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Old 03-14-2013, 09:54 AM   #16456
BigToad
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Location: Vancouver BC
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I have big hands so mounting the 6.3 Acerbis is a pain in the ass! Is the IMS 7 easier to take on and off? Anyone with experience mounting both?
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:13 PM   #16457
lstzephyr
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Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Huntsville, Al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright gents I need a couple extra opinions on my current situation. I can't get my bike to start again after it died the other day. It was running fine on a new engine rebuild until I turned into the bar and it sputtered and died. I figured it was low on fuel and didn't bother with it. When I went to leave I couldn't get it to start. It hasn't started since.

I have:
  1. New fuel
  2. new petcock
  3. new fuel line
  4. new spark plug
  5. new coil
  6. new wiring harness
  7. new stator
  8. new coil pickup
  9. new woodruff key on crankshaft
  10. Checked for spark(has spark on spark tester and when holding plug to head)
  11. Top end is fresh(new piston/rings/valves/seals/tensioner/cam chain etc less than 8 engine hours ago)
  12. Checked cam chain, cam timing, valve clearance(all in spec)
  13. Cleaned the carb thoroughly ( tore it down completely and had it dunked over the weekend by the local machine shop)
  14. Attempted bump starting (the bike only locks the back tire, I need a bigger hill)
  15. pulled cylinder off and checked valves/piston. Everything looks fine.
  16. Swapped cdi with ebay xr400 cdi that was stated as pulled from running bike
  17. I'm working in a 70 degree shop so temp is not an issue.

After the carb cleaning it would periodically fire 3-4 revolutions then die. Barely more than the spin of the kick. Starting fluid has no effect other than raising the amount of backfires.

I swapped on my recently rebuilt HS40 Carb (mikuni tm40) to see if it was still a plugged pilot circuit. No change except it will fire 3-4 revolutions every other kick now. I think that is because the accelerator pump allows me to toss fuel in. I didn't want to add another variable(new carb) but I wanted to rule out the stock carb as the issue.

So my thinking is that it could be one of a few things:

Unlikely:
  1. Loss of compression(it is still more difficult to kick than before rebuilt so it appears to have compression)
  2. CDI(only failure symptoms I can find say that there is no spark with a dead cdi, I have spark so probably not cdi)
  3. Plugged pilot circuit in both carbs (I checked both thoroughly, especially the hs40)

Probable:

  1. Misadjusted idle in both carbs (I have moved the idle screws around while trying to start it)
  2. automatic decompressor

I get a pretty impressive backfire every few kicks and it has spark when held to the head. It is getting fuel because of the backfires. About the only thing left is carb or cam.

Any other ideas?
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. I've got an entire new electrical system because I thought it might have incorrect spark timing. I replaced the woodruff key thinking that might contribute to missed timing. No change.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

lstzephyr screwed with this post 03-14-2013 at 03:54 PM
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:37 PM   #16458
nick5446
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Location: Portland, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. I've got an entire new electrical system because I thought it might have incorrect spark timing. I replaced the woodruff key thinking that might contribute to missed timing. No change.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Dude you've got a ton variables going on. If you can, do one thing at a time. Makes life way easier, especially with how suspect new electronics are.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:42 PM   #16459
hontri
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Joined: Nov 2009
Location: Summerland B.C.
Oddometer: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigToad View Post
I have big hands so mounting the 6.3 Acerbis is a pain in the ass! Is the IMS 7 easier to take on and off? Anyone with experience mounting both?
Don't know about the Acerbis but i have no problem with the IMS. I wear XXXL gloves. I carry a 1/4" drive ratchet and long extension to reach the front 2 mounting bolts. Mounts up easily.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:53 PM   #16460
lstzephyr
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Location: Huntsville, Al
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick5446 View Post
Dude you've got a ton variables going on. If you can, do one thing at a time. Makes life way easier, especially with how suspect new electronics are.
Yeah I know. The thing is I have been doing everything one piece at a time. You are just looking at a list of six months of swapping parts around. I would have taken it to a dealer or something a while ago if I thought they could do better. I have changed so much on this bike that I'm not sure a mechanic would have a starting point.

lstzephyr screwed with this post 03-14-2013 at 04:02 PM
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #16461
Jayrod1318
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Location: Here and there and stuff.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. I've got an entire new electrical system because I thought it might have incorrect spark timing. I replaced the woodruff key thinking that might contribute to missed timing. No change.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
You say it back fired a few times?

Sounds like maybe you are 180degrees off on your cam.

turn the gas off, unplug spark plug and ground it.....Have someone kick it over a bunch of times while putting your hand over the end of your exhaust. (gloved). is it blowing air out or is it sucking it in?

Like wise you can see if you are blowing air out the carb instead of sucking in.

Humor me?
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:09 AM   #16462
BuRPsa
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Location: Pretoria
Oddometer: 548
Ist,

Did you ever check if the valves actually seal - like by pouring in meth in the intake & exhaust ports, with the head in your hands or on a bench? A very mild seepage may be acceptable but not clear sweating, never mind leaking.
In any case I would increase the valve clearance now, goto 0.3 & 0.4mm, and try again, just to get it to run. Also, some 4% 2T premix (yes, oil-rich!) may help in valve-sealing just to get it to run, and obviously this is a temporary makeshift measure.
When it starts set the carb there where it idles best (only the idling, fork the rest), then go back to proper valve settings, fuel etc, and take it from there.
With the std camshaft I doubt if one can set the cam 180-deg off, unless you have a non-std flywheel that is. But, this is darn easy to check: take rocker covers off, turn engine until both valves "rock", then check if the piston is in the top of stroke if not TDC. If so all's fine. Mind though, I think valves will hit the crown with a cam 180 degs off so you would have noticed this already, especially seeing you've tkaen the top off already.

1 thing: the camshaft is stock innit? Not reground or modded in some way?
Another thing worth checking (dunno what a 'spark tester is, sorry, Thick here ) is the spark. Take a normal 4-hole button. Rig a ground wire through 1 of the holes, and rig the HT through the diagonally opposite hole. Kick the bugger over and you should see & hear the spark, pulling a generous distance. If this works your spark quality is fine.. but maybe this is what that tester does?
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:59 AM   #16463
BuRPsa
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Location: Pretoria
Oddometer: 548
Ist,

one more thing: on the flywheel there's a rectangular piece of metal spotwelded, it is the trigger for the ignition. Is this bit in good nick, the edges not damaged in some way?
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:41 AM   #16464
slickwill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. I've got an entire new electrical system because I thought it might have incorrect spark timing. I replaced the woodruff key thinking that might contribute to missed timing. No change.
If I read your last post correctly you said it was running at some point after the rebuild then stopped? If so then I don't think the theory about the cam being off 180 could be right. After building my engine twice I also feel like you really have to screw something up to end up with it off by 180. The cam installation process is pretty fool proof.

The fact that it intermittently fires up for a couple revolutions would seem indicate that you have spark. A five dollar spark tester could confirm easy enough that you have spark at all times. As long as that checks out you are left with a fuel issue. This could be as simple as a new plug and some new fuel. I'd also recommend pulling your carb and shooting compressed air through every opening you can find. It should always have a clear path to somewhere else on the carb. You can also run a guitar string through all of the small ports to verify that it is clean.

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Old 03-15-2013, 06:51 AM   #16465
galland1
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Mine acted exactly the same when I had the idle set too low.

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Old 03-15-2013, 07:09 AM   #16466
RideFreak
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Location: Out in the NM Dez somewhere
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"Originally Posted by lstzephyr
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. I've got an entire new electrical system because I thought it might have incorrect spark timing. I replaced the woodruff key thinking that might contribute to missed timing. No change."

Like I said long ago, I'd have hooked that thing up to something and give it a good pull, enough to turn the motor over consistantly. You're going to wear out the kickstarter and your wallet

Yeah it should start by kicking it but I've had bikes that didn't want to start, pulled them and was able to tell much better what was wrong when they were forced to run as opposed to relying on the kickstarter and having the motor fire intermittently. Also had them fire up, them motor clear out and they run fine. 2 weeks ago we were in Moab and one of the riders showed up on an XR650R to ride with us, his bike hadn't been started all winter. He kicked and kicked, nothing, nada, didn't even fire. He was all ready to pack it up, I tied off to it with my 300 (should have gotten a pic) and gave it a good pull, it turned over for about 50' before it started firing, missed, sputtered and finally cleared out, the bike ran fine the rest of the day. I'd never rely on the kick starter 100%.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:56 AM   #16467
nanisx
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Joined: Jan 2009
Location: Silver Spring MD
Oddometer: 107
Frame guards

I know works connection discontinued making them.... Just wondering if there is any other company that makes some nice frame guards for the xr650R
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #16468
Sean-0
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Location: Mumblebum Northern NSW
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Originally Posted by nanisx View Post
I know works connection discontinued making them.... Just wondering if there is any other company that makes some nice frame guards for the xr650R

http://www.bboffroad.com.au/xr_650r.htm
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:44 AM   #16469
slickwill
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Originally Posted by galland1 View Post
Mine acted exactly the same when I had the idle set too low.

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I meant to make that same statement in my long winded post.

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Old 03-15-2013, 01:18 PM   #16470
FlyGuy
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Location: Middle of Highway 1 California
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Alright gents I need a couple extra opinions on my current situation. I can't get my bike to start again after it died the other day. It was running fine on a new engine rebuild until I turned into the bar and it sputtered and died. I figured it was low on fuel and didn't bother with it. When I went to leave I couldn't get it to start. It hasn't started since.

I have:
New fuel
new petcock
new fuel line
new spark plug
new coil
new wiring harness
new stator
new coil pickup
new woodruff key on crankshaft
Checked for spark(has spark on spark tester and when holding plug to head)
Top end is fresh(new piston/rings/valves/seals/tensioner/cam chain etc less than 8 engine hours ago)
Checked cam chain, cam timing, valve clearance(all in spec)
Cleaned the carb thoroughly ( tore it down completely and had it dunked over the weekend by the local machine shop)
Attempted bump starting (the bike only locks the back tire, I need a bigger hill)
pulled cylinder off and checked valves/piston. Everything looks fine.
Swapped cdi with ebay xr400 cdi that was stated as pulled from running bike
I'm working in a 70 degree shop so temp is not an issue.

After the carb cleaning it would periodically fire 3-4 revolutions then die. Barely more than the spin of the kick. Starting fluid has no effect other than raising the amount of backfires.

I swapped on my recently rebuilt HS40 Carb (mikuni tm40) to see if it was still a plugged pilot circuit. No change except it will fire 3-4 revolutions every other kick now. I think that is because the accelerator pump allows me to toss fuel in. I didn't want to add another variable(new carb) but I wanted to rule out the stock carb as the issue.

So my thinking is that it could be one of a few things:

Unlikely:
Loss of compression(it is still more difficult to kick than before rebuilt so it appears to have compression)
CDI(only failure symptoms I can find say that there is no spark with a dead cdi, I have spark so probably not cdi)
Plugged pilot circuit in both carbs (I checked both thoroughly, especially the hs40)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lstzephyr View Post
Alright I'm bumping this back up with new components and even less of a guess. I've got an entire new electrical system because I thought it might have incorrect spark timing. I replaced the woodruff key thinking that might contribute to missed timing. No change.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Where do you live? I may open a Honda dealer next to ya

Wow that's a lot of parts and work for no result

In hind sight a timing light would have answered allot of questions about Ignition timing and ignition performance before the parts replacing started.

The manual has a section on what to look for where you use a timing light pointed at the crankshaft where you should see a (F) on the flywheel when the timing light strobes.

But To push start the 650r should be easy, But you might not know?

Start in neutral and pull in the compression release
have someone push you Or better yet use a steep hill (I try to stop on downhills when I can)
Don"t stop at the bars anymore unless they run to a fairly steep downhill OK
Once up to peak momentum jam it in to second and wait for the engine to build a bit of momentum then let out the compression release.

OK from here go to a hill with 200 foot or more of rapid decent and get the thing to spin over if on a steep hill you can bring on the throttle (good).
Now bring a plug wrench with ya and if it don"t start buy the time you are at bottom of the incline, pull the plug and see if it has a wet appearance?
if yes then look at spark timing and cam timing.

You say its harder to kick ? that may be because you set the cam to the (f) mark on the flywheel instead of the (T) mark?

On the spark timing I would invest in a cheap timing light.

And if the plug is dry and you cant smell fuel Look at carb again

Also you cite a series of parts and things you have done but no results, So as a result we don't know if you have added a new problem with the things have been done, as they have not proven themselves in actual service;

Anyway hope the best and if ya get it going? let us know
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