2013 Honda CBR500R and CB500F

[Bugz]

Originally Posted by Cortez

First bold re: revs - That's amazing. 6th gear is probably an overdrive or close,
just like on the NC700. That's the same revs I had on my 650R (which has
50% more power).

Second bold re: vibrations - That's EXACTLY what I said would happen in
this and other threads when people asked me why I consider the NC700
to be a better choice.

It vibrates because of the 180 deg. crank, and that drove me crazy on
my 650R. Can't be as bad on a smaller engine, but still, all things equal,
I'd get the 700 just because of the 270 crank. Screw the weight difference,
the bike feels 100lbs lighter then it is.

My marks on harmonic vibrations wern't that high, though I can't see how a 180 crank should have different harmonic distortins compared to a 270 crank. They should have equal free forces and free moments (figured they have the same amount of countershafts and they are placed according to their crankshafts).

The parallel twin of the NC 700 is just really cultivated. I think if it had a 180 crank it would vibrate as much as it does now.
Reason a V-motor compared to a parralel twin (which has a 270 crank) has less vibrations is (I think) because the pistons are actually removing free forces from eachother. A V-motor is naturally better balanced.

I could be wrong on some points.

I'll try look that up this week if I find a few hours, should be interesting.

I'd go with the 700 as well. Only thing I really don't like is the filler placement but many people already said that with the right strap on thingies it's a non issue. The 700 should be a 300K motor.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by Bugz

Absolutely sure. For every new 'class' of license you have to take a new exam.
If you get a A1 license (under age of 24) it will never become a 'full' license. The only way to obtain a full license instantly is when you're 24+ so you can take the 'A' exam. That's quite a bit of money for every new license (probably between 150- 300 euro's each time your taking an exam)

That's probably why it's over 800 euros here.

[Mobiker]

I don't think these have been linked yet:

http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial...cb500f-tested/

http://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial...0r-first-test/

Fuel mileage is disappointing on the R. Roland only got 55 imp (45.8 US).

[Cortez]

As I stated earlier, the 500 in the regular journo's hands will probably be
more thirsty then the 700 since they tend to trash everything, and the
700 gives zero fux to trashing in regards to MPG changes.


I'm sure they can have the same MPGs nevertheless if ridden normally,
and up to about 75.

[fragile_this_side_up]

Thanks for the review from thailand. Now I dont really know which bike to get. Haha

[RaY YreKa]

John McGuiness is going to be running a CBR500R at the IoM Lightweight TT.

His team think they can get 85bhp out of the engine, which they say is heavily restricted in stock form.

Of course, that's down on the 100bhp tuned ER6f kawasakis (650R) that tend to dominate the class.

Just FYI

[L.B.S.]

Originally Posted by Cortez

First bold re: revs - That's amazing. 6th gear is probably an overdrive or close,
just like on the NC700. That's the same revs I had on my 650R (which has
50% more power).

Second bold re: vibrations - That's EXACTLY what I said would happen in
this and other threads when people asked me why I consider the NC700
to be a better choice.

It vibrates because of the 180 deg. crank, and that drove me crazy on
my 650R. Can't be as bad on a smaller engine, but still, all things equal,
I'd get the 700 just because of the 270 crank. Screw the weight difference,
the bike feels 100lbs lighter then it is.

Exactly why I bought my NC700X!

My BMW F800ST was Lucifer's own paint shaker, and was utterly intolerable. I knew from the start, when it blew every bulb on it, inc. 3 headlights before a few months were over, that it was going to be no fun. The second time the sidestand fell off while riding and the bloody fairing brackets stay bolts went AWOL again, I had already seen the writing on the wall.

Which isn't to say the Exxon Valdez oil spewing leaks catching fire, the continually failing parts and electronics, the massive paint peeling and corrosion, the terrifying camchain death rattle etc., weren't all screaming: "Get thee away, spawn of Satan!"

But that's another story.

[Cortez]

It's interesting how little the F800 vibrations get mentioned actually,
but I can't imagine them since I've never ridden one, and I could live
with the 800R or GT..

The 180 crank on my 650R was a horror, needed rubber mounting etc
which my 2007 didn't have.

The 270 crank on the 700X is spot on.

F800 has some other deal, right?
If I remember correctly both pistons go up and down at the same time?

[L.B.S.]

Originally Posted by Cortez

It's interesting how little the F800 vibrations get mentioned actually,
but I can't imagine them since I've never ridden one, and I could live
with the 800R or GT..

The 180 crank on my 650R was a horror, needed rubber mounting etc
which my 2007 didn't have.

The 270 crank on the 700X is spot on.

F800 has some other deal, right?
If I remember correctly both pistons go up and down at the same time?

Quite so; a 360* arrangement, but with a (pretty neat idea I must admit, but for my particular bike it obviously didn't work...) third connecting rod on the horizontal plane, and a pivoting set up to theoretically equal the mass/throw of the two vertical pistons.

Up until the F800, I'd had many Honda and Yamaha 180* twins, but they were all awesome, plenty of dual counter balancers and so on.

None of my single cyl bikes ever vibrated like the 800 did, either.

[RaY YreKa]

Originally Posted by L.B.S.

Quite so; a 360* arrangement, but with a (pretty neat idea I must admit, but for my particular bike it obviously didn't work...) third connecting rod on the horizontal plane, and a pivoting set up to theoretically equal the mass/throw of the two vertical pistons.

Up until the F800, I'd had many Honda and Yamaha 180* twins, but they were all awesome, plenty of dual counter balancers and so on.

None of my single cyl bikes ever vibrated like the 800 did, either.

BMW, allegedly, tried to engineer-in some boxer vibe to the 800 series.

But it's all in the eyes, or hands, of the beholder.

I've ridden some big I4s that made me stop after 2 hours because my outer fingers were numb.

Not a deal breaker, for me; there's an engine under your arse, after all, and it's going to make some stuff shake.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by L.B.S.

Quite so; a 360* arrangement, but with a (pretty neat idea I must admit, but for my particular bike it obviously didn't work...) third connecting rod on the horizontal plane, and a pivoting set up to theoretically equal the mass/throw of the two vertical pistons.

Up until the F800, I'd had many Honda and Yamaha 180* twins, but they were all awesome, plenty of dual counter balancers and so on.

None of my single cyl bikes ever vibrated like the 800 did, either.

That's amazing..

THe T-max for example has a "fake" 3rd piston with the mass of the other
two combined, going the opposite way, the "active" pistons are probably 360 deg too..

That engine has _no_ vibrations.
It's electric smooth.

Not to steal the thread but.. is the F800 a pain at all revs or is there a "band"?

My 650R was fine up to 6000 or so.

[Bugz]

Originally Posted by Cortez

That's amazing..

THe T-max for example has a "fake" 3rd piston with the mass of the other
two combined, going the opposite way, the "active" pistons are probably 360 deg too..

That engine has _no_ vibrations.
It's electric smooth.

Not to steal the thread but.. is the F800 a pain at all revs or is there a "band"?

My 650R was fine up to 6000 or so.

I got my driver license on a BMW F650GS (the 800cc parallel twin 650, not the thumper).

Obviously it was the only bike I had ever ridden, though I found it very fun to ride and vibrations were really not an issue under 6000 RPM. Bike was geared quite high if I remember correct so with the 650 you could easily maintain 75 mph.

Was also mucho faster than my current cbr250 I guess if I would ride it now it would feel as fast as the Millenium Falcon!

[L.B.S.]

Originally Posted by RaY YreKa

BMW, allegedly, tried to engineer-in some boxer vibe to the 800 series.

But it's all in the eyes, or hands, of the beholder.

I've ridden some big I4s that made me stop after 2 hours because my outer fingers were numb.

Not a deal breaker, for me; there's an engine under your arse, after all, and it's going to make some stuff shake.

Agreed on the individual tolerance for vibes, and how some certain harmonics can be unnoticable for most, but will just nuke other poor bastards.

For me, I draw the line at "going to make some stuff shake" though, when parts and fasteners fly off, all the bulbs continuously implode, and I'm a wimpering numb heap within a few city blocks...

Gazillions of happy owners sing the praises of their F800's and I wouldn't think to cast any untoward aspersions against them (the best forum on the 'net IMHO was the F800Riders.org, wonderful peeps there!) but *MY* F800ST was a hideous nightmare.

[Cortez]

Originally Posted by L.B.S.

Agreed on the individual tolerance for vibes, and how some certain harmonics can be unnoticable for most, but will just nuke other poor bastards.

For me, I draw the line at "going to make some stuff shake" though, when parts and fasteners fly off, all the bulbs continuously implode, and I'm a wimpering numb heap within a few city blocks...

Gazillions of happy owners sing the praises of their F800's and I wouldn't think to cast any untoward aspersions against them (the best forum on the 'net IMHO was the F800Riders.org, wonderful peeps there!) but *MY* F800ST was a hideous nightmare.

That's why I sold my Ninja 650R.. but the vibes there got worse as the
time went by and there's probably an explanation.. but I was dealing with
it for 2 years at that time and couldn't take it anymore.

Now it's either a V-twin or a I4.

[dduelin]

Originally Posted by Cortez

Now it's either a V-twin or a I4.

Honda's 360 degree V4 as in the ST1100 or ST1300 is a great road engine. Creamy torque and only character vibes. No I4 buzz or V twin coarseness, ever, from idle to 9250 rpm where the rev limiter comes in. In the 1300 the dual counter balancers and geared alternator all turning opposite from the crankshaft cancel any torque reaction when the engine is revved. Bullet proof with many examples over 200 or 300,000 miles.

Sorry for the thread hijack. The Honda 500s are going to revive the class.