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Old 02-23-2013, 05:45 PM   #74056
acesandeights
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Yep
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Old 02-23-2013, 05:58 PM   #74057
jessepitt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planemanx15 View Post
Thanks for all the suggestions everybody, I opened everything thing up and found the issue:
The valves were completely fine.

As you can imagine I'm pretty disturbed. Everything ran fine, even on the highway going out to the twistys. On the ride back i assume the rings expanded too much and this happened. As I said in my build thread, I did not measure the end gap. I assume had I done this, I could be riding today.

Dang, I guess I was being optimistic thinking it was a valve. Sorry for your misfortune.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:12 PM   #74058
Rob.G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry94025 View Post
That kind of scoring happens when the oil film fails. Not sure how much engine experience you have, but are the rings positioned correctly? The compression rings are usually directional; they have a top indicated with a dot or other mark. If they were upside down, the blow-by would cause the oil film to fail.
I remember when I did my snowmobile top-end years ago that I posted about, they told me very specifically that the rings went on a certain way and the gap had to face a certain way. I wonder if this step might have been missed in addition to proper gapping?

I'd be tempted to send the cylinder back to Jeff... he's the master of the 790.. I honestly wouldn't want to trust anybody else but him when it comes to determining if the cylinder is still good. Maybe even see if you can pay him a little extra to install and gap the rings for you before shipping the replacement parts out -- assuming they will travel okay like that.

Rob
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:29 PM   #74059
planemanx15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
I remember when I did my snowmobile top-end years ago that I posted about, they told me very specifically that the rings went on a certain way and the gap had to face a certain way. I wonder if this step might have been missed in addition to proper gapping?

I'd be tempted to send the cylinder back to Jeff... he's the master of the 790.. I honestly wouldn't want to trust anybody else but him when it comes to determining if the cylinder is still good. Maybe even see if you can pay him a little extra to install and gap the rings for you before shipping the replacement parts out -- assuming they will travel okay like that.

Rob
I did install the rings in the correct direction. They are marked and the directions tell you which way to install them.

Jeff emailed me and offered to hone the cylinder and to purchase a new piston.

I want to personally thank him publicly on here for his generous offer. There aren't many guys like him, thank you so much!
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:37 PM   #74060
Rob.G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planemanx15 View Post
I did install the rings in the correct direction. They are marked and the directions tell you which way to install them.

Jeff emailed me and offered to hone the cylinder and to purchase a new piston.

I want to personally thank him publicly on here for his generous offer. There aren't many guys like him, thank you so much!
Awesome! Yep, Jeff's a great guy. It was great the day I got to meet him. He gave me a tour of the shop and everything. Every time I go down there, everybody there is just tops.

So... do we know yet what the problem was? If the rings were put on the right way, was it the gap that was the culprit?

Rob
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:52 PM   #74061
planemanx15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob.G View Post
Awesome! Yep, Jeff's a great guy. It was great the day I got to meet him. He gave me a tour of the shop and everything. Every time I go down there, everybody there is just tops.

So... do we know yet what the problem was? If the rings were put on the right way, was it the gap that was the culprit?

Rob
My theory is that since I didn't do the ring gaps, they expanded with the heat and pressure and scoured the cylinder and piston. This created some free play and the noise that was heard was the piston not seated properly.

Any other opinions would be appreciated.
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:32 PM   #74062
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planemanx15 View Post
My theory is that since I didn't do the ring gaps, they expanded with the heat and pressure and scoured the cylinder and piston. This created some free play and the noise that was heard was the piston not seated properly.

Any other opinions would be appreciated.
I'm certain the ring gap is the cause of the problem. I just put the top end on the DR900 Stroker Motor and the top ring had about .006" gap before filing.

Performance rings are normally sized to require filing or grinding to give the desired gap. There are lots of variables that prevent the rings from being sized precisely out of the box. The ring manufacturer relies on the engine builder to adjust the gap for his specific setup.
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #74063
doug s.
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Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I'm certain the ring gap is the cause of the problem. I just put the top end on the DR900 Stroker Motor and the top ring had about .006" gap before filing.

Performance rings are normally sized to require filing or grinding to give the desired gap. There are lots of variables that prevent the rings from being sized precisely out of the box. The ring manufacturer relies on the engine builder to adjust the gap for his specific setup.
a little ot, but have you had any experience w/totalseal rings? comments?

thanks,

doug s.

ps - about your tag line - do you really think the guy who invented the 1st wheel and the 2nd wheel were different guys?
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:55 PM   #74064
Harry94025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planemanx15 View Post
My theory is that since I didn't do the ring gaps, they expanded with the heat and pressure and scoured the cylinder and piston. This created some free play and the noise that was heard was the piston not seated properly.

Any other opinions would be appreciated.
Ok, I can see the ring gap being the issue. The ring gaps are very easy to set. Get a small fine mill file, hold the file tang in a vise, and run the ring gap ends on both sides of the file with light pressure. You're moving the work piece (ring) while the tool is held stationary...

Harry
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:43 AM   #74065
Thumper Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
a little ot, but have you had any experience w/totalseal rings? comments?

thanks,

doug s.

ps - about your tag line - do you really think the guy who invented the 1st wheel and the 2nd wheel were different guys?

Perhaps the first guy liked to ride a unicycle
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:04 AM   #74066
procycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug s. View Post
have you had any experience w/totalseal rings? comments?
I have not had any personal experience with Total Seal rings but I did look into them for the 790 kits. They don't offer 'off the shelf' rings in the correct size but there are some for a .002" bigger bore that could probably be used. Total seal rings still have to be gapped before installation. Total Seal calls for a bigger gap spec - .0065" or more per inch of bore. That would be .028" on the 790. The feature that makes them 'gapless' is an insert that fits under the ring that bridges the gap in the main ring.
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:27 PM   #74067
Harry94025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planemanx15 View Post
My theory is that since I didn't do the ring gaps, they expanded with the heat and pressure and scoured the cylinder and piston. This created some free play and the noise that was heard was the piston not seated properly.

Any other opinions would be appreciated.
Planemanx15,

One last thing... Remember that the metal that used to be part of your piston skirt is now somewhere in the engine. I would check the crank and connecting rod bearings very carefully by rotating them by hand to sense any roughness. Remove the oil filter and cut it apart; hopefully you'll see evidence of the metal trapped there. Drain the oil and see if you see silvery bits of aluminum, then flush things out as best as you can. The oil cooler would also be a good candidate for a flush.

Regards,
Harry
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:27 PM   #74068
SkunkWizard
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Owners Manual

DR 650SE 1st. Generation Owners Manual (1994 printing)
Free!

PM me, pay for postage and it's yours (USA only)

not a shop manual very good condition Owners Manual

1st person to contact me gets it
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:34 PM   #74069
planemanx15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry94025 View Post
Planemanx15,

One last thing... Remember that the metal that used to be part of your piston skirt is now somewhere in the engine. I would check the crank and connecting rod bearings very carefully by rotating them by hand to sense any roughness. Remove the oil filter and cut it apart; hopefully you'll see evidence of the metal trapped there. Drain the oil and see if you see silvery bits of aluminum, then flush things out as best as you can. The oil cooler would also be a good candidate for a flush.

Regards,
Harry
Thanks for the advice, ill be sure to do this.
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Old 02-24-2013, 09:37 PM   #74070
Garak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by procycle View Post
I just put the top end on the DR900 Stroker Motor
I haven't had time to keep up with this thread lately, but that got my attention! Can't wait to see how it plays out Jeff!
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