2013 ama supercross - Page 101

Drif10 · 02-22-2013, 04:54 AM

Look at Dean Wilson's issues this year. Had a 450....didn't have a 450. Still eligible for lites, so he does that to keep current and viable for sponsors. If he hadn't been eligible, then what? Buy a stocker and try to make the main?

Not quite as bad as in motogp, but it does boil down to few competitive rides available.

ct-ktm · 02-22-2013, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SigPig

+1

Story about integrity in AMA racing.

This is the same way RC got his 125 record...!!!...
Someone pulling over..!!!!!!!

shocker4her · 02-22-2013, 06:58 AM

[QUOTE=Drif10;20783152]Look at Dean Wilson's issues this year. Had a 450....didn't have a 450. Still eligible for lites, so he does that to keep current and viable for sponsors. If he hadn't been eligible, then what? Buy a stocker and try to make the main?

I agree with you about the sponsors but you can not tell me Dean isn't sandbagging the lites class. Dean should have pointed out of the lites class already. Hell look at Martin Davalos he's 26 years old and still racing the lites class and Martin definitely pointed out by now. Then again since Martin has a rich father and the economy isn't so hot, I understand why Mitch took the money to put Martin on the team this year. Then again it looks like all the satellite teams are doing that lately.

nachtflug · 02-22-2013, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brents347

250 titles aren't taken as seriously as 450 titles because they are easier to win with only half the rounds. And who do you think was going to have a potential all time career WITHOUT winning in the 450's? In the old days, guys like Hannah, Barnett and O'mara were 125 specialists who rode those bikes better than all the others but they all also won on the 250's and big bikes as well. That is why they have all time careers.

Barnett titled on 125's outdoors 1980/81/82 and the 1981 250 SX title and still has a respectable status.

If Barcia ends up with nothing but 2 Lites titles his career will be one of underachievement. Barcia had the potential to have a run on 250's that might have been quite substantial. The way the 250's are viewed in SX bleeds over to the outdoors as well. It's all about the 450's. The 250's become a cherry picking smorgasbord for those lucky/good enough to get one of the fast bikes. It's all out of whack and it needs to be fixed. Gordy was right I thought only Musquin was a world champ Roczen is too. We've got world champs riding the hot bikes against "local" kids with an aftermarket pipe and a prayer. Tomac is the perfect example of why the system is totally unbalanced possibly to the systems own harm. He shouldn't be allowed to ride the 450's.

PTRadam · 02-22-2013, 08:19 AM

So what about Dungey last year? He was out for a quite a few races when he broke his collar bone or whatever in a practice crash. He comes back and podiums the last few races and wins Las Vegas. I'd say he effected the final points for a few guys a little. Title was already decided though.

mdubya · 02-22-2013, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nachtflug

Barnett titled on 125's outdoors 1980/81/82 and the 1981 250 SX title and still has a respectable status.

If Barcia ends up with nothing but 2 Lites titles his career will be one of underachievement. Barcia had the potential to have a run on 250's that might have been quite substantial. The way the 250's are viewed in SX bleeds over to the outdoors as well. It's all about the 450's. The 250's become a cherry picking smorgasbord for those lucky/good enough to get one of the fast bikes. It's all out of whack and it needs to be fixed. Gordy was right I thought only Musquin was a world champ Roczen is too. We've got world champs riding the hot bikes against "local" kids with an aftermarket pipe and a prayer. Tomac is the perfect example of why the system is totally unbalanced possibly to the systems own harm. He shouldn't be allowed to ride the 450's.

$$$$$ wins races. It always has since the dawn of time.

nachtflug · 02-22-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTRadam

He comes back and podiums the last few races and wins Las Vegas. I'd say he effected the final points for a few guys a little.

Having someone who was in the series and then goes out with injury and then returns is not an unreasonable scenario.

Promoting a two platform (3 really) series with 2 minor and one major platform to run simultaneously and then letting a rider switch from one minor platform to the major almost halfway through because his platform is taking a prolonged intermission is unreasonable given he has no chance to win the major platform and can have a significant impact on the standings of the riders who are in the major platform he is infiltrating.

SigPig · 02-22-2013, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nachtflug

Having someone who was in the series and then goes out with injury and then returns is not an unreasonable scenario.

Promoting a two platform (3 really) series with 2 minor and one major platform to run simultaneously and then letting a rider switch from one minor platform to the major almost halfway through because his platform is taking a prolonged intermission is unreasonable given he has no chance to win the major platform and can have a significant impact on the standings of the riders who are in the major platform he is infiltrating.

If the top tier riders get their championship hopes derailed because they can't beat a kid from the 250's, then maybe they don't deserve the championship. To be the best, you have to beat the best.

nachtflug · 02-22-2013, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SigPig

If the top tier riders get their championship hopes derailed because they can't beat a kid from the 250's, then maybe they don't deserve the championship. To be the best, you have to beat the best.

if a "kid from the 250's" can beat the top tier riders maybe he shouldn't be in the series that the promoting/governing body treats as the minor leagues.

Lappeman · 02-22-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nachtflug

Having someone who was in the series and then goes out with injury and then returns is not an unreasonable scenario.

Promoting a two platform (3 really) series with 2 minor and one major platform to run simultaneously and then letting a rider switch from one minor platform to the major almost halfway through because his platform is taking a prolonged intermission is unreasonable given he has no chance to win the major platform and can have a significant impact on the standings of the riders who are in the major platform he is infiltrating.

We've been on this topic for days

I don't think anyone is listing anymore

Tomac's racing, doesn't matter what you say...time to move onto Atlanta!

Looking for a good race tomorrow! Villipoto's gotta get his shit together and podium tomorrow or his bid for the title will be in a hole. Milsaps will podium again and I'm hoping for dungey to be there also but I don't think he'll have a good night. Stewart will be back with a vengance and Reed has to make something happen. So what does this all mean for saturday...one hell of a race

450's
Villipoto
Stewart
Milsaps
Tomac
Dungey

250's
Musquin
Wilson
Wharton

SigPig · 02-22-2013, 11:01 AM

You sir, are too much.

PTRadam · 02-22-2013, 11:06 AM

I remember Jeremy Mcgrath and Brian Swink riding Peak Antifreze/Pro Circuit 250's on the opposite coast in like 1990 when they were on 125's. This has been going on for 20+ years. Just something to talk about until the next race.

enduro0125 · 02-22-2013, 11:24 AM

Kyle Chisholm will fill in for Josh Grant at JGRMX.
I'm sure "Coach" is real happy to have him and he is looking forward to running some "one off" parts.
Great news!!

Good thing they didn't put a West Lights rider in there.

ct-ktm · 02-22-2013, 11:55 AM

I wonder why guys like Wilson don't try the west coast 450's.??.
Probably the $$$

Gordy · 02-22-2013, 12:09 PM

A lot of you guys are off the rails here.
If a guy gets injured and then comes back to race?? Really????

What I think Flug is saying is, he doesn't want the "series" to be f@$ked up by someone.....anyone......coming into the series and taking one of the top guys out. It's a series championship and maybe it should be pure and maybe not. I have been in State Championship series type stuff and have had ringers come in and we raced them. They didn't do the whole series, so it didn't matter much, I guess.

We have guys show up all the time in Trials that are not in our club and they can win the day, they just don't get season points. Lots of ways to do this.

I think everyone has their panties in a wad because it's Tomac. He is damn good and could easily be top three tomorrow night.

What if some flunky shows up, qualifies and takes RV out.....I mean....OUT. What then? Would you still think it is OK to let anyone ride in the premier series that can qualify? You can watch Danica Patrick to get your answer to that this weekend as well?

02-22-2013, 04:54 AM	#1501
Drif10 Accredited Jackass Joined: Jun 2003 Location: Gates of Moscow Oddometer: 42,805	Look at Dean Wilson's issues this year. Had a 450....didn't have a 450. Still eligible for lites, so he does that to keep current and viable for sponsors. If he hadn't been eligible, then what? Buy a stocker and try to make the main? Not quite as bad as in motogp, but it does boil down to few competitive rides available. __________________ Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by those moments that take our breath away. George Carlin

02-22-2013, 06:58 AM	#1503
shocker4her When I am King Joined: Jan 2011 Location: Florida Oddometer: 374	[QUOTE=Drif10;20783152]Look at Dean Wilson's issues this year. Had a 450....didn't have a 450. Still eligible for lites, so he does that to keep current and viable for sponsors. If he hadn't been eligible, then what? Buy a stocker and try to make the main? I agree with you about the sponsors but you can not tell me Dean isn't sandbagging the lites class. Dean should have pointed out of the lites class already. Hell look at Martin Davalos he's 26 years old and still racing the lites class and Martin definitely pointed out by now. Then again since Martin has a rich father and the economy isn't so hot, I understand why Mitch took the money to put Martin on the team this year. Then again it looks like all the satellite teams are doing that lately. __________________ Ziggy socky, ziggy socky, hoy, hoy, hoy CRF450X KTM 250sx Don't blame me I didn't vote for the lawyer

02-22-2013, 11:01 AM	#1511
SigPig Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2012 Location: Kingston Oddometer: 136	You sir, are too much. __________________ SIGPIG 2010 KTM 690 SMC 2011 KTM 200 XCW

02-22-2013, 11:24 AM	#1513
enduro0125 Sticks and Stones™.. Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Moran Nation Oddometer: 9,945	Kyle Chisholm will fill in for Josh Grant at JGRMX. I'm sure "Coach" is real happy to have him and he is looking forward to running some "one off" parts. Great news!! Good thing they didn't put a West Lights rider in there. __________________ AMA 487805A

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02-22-2013, 08:19 AM	#1505
PTRadam Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Williamsport, PA Oddometer: 447	So what about Dungey last year? He was out for a quite a few races when he broke his collar bone or whatever in a practice crash. He comes back and podiums the last few races and wins Las Vegas. I'd say he effected the final points for a few guys a little. Title was already decided though.

02-22-2013, 11:06 AM	#1512
PTRadam Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Williamsport, PA Oddometer: 447	I remember Jeremy Mcgrath and Brian Swink riding Peak Antifreze/Pro Circuit 250's on the opposite coast in like 1990 when they were on 125's. This has been going on for 20+ years. Just something to talk about until the next race.

02-22-2013, 11:55 AM	#1514
ct-ktm Beastly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2008 Location: New England Oddometer: 2,755	I wonder why guys like Wilson don't try the west coast 450's.??. Probably the $$$

02-22-2013, 12:09 PM	#1515
Gordy Team Listo Joined: Dec 2001 Location: NM Oddometer: 18,299	A lot of you guys are off the rails here. If a guy gets injured and then comes back to race?? Really???? What I think Flug is saying is, he doesn't want the "series" to be f@$ked up by someone.....anyone......coming into the series and taking one of the top guys out. It's a series championship and maybe it should be pure and maybe not. I have been in State Championship series type stuff and have had ringers come in and we raced them. They didn't do the whole series, so it didn't matter much, I guess. We have guys show up all the time in Trials that are not in our club and they can win the day, they just don't get season points. Lots of ways to do this. I think everyone has their panties in a wad because it's Tomac. He is damn good and could easily be top three tomorrow night. What if some flunky shows up, qualifies and takes RV out.....I mean....OUT. What then? Would you still think it is OK to let anyone ride in the premier series that can qualify? You can watch Danica Patrick to get your answer to that this weekend as well?