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Old 02-22-2013, 04:45 PM   #16
sixstringsteve
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Bump. Way to challenge the status quo! I'm excited to see where this bike ends up.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:09 PM   #17
Fast1
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I still think that first 1973 Honda CR125 Elsinore had everything I needed in the day.. but hey that was just about 40 years ago.. the suspension certainly has improved and mitigated all the broken foot peg mounts but at a bit less than 190lbs it ripped and even flat filing the head with a file to add some compression paid off.. . Wondering how a 40 year old 2 stroke would fair against a modern day smoker in straight line acceleration?
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:29 AM   #18
craydds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast1 View Post
I still think that first 1974 Honda CR125 Elsinore had everything I needed in the day.. but hey that was just about 40 years ago.. the suspension certainly has improved and mitigated all the broken foot peg mounts ---
Brings back a lot of great riding memories! I grew up riding those bikes, and I had the pleasure (?) of breaking the foot pegs on my Suzuki 125. Come off of a huge jump, land so hard, and WHAM... broken foot peg.
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #19
Fast1
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20 years.. night and day..

If 2 stroke direct injection appears anytime soon this will be in my garage..

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/08/13...-resurrection/


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Old 02-24-2013, 07:01 AM   #20
Grreatdog
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To answer the original question in a word: yes. They have evolved a lot. The competition bikes I am most familiar from back in the day are the YZ250 and IT175/200's. Comparing those to my MXC is interesting with the YZ but not worth the effort with the IT. My KTM is in a different universe from those IT's. It is way faster on top, has more grunt on bottom plus infinitely better suspension and brakes. I would even bet a month's pay it could hang with or beat the big bore IT's.

What I find interesting is my MXC would probably also beat those old YZ's around an MX track while still being a good trail bike. Obviously I am working from memory, but my 200 feels like it hits and pulls about the same but with a wider spread of power. So with the motors on more or less equal footing, the better brakes and suspension would easily win the day. Even my ten year old MXC is light years ahead of eighties and early 90's MX bikes much less enduros.

Every time I ride that MXC it floors me how fast and light it is. It vibrates like a big bore and drinks fuel like a Hummer. But it also flat out hauls ass while sucking up everything you hit from rocks to jumps. It makes me want an EXC300 in the worst way.
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Old 02-24-2013, 11:35 AM   #21
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Emissions compliant 2-stroke!

Quote:
Originally Posted by buls4evr View Post
Yamaha has really upgraded 2 stroke technology but uses it only on their snow machines not on bikes. Perhaps Husky's new 300 2T in 2014 will get them all thinking about this again. just watch the endurocross circuit or chk out the weekend warriors on Michigan single track. Many of them are still keeping or going BACK TO 2Ts.
Fuel Injected 2-Stroke!

The #1 Reason Manufacturers do not support 2-stroke development and do not import more 2-strokes into the US: Emissions.

The Ossa EFI direct into the cylinder is a significant development: EU emissions compliant!
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/04/16...eturn-feature/

Support the Ossa initiative:

We really hope the new Ossa technology takes hold. Snowmobile manufacturers developed the 2-stroke technology to address high unburned hydrocarbon (UHC) emissions from carburated 2-strokes. The technology does exist and is mature, and we hoped a mainstream European manufacturer like KTM/Husaberg + Husqvarna would take the initiative. Most of the European 2-stroke initiative is driven by the Trials manufacturers (GasGas, Sherco, Beta) that require light weight and torque. Emissions compliant 2-strokes would open a completely new alternative.


If these Ossa EFI models do well in the USA it may be a harbinger of a viable market and the other manufacturers may quickly follow suit. It's interesting that the same dynamics affected the outboard motor and the snowmobile industry.

There were three Ossa Explorers at the PITS event at Frank Raines OHV this weekend. Very cool. I had the chance to catch up briefly with Adrian Lewis of LewisportUSA He is the US importer for Ossa, and recently brought in and sold most of his Ossa Explorer inventory. General opinion on riding the new Ossa: felt narrower and lighter than the GasGas.

Shameless plug for LewisportUSA: Convince your local dealer to carry Ossa!

We discussed his plans to import the Ossa 300i... now this is too cool: 2-stroke EFI running 120:1 premix ratios to meet EU emissions.

Strong F1 influence: The engine cants backward, Intake is in front, exhaust is behind the engine (a la Cannondale 440) and isn't vulnerably exposed. Cartridge gearbox. Crankshaft and conrod accessible from side.



Here's the 2011 concept bike:

Quote:
Originally Posted by louemc View Post
This category sizzles, Sweet Fantic .

I was just in at Lewis Sports USA..They were uncrating the new Ossa's.

OMG The Design Quantum Leap...Comes in two versions...Trials or normal seat.

Cylinder lays back like the rear cylinder of a V twin.
EXhaust out the back, Fuel injection intake at front.

Lewis Sports can tweek the injection and the ignition to the riders style (or level), from a lap-top.

All transmission gear cluster comes out cartridge style, on one side,

Engine crank out the other side, after connecting rod is dis-connected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buls4evr View Post
Why not run a 200 KTM? It seems to meet all your needs and already has good torque.
Other than my GasGas Trials bike, I've been fortunate to own a GasGas EC300 that I was able to transform to Fantic TR300ES specs and get California street license plates:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
To answer the original question in a word: yes. They have evolved a lot.
By 20-years, I meant since 1993 when we already had liquid cooling, reed valve intakes, exhaust power valves, linked (or PDS) rear suspension, cartridge forks, CDI, and 2-stroke oil that stayed suspended in gasoline (remember emptying your gas tank and float bowl after every event?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast1 View Post
memories.. they certainly give me the wish to be able to turn back the clock..
My apologies to the OP for going back 40 years instead of 20.. which is an entirely different topic.
I'm with you - I'm still very nostalgic on the : air-cooled, piston port, twin-shock/damper rod technology I grew up with.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:35 PM   #22
Navin
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They haven't changed enough to matter!

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Old 03-31-2013, 11:10 AM   #23
Foot dragger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tHEtREV View Post
You seem to make a lot of assumptions based on spec sheets.

There is more to a motorcycle than a spec sheet, some bikes look great on paper but shit in the flesh, and some bikes should be crap according to the specs, but seem to work really well.

Ride a 93 bike and a current bike and get back to us.
Yah,I ended up with a 93 RMX250 here cause it was cheap and fresh,1 ride and it was put aside for the KTM's Ive ridden for many years.
No comparison what so ever between old and new.

Riding a 125 off road is an aquired art and not for everybody,they're light and work great if you can run the clutch and engine as they are intended to be run. I ride a 09 KTM200XCW currently and it works for me on the tight trails around here. It may not be that much lighter then a current 250/300 but it feels lighter and changes direction instantly.

A KDX is ok if you like that sort of thing,slow and heavy come to mind,then antiquated would be next.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:13 AM   #24
Foot dragger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast1 View Post
20 years.. night and day..

If 2 stroke direct injection appears anytime soon this will be in my garage..

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/08/13...-resurrection/


What is the strong need for DI about? 2 strokes run fine with carbs and the barest know how of jetting them. They are simple beasts.
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:12 PM   #25
slideways
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firecrotch View Post
My 01 cr250 had that "holy shit" kind of power that would put any of the new bikes to shame. As a matter of fact service honda uses toe 01 motor in its new cr 250's. Newer isn't always better
Out of the box the 01 motor had no bottom a weak mid range and a huge rush on top. Not very usable unless you are road racing. Also the jetting was a nightmare.

I immediately ordered up a new cylinder and head from Eric Gore who used a lot of epoxy to increase the volumetric efficiency and also reworked the head. Boysen reeds and some flywheel weight helped smooth things out. An FMF fatty put the CR ON par with my YZ.



I still think the best bang for your buck is a 06 plus YZ 250 or 125. You cannot beat SSS suspension
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by sixstringsteve View Post
Bump. Way to challenge the status quo! I'm excited to see where this bike ends up.
Epilogue: Sold the CR125R to fund a current KTM200MXC "Cheap Bast'd" project.

The new owners ran the CR125R without pre-mix oil; damaged the piston; then traded it to the current owner for a pool-table. The CR125R was last seen listed on CL after a Namura piston replacement by the current owner for $1500: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/mcy/3843190452.html

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Old 02-14-2014, 03:54 PM   #27
shrubitup
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1998 KTM 125 for the win. No better than the 2014 KTM 125SX model per Shane Watts.

http://youtu.be/qyEeIhf0j88
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:12 AM   #28
Sp4rks
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
What is the strong need for DI about? 2 strokes run fine with carbs and the barest know how of jetting them. They are simple beasts.
Mostly for emissions and MPG.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:23 AM   #29
woods wizard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrubitup View Post
1998 KTM 125 for the win. No better than the 2014 KTM 125SX model per Shane Watts.

http://youtu.be/qyEeIhf0j88
Great vid... I think I will keep my 04 250 exc
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:09 PM   #30
tHEtREV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sp4rks View Post
Mostly for emissions and MPG.
The only attraction for me is the apparently vastly improved fuel usage rate.

That is my only complaint about two strokes, and I would use my Gas Gas on a few outback trips except for the need for a huge amount of fuel to cover small distances.

All my four strokes used under 6l per 100K, my 2 strokes seem to use 10l per 100, DI apparently brings fuel usage more inline with the four strokes.
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