Soccer Thread V1: Klinsmann for Gold?

[majlee_vmi]

The Daily Mail today is "reporting" increased tension in the locker room between Rooney and SAF over Rooney's lack of committment, lack of overall fitness, overweight, etc. They speculate SAF would be willing to trade him off for when his 2 years are up if the price is right...to the tune of 20 million pounds. PSG has indicated some interest as well as MAN Shitty. Guess Everton is right out of that contention, not that Rooney would go back there.

SAF has seemed to try and follow Sir Matt's method of bringing in younger players to build a squad, but this seems a bit dramatic. I guess if you have RVP now, then a whole new thought process is opened up. They ditched Berbetov after he performed reasonably well and talks of trading Nani have popped up more frequently lately. Hate to see the squad that got me interested in EPL be broken up, but it is a business after all. I guess you can't find a starting 11 of Giggs' and Scholes' anywhere.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...y-lurking.html

[wxwax]

The Daily Mail fabricates a lot of stuff, so one has to be careful reading their stuff.

That being said, this business of Rooney not being fit has been a constant refrain for years. Yet when he plays he seems perfectly fit, to my untrained eye. He's not apparently overweight and he runs hard the entire match. So I'm not sure how much there is to those stories.

I was shocked that he wasn't in the first XI for Madrid. Wellbeck had an excellent game behind the striker. Pundits have suggested that Rooney could have played one of the wide positions. I'm thinking that Ferguson sent out a team which he believed would be his strongest defenders.

He was right. Before the red card Madrid weren't able to launch their counter attacks and looked lost when attacking. After the red card, when Madrid were basically assured possession, he plopped Modric in the middle where he could sit and be the general of a game played at a slower pace and Madrid looked great.

Long way of saying that tactics, not fitness, might have been the issue with Rooney.

[JNRobert]

Originally Posted by wxwax

He was right. Before the red card Madrid weren't able to launch their counter attacks and looked lost when attacking. After the red card, when Madrid were basically assured possession, he plopped Modric in the middle where he could sit and be the general of a game played at a slower pace and Madrid looked great.

To my eye (take it for what it's worth) SAF was out thought in the immediate effects of the Nani sending off. Mourinho was about to bring Benzema on (an admission that Ferguson had the better of him) and he immediately changed him for Modric. Two quick goals and voila. For me that is where Mourinho really shines tactically.

[wxwax]

Originally Posted by JNRobert

To my eye (take it for what it's worth) SAF was out thought in the immediate effects of the Nani sending off. Mourinho was about to bring Benzema on (an admission that Ferguson had the better of him) and he immediately changed him for Modric. Two quick goals and voila. For me that is where Mourinho really shines tactically.

I agree. Ferguson embodied United's anger and lack of focus. They didn't adjust to their new circumstance until Madrid had put two quick goals by them. As you say, Madrid immediately changed their personnel (Modric, Kaka) to bring on men who can play in the middle and play with possession.

Perhaps Mourinho knows how to adjust because he's had so many players sent off in CL games over the years. Seemed like it wasn't a proper CL campaign unless Chelsea had at least one sending-off.

[ThePikeman]

Rooney doesn't strike me as the fittest player around. With 28, he is not the youngest player either and these two points together pose the risk of him loosing form. It is the perfect time to get rid of him.

On the game... the loss of a winger shouldn't be a defensive problem.

[wxwax]

He has a stocky body so I have a hard time telling if he's heavy or not. It was easier with Ronaldo and Ronaldhino.

The guy's played a lot of high level games since a young age and it may be that he's closer to the end of his career than a man his ought to be (I worry that the same will befall Neymar, who seems to be playing non-stop despite his tender years.) The body can only give so much. Torres plays like an older man, that's for sure.

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

He has a stocky body so I have a hard time telling if he's heavy or not. It was easier with Ronaldo and Ronaldhino.

The guy's played a lot of high level games since a young age and it may be that he's closer to the end of his career than a man his ought to be (I worry that the same will befall Neymar, who seems to be playing non-stop despite his tender years.) The body can only give so much. Torres plays like an older man, that's for sure.

It is hard to look at him in any case, but put a really fit player of the same stature next to him, and you see the difference. All older players are also exceptionally fit.

I also see a bit bleak for the young players being overplayed. I am surprised that Messi isn't injured all the time with the number of games he plays.

I don't think Torres is a bad player, but he does not have a chance whatsoever to play well in the Premier League at the moment. Chelsea should loan him to another league for a season. I wouldn't be surprised, if Torres accepts a big pay cut to make that possible.

[wxwax]

Torres, I'm afraid, is done. He relied on his burst of speed to create his chances. Whatever injury he suffered in his last season at Liverpool robbed him of his speed. He was poor there, he was poor for Spain and he's been poor at Chelsea. To make things worse he has also lost his touch, probably because his confidence is so low. It's almost embarrassing to watch him dribble. He's rich, put him out to pasture. I think he's a good guy. But he's no longer a top level footballer.

I agree completely about Messi. They don't rest him enough. Apparently he insists on playing. But they should force him to sit, sometimes.

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

Torres, I'm afraid, is done. He relied on his burst of speed to create his chances. Whatever injury he suffered in his last season at Liverpool robbed him of his speed. He was poor there, he was poor for Spain and he's been poor at Chelsea. To make things worse he has also lost his touch, probably because his confidence is so low. It's almost embarrassing to watch him dribble. He's rich, put him out to pasture. I think he's a good guy. But he's no longer a top level footballer.

I agree completely about Messi. They don't rest him enough. Apparently he insists on playing. But they should force him to sit, sometimes.

I understand that young players always want to play and they do have much faster recopuration (? - too lazy to look up the spelling). It is the job of the clubs to take care of their younger players. In Germany they seem to take care of them quite well, but it is a bit less business than in England and with the top 2 in LaLiga. Though Julian Draxler (19) for example makes me a bit of a liar. He made his 100th game for the Schalke first team today.


Torres is still a technical gifted player. That's why I suggested a longer loan to another country. Maybe let him play as a 10 in a 4-2-3-1 or hanging striker in a 4-4-1-1. Those positions are more about footballing skill than speed. Raul managed that job quite well at Schalke a last season. Experience can replace speed and youth at times.

[wxwax]

Everything I know about the Bundesliga I like. It's a model organization. One thing I especially like is that the ticket prices are reasonable and the stadiums are full. Fantastic atmosphere. The way the money is shared, the lower ticket prices and the smaller television deals have tended to hurt the Germans in Europe, but perhaps FFP will change that.

I doubt Torres could play a 10. He can't get his feet out from him all too often these days. I understand that shooting is largely a matter of confidence. But his shooting is just horrid. His lone remaining technical skill is his passing, especially his crosses. (He's also decent at holding the ball up.) But if he can't dribble he can't play 10. He'll never sit deeper and be a Pirlo, either.

He's been toiling at Chelsea for two years now. I've watched every single match he's played. Even on his good days he's merely average. And he doesn't have many good days. His time at the top is over. It happens to them all. It's just happened to him a bit earlier than most.

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

Everything I know about the Bundesliga I like. It's a model organization. One thing I especially like is that the ticket prices are reasonable and the stadiums are full. Fantastic atmosphere. The way the money is shared, the lower ticket prices and the smaller television deals have tended to hurt the Germans in Europe, but perhaps FFP will change that.

I doubt Torres could play a 10. He can't get his feet out from him all too often these days. I understand that shooting is largely a matter of confidence. But his shooting is just horrid. His lone remaining technical skill is his passing, especially his crosses. (He's also decent at holding the ball up.) But if he can't dribble he can't play 10. He'll never sit deeper and be a Pirlo, either.

He's been toiling at Chelsea for two years now. I've watched every single match he's played. Even on his good days he's merely average. And he doesn't have many good days. His time at the top is over. It happens to them all. It's just happened to him a bit earlier than most.

I am not sure it is the best model, but it does work quite well and keeps all stakeholders reasonable happy.

Bremen and Hamburg will take him on loan, if the fees are reasonable.

[JNRobert]

Originally Posted by wxwax

. His time at the top is over. It happens to them all. It's just happened to him a bit earlier than most.

he was a marvelous player at his peak and scored some wonderful goals.

And talking of which Hazards goal against Man U today was nice. I'm critical of their ownership but what a great bunch of players that team has with Matta, Hazard and Oscar. It's a shame Torres is not his 2006 self with those three supplying him.

[wxwax]

Originally Posted by JNRobert

he was a marvelous player at his peak and scored some wonderful goals.

And talking of which Hazards goal against Man U today was nice. I'm critical of their ownership but what a great bunch of players that team has with Matta, Hazard and Oscar. It's a shame Torres is not his 2006 self with those three supplying him.

I agree, put this season's Falcao on the same pitch and they'd be monsters.

Those three are great players and are really young by design. As ThePikeman alluded to earlier, it's a problem that at least two of them are 10's, with Oscar's natural position a little bit more in doubt.

To put on my Chelsea hat, the structure of the team has some issues. The youth thing, I don't mind. It's a good problem. But there's a size thing, too. The 3 Amigos get pushed around too easily. They don't track back well and only Oscar really makes an effort at tackling. All of this makes getting and keeping the ball a problem against seriously physical opposition.

Add to that a puzzling mix of players in the pivot/holding midfield, and some mediocrity at center-back and you have long-term issues which need to be addressed.

I'm one of the few Chelsea fans who doesn't want Mourinho back. I'm sure he'd fix the defensive issues. But at what cost? Turmoil and ultimately a betrayal as he seeks Alex Ferguson's job at Manchester United. No thanks.

[wxwax]

Barca's challenge: score three while not conceding any. I have no doubt they can score three at home. But I do have doubt they can stop Milan from scoring 1. Should be a thrill, a siege of the kind Chelsea survived last season.

[ThePikeman]

Originally Posted by wxwax

I agree, put this season's Falcao on the same pitch and they'd be monsters.

Those three are great players and are really young by design. As ThePikeman alluded to earlier, it's a problem that at least two of them are 10's, with Oscar's natural position a little bit more in doubt.

To put on my Chelsea hat, the structure of the team has some issues. The youth thing, I don't mind. It's a good problem. But there's a size thing, too. The 3 Amigos get pushed around too easily. They don't track back well and only Oscar really makes an effort at tackling. All of this makes getting and keeping the ball a problem against seriously physical opposition.

Add to that a puzzling mix of players in the pivot/holding midfield, and some mediocrity at center-back and you have long-term issues which need to be addressed.

I'm one of the few Chelsea fans who doesn't want Mourinho back. I'm sure he'd fix the defensive issues. But at what cost? Turmoil and ultimately a betrayal as he seeks Alex Ferguson's job at Manchester United. No thanks.

They still lack a direction and solidity. Who in their right mind would consider being manager there (without strong pain meds in money form)? He could be fired the next time Abramovich suffers from diarrhea.

I prefer to watch the Schalke game. It will be much nicer to watch without having a big emotional attachement to a team. I am not in the mood to stomach a tactical battle.