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Old 02-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #3961
agentsteel53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
I guess the Chinese dont do adventure motorcycling yet,
this is interesting - the question is: why not? also, what about adventure motorcycling in China? there's gotta be some great tracks to be had there, but I've noticed a serious absence of China adventure reports on this forum.

is it a matter of the political climate being restrictive against overland travel, either by Chinese residents or foreigners? something else?
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:58 PM   #3962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsteel53 View Post
this is interesting - the question is: why not? also, what about adventure motorcycling in China? there's gotta be some great tracks to be had there, but I've noticed a serious absence of China adventure reports on this forum.

is it a matter of the political climate being restrictive against overland travel, either by Chinese residents or foreigners? something else?
Well yes ... Its politically very restrictive ... so much so that you basically cant take your bike there. They dont recognise foreign drivers licences or foreign registration. You kinda have to get chinese licences and registration and you need to have a guide escort you around the country ... a guide in a jeep that costs hundreds of dollars a day. So its a huge administrative nightmare.

Russia is more normal. If you have a foreign drivers licence, they allow you to ride with that in Russia, if you have foreign registration they recognise that too.

China doesnt do any of that ... it just plays uniquely by its own set of rules.

If you lived in China and could get Chinese licences and registration then it would be much simpler.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:13 PM   #3963
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Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
If you lived in China and could get Chinese licences and registration then it would be much simpler.
then the question is... where are all the Chinese ADV riders? if there's a demand for expensive watches, then surely there must be one for dual-sport motorcycles.

or are they out there, doing awesome rides, and we don't know about it because

a) foreigners don't go to China and meet Chinese adventurers (seems probable given the bureaucracy)

b) Chinese folks don't post ride reports on a mainly-English forum because of a language difference (no idea how much English people learn in China)

c) it's too tough for a Chinese citizen to do an ADV ride into, say, Mongolia and Russia (complete conjecture; dunno how the regulations are in this regard)

it would be interesting, and a bit sad, if there were two non-intersecting worlds of ADV riders.
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:39 PM   #3964
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There were a few moto trips to China from Poland alone last 2-3 years. AFAIK Sambor is planning TWO 'commercial' trips leading into Western China this year: http://en.advfactory.com/tours

Here's some footage of his last trip (just speed up initial mumbings):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8aDhHVLWTP0

I believe one potential reason for lack of info is.... Chinese blocking Internet access to their citizens. they do it to almost all significant services. In fact there's almost separate www available in China, controlled by authorities.

mario33 screwed with this post 02-21-2013 at 05:15 PM
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:44 PM   #3965
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then the question is... where are all the Chinese ADV riders? if there's a demand for expensive watches, then surely there must be one for dual-sport motorcycles.
I disagree

Just cause they have money, doesnt mean they want to ride motorcycles through the mud.

If you look somewhere like Kazakhstan, where the population is about 50% Kazakh, 35% Russian ... All the guys with crazy money are ethnic Kazakh. The police, govt officials, immigration guys, customs guys are all ethnic Kazakh. Yet almost none of the bikers from Kazakhstan are Kazakh. The bikers are almost all from the 35% of the population that is ethnic Russian. Ethnic Kazakhs want to drive new air conditioned land cruisers and have a cushy government job. The Russians in Kazakhstan are happy being engineers, mechanics, entrepreneurs and riding motorbikes.

Despite a similar political environment for the last 100 years, the cultural ambitions of the two main ethnic groups in Kazakhstan are very different.

If Kazakhs prefer a government car and have no interest in motorcycling (despite making good money), then its very possible that a huge country like China with its own cultural momentum and no real dirt biking or adventure travel background is going to embrace adventure motorcycling. If culturally they dont get it, or culturally its not cool to them, then its just not going to happen.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:01 PM   #3966
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Iker

Is it just me or does Iker not sound just like an older Speedy Gonzales (bugs bunny cartoon fame) when he is crossing the bridge? aribaa
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:33 PM   #3968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
I disagree

Just cause they have money, doesnt mean they want to ride motorcycles through the mud.

If you look somewhere like Kazakhstan, where the population is about 50% Kazakh, 35% Russian ... All the guys with crazy money are ethnic Kazakh. The police, govt officials, immigration guys, customs guys are all ethnic Kazakh. Yet almost none of the bikers from Kazakhstan are Kazakh. The bikers are almost all from the 35% of the population that is ethnic Russian. Ethnic Kazakhs want to drive new air conditioned land cruisers and have a cushy government job. The Russians in Kazakhstan are happy being engineers, mechanics, entrepreneurs and riding motorbikes.

Despite a similar political environment for the last 100 years, the cultural ambitions of the two main ethnic groups in Kazakhstan are very different.

If Kazakhs prefer a government car and have no interest in motorcycling (despite making good money), then its very possible that a huge country like China with its own cultural momentum and no real dirt biking or adventure travel background is going to embrace adventure motorcycling. If culturally they dont get it, or culturally its not cool to them, then its just not going to happen.
Interesting. It seems to me to be a bit of ... pardon the saying ... but 'nuevo riche' syndrome. Anyone who (and whose culture) first tastes money, seems to want to spend it on luxury. Those cultures who have been through that cycle (in recent memory) seem to have a bit of wander lust. I can completely understand it.

Very interesting perspective. Thanks for that.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:08 PM   #3969
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I dont think its that complicated. I think maybe they just cant touch the ground from a 650 Adventure bike. Sorry bad joke
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:17 PM   #3970
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just what my employer needed

thank you! gonna read through these.

thank you Walter, as well, for your comments. indeed, cultural factors weigh heavily - look at the statistically improbable representation of Poland in the ADV community.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:44 PM   #3971
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Originally Posted by DyrWolf View Post
I dont think its that complicated. I think maybe they just cant touch the ground from a 650 Adventure bike. Sorry bad joke
Occum's razor again reveals the truth. I am the same height as your average Chinese person and my feet dangle from every dual sport except a couple of the 250cc bikes. Plus for many years previous, there weren't many paved roads or privately owned modern cars in China...so maybe the Chinese have had enough "adventure" while riding their motorcycles in the mud, snow, dirt, heat, cold, etc.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:32 PM   #3972
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Originally Posted by DyrWolf View Post
I dont think its that complicated. I think maybe they just cant touch the ground from a 650 Adventure bike. Sorry bad joke
That's not true of the younger generation. I'm six four and a half and when I was in northern China it wasn't uncommon to meet guys my height or even taller. I was in an elevator once with guys from the national basketball team.

they made me feel puny.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:36 PM   #3973
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Here is another China ride:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618066
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:57 PM   #3974
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Originally Posted by Beater View Post
Interesting. It seems to me to be a bit of ... pardon the saying ... but 'nuevo riche' syndrome. Anyone who (and whose culture) first tastes money, seems to want to spend it on luxury. Those cultures who have been through that cycle (in recent memory) seem to have a bit of wander lust. I can completely understand it.

Very interesting perspective. Thanks for that.
My ex was born in 1958 during the Great Leap Forward and grew up during the Cultural Revolution. This was years before China opened to the west, almost all Chinese lived in the countryside and they were starving. Millions and millions of them in fact. This is within the living memory of many Chinese.

So it should not be a shock that the number one goal of any right thinking Chinese is to get the h*** out of the country, move to the city and make some MONEY!!!!! So wilderness 'adventure' doesn't have much appeal. Too many people lived it.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:51 PM   #3975
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This is one of my all-time favorite ride reports, and it is from China:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371656

As an aside, unless people really enjoy dealing with dragon ladies like Rodd or are on a tight budget, you might want to stay in the big cities between Irkutsk and Moscow (Krasnoyark, Novosibirsk,Kemerovo, Ekaterinburg, etc. etc.). Most of them are about a day apart and especially on a weekend the nightlife and scenery is rather good. The riding in this part of Russia is boring as sin, you might as well have something to look forward to at night other than a scowling dragon lady.
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