct and the GM\Wells modules are a very neat solution. There are several others modules that have been adapted for a points trigger but this is the neatest and cheapest and the one I'd use.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:26 PM   #36
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A booster should definitely provide better and more consistent energy (due to the transistor switching component). The points no longer have to transfer the high current and the wear becomes minimal.
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Old 02-10-2015, 05:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by 190e View Post
And yes it will work OK with your existing coils and wiring although I presume you've seen the few extra components needed to trigger these modules with points.
Thanks for the info, 190e! This is the diagram you linked to in your post:



I would use the schematic in Figure 1. It looks like I would need a transistor and a resistor to make the circuit. Is that correct?

If anyone has links/sources for the resistor and transistor (with specific part numbers and so forth), I would really appreciate it. Of course I know I could go to Radio Shack, but it would be good to have some brand names, part numbers, and other info before I go, so that I know I am getting the correct transistor and resistor.

And it would be great to have some photos or a how-to on making this thing. I imagine someone has already posted about it somewhere.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:05 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrewSJC View Post

If anyone has links/sources for the resistor and transistor (with specific part numbers and so forth), I would really appreciate it.
http://www.radioshack.com/radioshack...k/2761617.html

http://www.radioshack.com/4-7k-ohm-1...k/2711330.html

Enjoy it, as it could be your last ever visit to Radio Shack.
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Old 02-11-2015, 04:51 AM   #39
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IMO, the key is packaging the transistor and resistor so they can be:

a.) mounted on the bike
b.) withstand vibration and heat
c.) be waterproof (reasonably)

There are several ways to accomplish those requirements and some are more clever than others. Mounting the transistor and resistor on the DR100 module using something like GOOP after soldering the connections may be one approach. Alternately, having a separate small fiberglass circuit board for the transistor and resistor which has a ground wire and two spade connectors in a potted box is another. There are more and that's generally where the effort is spend in such electronics, IMO.

Edit: in full disclosure, I own a Dyna Booster and used it briefly. The first unit arrived DOA but was replaced under warranty. During that replacement time I got a Boyer Bransdsen micro power kit (w/coils). As one who routinely wastes money on motorcycle gadgets, don't let my experience dissuade anyone from getting a Dyna Booster.

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Old 02-11-2015, 11:52 AM   #40
190e
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Originally Posted by AndrewSJC View Post

I would use the schematic in Figure 1. It looks like I would need a transistor and a resistor to make the circuit. Is that correct?

There is an even simpler way to adapt these modules for a points trigger using a zenner diode and resistor. Take a look at this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rshqgwnsmi...n%203.pdf?dl=0
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:05 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by 190e View Post
There is an even simpler way to adapt these modules for a points trigger using a zenner diode and resistor. Take a look at this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rshqgwnsmi...n%203.pdf?dl=0
Another interesting alternative. Can you tell me how it's simpler? I'm not experienced enough with schematics to see how it's simpler than Figure 1, above.

I am a little worried that it specifies using a different coil than a stock points-type coil. On the schematic it says: "HEI open frame MSD, Motorcraft or coil made for electronic ignition. DO NOT use stock 'points' type coil".
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:11 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by AndrewSJC View Post
Can you tell me how it's simpler? I'm not experienced enough with schematics to see how it's simpler than Figure 1, above.
I'm not sure it is simpler at all. The dropbox schematic is drawn more simply, but that's just because it omits showing the HEI unit in the drawing at all. I haven't studied it extensively (although it's been nagging at the back of my brain for the past hour) but I believe that at most it is simpler by just one connection since it uses a diode with two legs rather than a transistor with 3 legs. Other than that it is nearly the same. I guess simpler by 1 is still simpler.

I do find it interesting that on one version terminal W is grounded, while on the other the same terminal is fed 12 volt positive.
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:24 PM   #43
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I do find it interesting that on one version terminal W is grounded, while on the other the same terminal is fed 12 volt positive.
Good catch! Does that mean that at least one of the schematics is wrong?
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:34 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by AndrewSJC View Post
Good catch! Does that mean that at least one of the schematics is wrong?
No. W and G seem to be the trigger terminals, so it's even possible that they could be switched entirely without issue.

It's just interesting. I'm sure somebody else will have a more informed opinion.
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:54 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by AndrewSJC View Post
Another interesting alternative. Can you tell me how it's simpler? I'm not experienced enough with schematics to see how it's simpler than Figure 1, above.

I am a little worried that it specifies using a different coil than a stock points-type coil. On the schematic it says: "HEI open frame MSD, Motorcraft or coil made for electronic ignition. DO NOT use stock 'points' type coil".

Well a zenner diode is a simpler device than a transistor but it's not a big difference. I was just trying to give you all the options I was aware of.

The comment about not using a points type coil doesn't mean it wouldn't work. To answer why an electronic type coil is suggested we have to get into a more technical explanation. While an electronic ignition derives some benefit from faster cleaner switching, to get a significant increase in spark energy you need coils that draw a higher current so the primary resistance needs to be lower. Almost all electronic ignitions have employed lower resistance coils both because they pull higher currents and because they charge quicker. The faster charging occurs because less resistance nearly always means lower inductance. Less inductance is bad for spark energy and higher current is good for spark energy but it's not a case of gaining on one hand and losing on the other in a proportional manner that produces no benefit as spark energy is equal to 1/2 the inductance x the current squared. So if you were for example to compare the BMW points coils with BMW electronic ignition coils you can easily afford for the inductance to be halved if doubling the current improves spark energy by a factor of 4 and still have a much stronger spark.

That in a nutshell explains the trend over the years for progressively lower and lower resistance coils to improve ignition systems. You just couldn't do that with points but electronic ignitions capable of switching bigger currents have made it possible.

Back to what coils would get the best out of that HEI module. Obviously coils that have lower resistance than points coils. One solution would be to check out what coils were matched to that module in it's original automotive applications. I'm not based in the US so I didn't grow up with those modules but the data shouldn't be too hard to come by. I do know that the HEI module has some inbuilt current limiting or dwell control so it will dissipate excess energy as heat meaning a decent heat sink is needed.

My guess is you'll find the module was used with coils that had less resistance than the typical 3 - 5 ohms points coils but not as low as the more modern 0.5 ohms coils. 1.5 ohms seem about right or to play safe note the suggested minimum of 2.2 ohms in the original posted diagrams.
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