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Old 02-22-2013, 12:09 PM   #4006
V@lentino
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Thumb What Walter says

Rod, your writing cracks me up, please keep it up and take us all the way back to Moscow.

Sorry for the partial hijack, but it is a very interesting segway and somewhat pertinent to the content at hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
(...) Its not because they are discriminated against, its because they dont want to be public. They dont want to put themselves forward and face public scrutiny. They culturally dont subcribe to democracy, which is a very western concept - despite our politicians saying its a universal concept. They dont think those in power should be debased by public scrutiny. To the oriental mind, if you are in power, then you deserve respect. You may be subject to limited scrutiny but only from your peers, not from the general public. How many of the Oriental community in California actually even vote? Despite being there the best part of 2 centuries, they still do not embrace democracy. Because culturally its not their thing.
This is quite a fair assessment, although when we speak about culture(s) we are always speaking in general terms. What Walter is referring to from a more technical/academic perspective is called "Power distance" it is one of the concepts developed by Hofstede.

For anyone interested in what makes a society (in terms of culture) the way it is, and how it is perceived by the self and the other, read Edward T. Hall, Geert Hofstede, a W.B Gudykunst, just to name a few. There is also a neat app for iphone called Culture GPS, the lite ed is free and it is based on the theoretical framework of Hofstede.

Not only is power distance a very notable difference between West/East cultures, but the notion of uncertainty avoidance, and concepts of "hi/low context" explain a lot of the on the nature of encounters with locals as well as anything related to traffic and driving. Two things most important for the avid adventurer travelling the world.

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Old 02-22-2013, 12:36 PM   #4007
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Originally Posted by MeinMotorrad View Post
there are links to some pretty gruesome videos of mob violence.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=618066
"This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy on shocking and disgusting content."

oh boy, I'm glad I'm able to make my own informed decision as to what counts as legitimate social observation, and what is comparable in value to "two girls, one cup". thanks, YouTube. the jokes about the Great Firewall of China just write themselves, don't they?
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #4008
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2 girls one cup! Seen that, ONCE!

After that I just looked away every time I forced it on someone else

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Old 02-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #4009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbravo View Post
Technically, your picture from zakusochnaya is slightly off, exactly because belyashi would be fried, and a generic pirozhok s myasom would be baked
I think thats very theoretical. While in a proper restaurant, I would indeed expect a pirozhuk to be baked, I have almost never seen a baked pirozhuk in a zakusochnaya ... frying is faster and easier ... so they seem to fry pirozhki in the crummy level of cafe's i find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbravo View Post
I can also tell from experience that belyashi usually have kind of juicier stuffing
You mean like a Cheburek? Where you have to watch out for boiling hot juices and fat dripping out and burning your skin while you eat? ... yes, true, that seems less of a problem with a pirozhuk s myasom.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:33 PM   #4010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhorehayTheBarbarian View Post
I was able to make my journey based on my business involvement in exporting thousands of motos to china over the last 6-7 years. They have very strict regulations on engine size and models allowed to be imported... But the demand and supply is rapidly getting larger. There are lot of politics involved... but a change is happening I can assure you the next 10+ years will show a lot more motorcycling in China.
Absolutely - and I totally agree with that ... cultural values are definitely are not static. Once a generation of China's kids grown up with all the trappings of the good life, they will get bored with it and seek wilder pastures in order to prove themselves - in order to "achieve". Maybe then the worlds largest market will start making their own top quality adventure motorcycles. Maybe a Chinese movie star will make a documentary riding a Chinese adventure bike around the US and Canada, and it (adventure motorcycling) will becoming the coolest thing there, almost overnight.

Its all possible
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:38 PM   #4011
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Originally Posted by GSlite View Post
Yup. Have you read Gaurav Jani's journals or watched his films? Great stuff. And he's a super nice and humble guy.
Yes I have ... and I am very good friends with another Indian adv motorcyclist, LovemaX who has also done some amazing rides in that part of the world:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272604

and in Europe. And he has become in recent years probably the best adventure motorcycle photographer I have seen. (the pics in the report above are quite old and nowhere near as stunning as many of his more recent pics, since his photography really took off).

I think these guys are a totally typical of the strong propensity of Indian guys to embrace adventure motorcycling in a fantastic way. When you consider the limited resources, and the fact that India is surrounded by borders that are very difficult for them to cross (Pakistan, China, Burma) making international adv motorcycling very difficult for them, these guys do really amazing stuff.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:55 PM   #4012
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Originally Posted by 02short View Post
When I see these pics I wonder what the gearheads in Russia would have done had they had the same freedoms and resources as those of us in the west. There seems to be no shortage of ingenuity given what they had to work with.
They have plenty of ingenuity for sure ... but a shortage of small block chevs and 351 clevelands to drop into their old Ladas and Volgas ... which limits how dramatic they can go.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:56 PM   #4013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsteel53 View Post
"This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy on shocking and disgusting content."

oh boy, I'm glad I'm able to make my own informed decision as to what counts as legitimate social observation, and what is comparable in value to "two girls, one cup". thanks, YouTube. the jokes about the Great Firewall of China just write themselves, don't they?

That's weird, they played for me. I kinda wish the first one had not. Very sad and disturbing.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:37 PM   #4014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stemic01 View Post
Went from Montana to Peru fall 2012
Steve you are a traveling fool.....any trip report on that one?
Was it anticlimactic after mother Russia?

I will do it myself in 2013. IF I can keep Erik out of the "Coffee Shop" long enough to send some parts
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:43 PM   #4015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
I think these guys are a totally typical of the strong propensity of Indian guys to embrace adventure motorcycling in a fantastic way. When you consider the limited resources, and the fact that India is surrounded by borders that are very difficult for them to cross (Pakistan, China, Burma) making international adv motorcycling very difficult for them, these guys do really amazing stuff.
Agreed. And the bridge scene in One Crazy Ride made my palms sweat as much as the Vitim bridge stories and videos
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:50 PM   #4016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stemic01 View Post
I have not made a advrider report from the S.America trip yet. The plan is to make it when I've got more time.
XC: Bought a used XC from an advrider Inmate in Montana, US. That is were the my America trip started.
Other travelers were going on all kind of bikes. BMW G650, F800, 1200GS, some older Suzuki and Honda stuff. I did not see one single Xchallenge or Xcountry.
My trip from Norway to Russia were supposed to be a solo ride, but I met pepole and rode some alone and some with others. The America part of my trip I rode with two friends for most of the time. We also met others which joined us for some days/weeks. Gringo trail: We did drive more on the Pan American highways than off it, but we tried to get off and do dirt roads.
We started in September ending before christmas. I would say that you should have at least 6 months from USA to Ushuaia and to get somewhere where you can ship your bike from. We had too little time and we could not stop and visit all places we wanted.
Thanks for the update Steve!
Looking forward to your S. America report when you get around to it.
Doing a good Ride Report takes a lot of time/effort. I've never done one.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:03 PM   #4017
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Walter: You are right, there are amazing national differences. I like to travel the backroads of western North America by bike taking in the sights becoming 'part of the land' and visiting National Parks. I'll get to a place like Arches in Utah and I'll spend the day hiking around.

I see few locals. Lots of Americans visit the Parks, but most don't get out of their cars. I see lots of Europeans out hiking around, hoards of Germans and Japanese; and recently more and more South Asians.

No Chinese. When I talk to my Chinese friends:" What if I had a breakdown, it's too dangerous, America is dangerous, Americans don't like Chinese" .....and so on. They frequently seem to have a horror of the unknown where they might have to use their judgement and a fear of physical risk. And yet look at how they drive!!!!! LOL

A few years ago a US military plane flew to Antarctica in the dead of winter with a volunteer crew because of the risk, for a medical emergency. The comment I got was that," Nobody in China would volunteer to do that."

There was genuine puzzlement why anyone would do such a thing. It's just a different way of thinking and kind of strange when you think of the incredible exploration the Chinese were doing in huge sailing ships hundreds of years before the Europeans.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:07 PM   #4018
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The best RR I've ever read. Riding, Culture, Language, Personalities, Experiences, Perspective ... All meshing perfectly.

Walter, you've done good bro. Story-telling is an art, and you've come a long way ... Well done.

Rod, Prutzer, Geir, Beemster, Steve, TB .... Admiration is not strong enough of a word. Fantastic isn't either.

Enjoying the ride, Fred
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:39 PM   #4019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
Hi Mr Wang, I know you are a good Chinese dentist and have a nice apartment in Shanghai and a new Audi, but dont you really want to use your spare cash to buy an off road motorcycle and wrestle it up rocky muddy tracks in the middle of Siberia, with no good food, camping in accommodation you have to haul with you in mosquito infested swamps, crossing bridges where one mistake could cost you your life, and bathing in and drinking freezing river water. He will obviously say "no ... what you suggest is ridiculous. I would rather buy a nice watch for myself, a Chanel handbag for my wife and a family holiday to Paris."
SPOT ON, couldn't have said it better myself.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
...its very possible that a huge country like China with its own cultural momentum and no real dirt biking or adventure travel background is going to embrace adventure motorcycling. If culturally they dont get it, or culturally its not cool to them, then its just not going to happen....
The Chinese motorcyclist are more into big HD's and BMW's to show off at Starbucks / Costa Coffee outlets. Import motorbikes and licensing is very-very expensive (around 3x times the price compared to bike prices in the west add to that around 20000US$ for just a license plate in downtown Shanghai).
HD's are by far the most favourite bikes for the chinese, big - loud - heavy and great for showing off (face matter among friends, co-workers, family, etc..)
Must say HOG (Harley Owners Group) China has quite a big following and is very active.

Started a China thread in the Asia section of ADVrider but nothing compares to this thread (RR) in my books.
The English forum www.mychinamoto.com gives some info about general motorbiking and bikes in ML China.

Now back to the regular program with this fantastic ride report, brilliant reading... RIDE ON....
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:42 PM   #4020
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Something about this continuing conversation reminds me of -------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colebatch View Post
I think thats very theoretical. While in a proper restaurant, I would indeed expect a pirozhuk to be baked, I have almost never seen a baked pirozhuk in a zakusochnaya ... frying is faster and easier ... so they seem to fry pirozhki in the crummy level of cafe's i find.



You mean like a Cheburek? Where you have to watch out for boiling hot juices and fat dripping out and burning your skin while you eat? ... yes, true, that seems less of a problem with a pirozhuk s myasom.
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Who goes there?
King Arthur: It is I, Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon, from the castle of Camelot. King of the Britons, defeater of the Saxons, Sovereign of all England!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Pull the other one!
King Arthur: I am, and this is my trusty servant Patsy. We have ridden the length and breadth of the land in search of knights who will join me in my court at Camelot. I must speak with your lord and master.
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: What? Ridden on a horse?
King Arthur: Yes!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: You're using coconuts!
King Arthur: What?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: You've got two empty halves of coconut and you're bangin' 'em together.
King Arthur: So? We have ridden since the snows of winter covered this land, through the kingdom of Mercia, through...
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Where'd you get the coconuts?
King Arthur: We found them.
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Found them? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical!
King Arthur: What do you mean?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Well, this is a temperate zone
King Arthur: The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
King Arthur: Not at all. They could be carried.
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: What? A swallow carrying a coconut?
King Arthur: It could grip it by the husk!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut.
King Arthur: Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here?
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?
King Arthur: Please!
1st soldier with a keen interest in birds: Am I right?


But then I have a 'Python" sense of humor.
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