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Old 02-24-2013, 01:35 PM   #76
clintnz
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Originally Posted by rtwpaul View Post
interjected with crazy dirt riding moments
A man after me own 'art

Some good advice above. One thing I'll add; reinforce your subframe. (see p2 of that thread also)

Come visit when you hit NZ. Crazy dirt riding & LC4 maintenance are local specialities

I'll be interested to see what you come up with for lighting, I'm thinking of upgrading mine, current idea is a cheap std 7" round H4, plus an aux LED spot & an integrated small windscreen. The present stock setup is only slightly less arse than the 625 version light wise but it is similarly light weight & damage resistant.

Cheers
Clint
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The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?

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Old 02-24-2013, 01:46 PM   #77
daveburton
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DR v KTM

Thanks for the feedback chaps, looks like the big bore DR might be out. It's difficult really but a lot of fun looking at different options.
I just rode my GSA 7000+ miles in South America and it worked great but not in difficult off road conditions.
I think if you are going to be 2 up then the actual bike weight probably matters a lot less given the weight of 2 people plus gear. When we travel 2 up we weigh 180 kilos including ourselves and all our kit/tools etc. We need about 180ltrs of space inc tank bag.

Is that a reasonable assumption or does the bike weight still count a lot, if so what would be the min power for 2 up work. I think about 80HP at sea level works well due to the loss of probably 30HP at 5000m.

Do the weights, volumes and HP sound OK.

If we exclude cost as a criteria what would be your choice for ADV travel, a) 1 up and b) 2 up. With, say, 30% dirt road (ie still road but no concrete or asphalt)

I'll get out of your way now Paul, thanks for the feedback. I'm looking forwards to seeing what you build, I'm still amazed you managed to find that bike with such a low mileage.

cheers dave
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #78
rtwpaul OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
A man after me own 'art

Some good advice above. One thing I'll add; reinforce your subframe. (see p2 of that thread also)

Come visit when you hit NZ. Crazy dirt riding & LC4 maintenance are local specialities

I'll be interested to see what you come up with for lighting, I'm thinking of upgrading mine, current idea is a cheap std 7" round H4, plus an aux LED spot & an integrated small windscreen. The present stock setup is only slightly less arse than the 625 version light wise but it is similarly light weight & damage resistant.

Cheers
Clint
it was one of the first things i checked when i looked the bike over, nothing done so i can brace it accordingly, for strength and longevity too

you might want to look into resonating/ vibration, from the larger front frame area and then reducing in size to the rear may be putting additional stress back there too on some of the joints and bends and hairline crack welds, also careful not to undercut your welds as this creates weak points

never presume the original factory welds are perfect, while you have yours apart i would double check every single joint

also when you add structure (bracing) looking into getting some dimpling dies then you can add the strength but reduce the weight significantly at the same time for the added material

i will be in touch for sure when i get there, nothing like a local guide who has a well equipped garage, i'll provide the welding classes and crazy stories if you provide the beers
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:19 PM   #79
rtwpaul OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveburton View Post
I think if you are going to be 2 up then the actual bike weight probably matters a lot less given the weight of 2 people plus gear.

I think about 80HP at sea level works well due to the loss of probably 30HP at 5000m.

I'll get out of your way now Paul, thanks for the feedback. I'm looking forwards to seeing what you build, I'm still amazed you managed to find that bike with such a low mileage.

cheers dave
two up riding is a whole different animal than what i'm looking at here, i'm looking at soft luggage, minimal everything basically, lots of time away from civilization to places that have minimal bike tracks whenever possible and is geared towards my selfishness of wanting to go where i want to go and not having to worry if the bike can come along, and more to the point get back wink:

my build is geared more towards what you have been reading in Walter Colebatch's ride report

also i wouldn't take riding at 5000 meter into consideration unless you are spending a lot of time in the Himalayas around Nepal or the Andes...i would be looking more at averages 1500-3000 meters....i think a more suitable bike for what you are talking about maybe a BMW F800 or the Triumph XC 800 with the new huge aftermarket gas tank
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:51 PM   #80
gunnerbuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
A man after me own 'art

Some good advice above. One thing I'll add; reinforce your subframe. (see p2 of that thread also)

Come visit when you hit NZ. Crazy dirt riding & LC4 maintenance are local specialities

I'll be interested to see what you come up with for lighting, I'm thinking of upgrading mine, current idea is a cheap std 7" round H4, plus an aux LED spot & an integrated small windscreen. The present stock setup is only slightly less arse than the 625 version light wise but it is similarly light weight & damage resistant.

Cheers
Clint
Hi Clintz,
Just curious, with your subframe cracking were you running luggage racks that brace down to the footpeg area or just a unbraced load on the tail with softbags...

I have gotten away with 160,000 km on the original sub frame and this incudes about 20,000 - 30,000 km of loaded 2 up travel... This I think is due to the extra strength my luggage rack setup provides to the rear end... I have had to weld the luggage bracket braces a couple times due to some stress cracks but never the subframe...

Paul, with you being an accomplished welder you could come up with some kind of lightweight bracing similar to what the racks give... If you are running softbags the braces could be made to hold them away from the muffler/ sidepanel... I believe this would be stronger than adding gussets into the existing rear framework as long as the bracing properly lines up to the bolt holes with out stress... I see on the rally bikes they add an extra strut to help support the extra weight of the fuel tanks... Have you got something like this in mind?
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:03 PM   #81
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtwpaul View Post
it was one of the first things i checked when i looked the bike over, nothing done so i can brace it accordingly, for strength and longevity too
Sounds like you're on to it The amount of metal you need to add is fairly minimal really.

Another thing to think about while modding the subframe is the rack attachment points. I'm currently making new soft pannier racks & stronger tail rack mounts & have bored out the rear bolt holes to take 8mm rather than the std 6mm fasteners which have broken a couple of times.

Cheers
Clint
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The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #82
rtwpaul OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
Hi Clintz,
Just curious, with your subframe cracking were you running luggage racks that brace down to the footpeg area or just a unbraced load on the tail with softbags...

I have gotten away with 160,000 km on the original sub frame and this incudes about 20,000 - 30,000 km of loaded 2 up travel... This I think is due to the extra strength my luggage rack setup provides to the rear end... I have had to weld the luggage bracket braces a couple times due to some stress cracks but never the subframe...

Paul, with you being an accomplished welder you could come up with some kind of lightweight bracing similar to what the racks give... If you are running softbags the braces could be made to hold them away from the muffler/ sidepanel... I believe this would be stronger than adding gussets into the existing rear framework as long as the bracing properly lines up to the bolt holes with out stress... I see on the rally bikes they add an extra strut to help support the extra weight of the fuel tanks... Have you got something like this in mind?
i was intrigued about this as well as there are a lot of mention of luggage racks adding strength...maybe it was his big endo abilties???

as for racks can you add a photo of yours to this thread with no bags on them? for reference purposes

for mine i will probably got with the standard wolfman rack as i will be using their luggage and most of the difficult work has been done, but then i will add bracing and cross bracing plus some triangulation to make it real sturdy just in case it want to take a nap on the trail, but i'll also do some gusset work as well...as the English say "belt and braces"

as for the tank, having not bought one before i will have to wait and see, but from what i understand the crossbrace is usually made of swiss cheese so that will have to go and something custom thrown together
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:10 PM   #83
gunnerbuck
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Originally Posted by rtwpaul View Post
i was intrigued about this as well as there are a lot of mention of luggage racks adding strength...maybe it was his big endo abilties???

as for racks can you add a photo of yours to this thread with no bags on them? for reference purposes
Will do...
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:56 PM   #84
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
Hi Clintz,
Just curious, with your subframe cracking were you running luggage racks that brace down to the footpeg area or just a unbraced load on the tail with softbags...
They did attach down at the pax peg mount also but were not really rigid enough to provide any support to the subframe:



They cracked at the front mounts once per side, & broke the long cap screws at the back twice, but this was over probably 70K+ km of loaded touring & a few crashes. I just got some 5/8" dia .049" wall 4130 tube to make the Mk2 versions out of & have been machining up some beefier mounting bushes. The new ones will be similar in layout but might be stiff enough to brace the back end a bit.

I got no idea why my subframe has been less durable than yours Gunner...





I think the first breakage I had owed a lot to Australian corrugations while carrying camping gear & extra gas, although I travel fairly light compared to many. The extra gusset I put in after the 2nd breakage really should have been done during the first repair in hindsight.

Cheers
Clint
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'03 KTM 640 LC4 Enduro

The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?

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Old 02-24-2013, 04:24 PM   #85
Boon Booni
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Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
They did attach down at the pax peg mount also but were not really rigid enough to provide any support to the subframe:




Cheers
Clint
Not to side track this thread, but do you have any more info on those braces?
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:38 PM   #86
gunnerbuck
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Here is string of rack pictures:

These are the HB racks on my project bike..

The bracing to the foot peg frame is good but this little strut up to the panel mount seems overkill and makes more of a pain to get the panel off...


The rear portion hangs off a saddle plate made of spring steel which bolts to the rear center subframe cross member and I have a fastener that connects the fender to the rear brace which bolts through behind the license plate...

The HB racks on my project bike are made from heavier stock than the MS units on my main bike pictured below...


The MS also brace to the foot peg bracket but without the extra strut...

How they fasten to the rear...


I like the way the rear fastens to subframe with a box clamp rather than the HBs saddle plate...

Here is the underside showing the clamp, don't mind the mud as this is my daily commuter to work... If I wash this one day it looks the same the next as I have a 30 km comute on dirt tracks to get to my worksite...



The Adventure fuel tank bracing..
f

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Old 02-24-2013, 04:53 PM   #87
rtwpaul OP
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i will have to get my bike to look at and compare mounting point to see if they are are all still intact




thanks for making Sunday great...nothing beats looking at a nice rack







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Old 02-24-2013, 05:08 PM   #88
clintnz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtwpaul View Post
for mine i will probably got with the standard wolfman rack as i will be using their luggage and most of the difficult work has been done,
Do Wolfman do a 640 rack? Their stuff does look good, there isn't much available in the way of minimalist soft bag mounts, that's why I made my own, plus a couple of sets for my girlfriend's bikes, some for my bro's 690, some for a friends XT250...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
Not to side track this thread, but do you have any more info on those braces?
They were the first set I made with some help from a friend, more details here They are a little flimsy but the material costs were $0 & it's taken me 8 years & 110K km to get around to making something better so they can't be too bad

Cheers
Clint
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'03 KTM 640 LC4 Enduro

The wilderness, the desert - why are they not crowded
.................................................. .....with pilgrims?

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Old 02-24-2013, 06:21 PM   #89
rtwpaul OP
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Do Wolfman do a 640 rack? Their stuff does look good, there isn't much available in the way of minimalist soft bag mounts

Cheers
Clint
wolfman don't make a mount to fit the LC4, but i know the guys there and today i got a PM back from the sales director who agreed to send me a set of mounts unfinished so i can make them to fit, i'll reinforce to the frame on the bike by the passenger mount most likely using 5/8 OD 3/8 ID cm DOM tubing and then as you noted open the hole up to make way for a larger bolt for added strength

also talking to him they now have a new set of softbags out called Rocky Mountain Saddle Bags they are bigger 32 liters per bag, should be more than enough for everything, might even have to buy some extra stuff to fill them!!!
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:34 PM   #90
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Wow Guys, Paul,
This thread grew legs.

I've been skiing for a couple of days...
34 miles on skiis yesterday.
http://www.birkie.com/

So...much of the discussion of problems on this thread would be solved by trading the SXC for a 640 Adventure.
In the bargain you get the big tank, a faring that is the best in the business, a cush drive and a BST carb.

Slap on Touratech panniers and....

"Tonto, she's already ready to ride."

Just saying. Trying to be polite.
bill

Oops, forgot the lights brothers...dual headlights on the Adventure!!!
The SXC is not a travel bike, it can be made into one.
b
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