ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-17-2013, 05:37 PM   #106
Tseta
Lost
 
Tseta's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Finland
Oddometer: 669
Regarding the cam ball bearing, I'd like to point out back to one of my earlier posts in this thread: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=42

Especially this part, about the TMB-nomenclature in the KTM part description and also visible on the actual bearing itself:

Quote:
The grooved ball bearing TMB004 is an interesting anomaly. KTM’s part number nomenclature/logic gives us some more information: most ball bearings have a part number starting with 06250, followed by a 4 or 5-number standard bearing code. Take the front wheel bearings of my LC4 Adv, for example: 0625069068 GR.BALL BEAR.6906 DDU2CG23S6NM. The KTM part number contains the 6906-part as the standard bearing code. Keeping this in mind, it would seem that the TMB004 is actually a 6004 deep groove ball bearing. This would seem to hold true based on the bearing measurements of a removed TMB004 compared to a new 6004. The removed TMB-unit even uses the same plastic/rubber seals as the 6004, even with the same markings. Interestingly, though, the TMB is explicitly marked on the outer race as a TMB004 bearing. So this led me to research it further.

It seems that TMB is NTN (a bearing manufacturer) nomenclature for a special bearing. Read more about it here. These types of bearings seem to be designed with demanding use in mind: long service life even with contaminated lubrication, optimized heat treatment for improved cracking resistance etc.

It also seems that these TMB-bearings are OEM application only. The local NTN supplier was aware of the existence of these types of bearings, but informed me that “it is not possible to order replacement bearings with the TMB-code through NTN.” It was the NTN-bearing technician’s view, though, that in this application, a regular 6004 bearing with C3 (greater than normal) internal clearance would be adequate. It does seem plausible, as KTM uses similar 6004 bearings with C3 or even larger C4 clearance in numerous applications (mainly transmission and camshaft bearings)
So, it's (perhaps) not so simple, afterall...

Cheers,

Tseta
Tseta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 05:47 PM   #107
Umarth
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Umarth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Tramping arround the world for a bit with Big O
Oddometer: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
I've been running an SKF cam bearing for over 30K KM with little issue... Below is a spiel taken from my rebuild thread:


I did a little research on the cam ball bearing {6004} and found out that the same bearing in the NTN brand are also used as wheel bearings in some Honda motorcycles... These bearings when ordered for the Honda application also have the TMB 004 stamp on the outer race.... With this info I called the bearing shop and let him run the numbers and he came back with the SKF 6004-2rsh/c3 as a direct replacement... So we'll give her a go and see if the price saving was worth it....


Here are the new cam related parts ...
Quick question,

I've just rebuilt my water pump and also replaced the cam shaft.
While putting it back together, the manual states??:
1. Put in cam shaft bolt and torque to x nm.
2. Un'screew camshaft bolt so that slot is vertical.

Wtf? Why do I need to torque it if I end up loosening it?
During the procedure, the locking bolt is in the crack shaft, o there is no way to turn that cam shaft bolt without loosening it...
Umarth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 06:42 PM   #108
gunnerbuck
Island Hopper
 
gunnerbuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: N.V.I, B.C.
Oddometer: 3,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
Quick question,

I've just rebuilt my water pump and also replaced the cam shaft.
While putting it back together, the manual states??:
1. Put in cam shaft bolt and torque to x nm.
2. Un'screew camshaft bolt so that slot is vertical.

Wtf? Why do I need to torque it if I end up loosening it?
During the procedure, the locking bolt is in the crack shaft, o there is no way to turn that cam shaft bolt without loosening it...
Some times the shop manual is a bit foggy...

Here's what you do:
1. Tighten the cam shaft sprocket retaining bolt to the required torque with the locking bolt in place..
2. Remove the locking bolt and turn the engine over until the slot is vertical..
3. Slip the waterpump into place...

4. Turn the engine around till the cam lobes are facing downward so they don't interfere with the replacement of the rocker cover...
gunnerbuck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 07:02 PM   #109
Umarth
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Umarth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Tramping arround the world for a bit with Big O
Oddometer: 348
Ah crap!!
The whole things has been closed up (Honda bound gasket curing as we sleek)
Looks like I'll be starting over next week end...

Thanks gunner...
Umarth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2013, 08:22 PM   #110
gunnerbuck
Island Hopper
 
gunnerbuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: N.V.I, B.C.
Oddometer: 3,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umarth View Post
Ah crap!!
The whole things has been closed up (Honda bound gasket curing as we sleek)
Looks like I'll be starting over next week end...

Thanks gunner...
Good thing you caught it because running around with a loose cam sprocket/bolt is a recipe for disaster... This link might help:http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=115

One other question for you, did you remember to slack off the cam chain tensioner upon disassembly and then reset the plunger after everything was back together?

gunnerbuck screwed with this post 03-17-2013 at 08:30 PM
gunnerbuck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 11:25 AM   #111
Sparrowhawk
Beastly Adventurer
 
Sparrowhawk's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Eastern Washington, USA
Oddometer: 1,829
I ran into a stopping point last night trying to put the camshaft back into position. With the new ball bearing slid onto the cam and metal ring in place, I am not able to either tilt the end of the cam down far enough or raise the cam sprocket high enough to slide the splines into the sprocket. I can't put the bearing in place and then slide the cam through the bearing and into the sprocket because there isn't enough room on the other end of the cam. The chain tensioner is removed.

Any ideas? What's the trick?
Sparrowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 11:58 AM   #112
gunnerbuck
Island Hopper
 
gunnerbuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: N.V.I, B.C.
Oddometer: 3,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
I ran into a stopping point last night trying to put the camshaft back into position. With the new ball bearing slid onto the cam and metal ring in place, I am not able to either tilt the end of the cam down far enough or raise the cam sprocket high enough to slide the splines into the sprocket. I can't put the bearing in place and then slide the cam through the bearing and into the sprocket because there isn't enough room on the other end of the cam. The chain tensioner is removed.

Any ideas? What's the trick?
It is a finicky process to get the 3 together as one and takes a bit of trickery..

What I do is put the chain on the sprocket and hold the retaining ring against the sprocket rather than putting it in it's seat... Then I partly slide the cam into the bearing so the end will tilt up {make sure the needle bearing is also installed} keeping an eye out that the index mark on the shaft lines up to the sprocket mark... Then I work the shaft splines into the sprocket and also move the clip so it fits into the seat, be so carefull not to drop the clip down the cam chain tunnel...
gunnerbuck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #113
Umarth
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Umarth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Tramping arround the world for a bit with Big O
Oddometer: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
It is a finicky process to get the 3 together as one and takes a bit of trickery..

What I do is put the chain on the sprocket and hold the retaining ring against the sprocket rather than putting it in it's seat... Then I partly slide the cam into the bearing so the end will tilt up {make sure the needle bearing is also installed} keeping an eye out that the index mark on the shaft lines up to the sprocket mark... Then I work the shaft splines into the sprocket and also move the clip so it fits into the seat, be so carefull not to drop the clip down the cam chain tunnel...
That's how I did it last week and it worked like a charm. Took like 2-3min to get it back in place.
Umarth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 08:21 PM   #114
bmwktmbill
Traveler
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Traveler
Oddometer: 4,788
I dropped the washer on the sprocket bolt down the tunnel.

It was a nightmare to find as it went back behind the balancer or some such.

Also I have jammed up the chain when I dropped it and had to remove the clutch cover to free it.

Just saying...I'd stuff the tunnel with something like paper towel or cut a chunk of cardboard to block.

bill
__________________
'02 KTM 640 Adventure-lowered
"On the road there are no special cases."
Cormack McCarthy-The Crossing

The faster it goes the faster it breaks.
And high performance=high maintenance.
Bill Shockley
bmwktmbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #115
Umarth
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Umarth's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: Tramping arround the world for a bit with Big O
Oddometer: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
I dropped the washer on the sprocket bolt down the tunnel.

It was a nightmare to find as it went back behind the balancer or some such.

Also I have jammed up the chain when I dropped it and had to remove the clutch cover to free it.

Just saying...I'd stuff the tunnel with something like paper towel or cut a chunk of cardboard to block.

bill
Dido on the chain jamming in the bottom part.
Umarth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 09:22 PM   #116
Sparrowhawk
Beastly Adventurer
 
Sparrowhawk's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Eastern Washington, USA
Oddometer: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
be so carefull not to drop the clip down the cam chain tunnel...
That is a nightmare I was worried about.

Thanks for the hint. I"ll try it again with less beer and better light. :) My shop is an old storage room and not the best for tricky tasks.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Sparrowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2013, 09:37 PM   #117
gunnerbuck
Island Hopper
 
gunnerbuck's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: N.V.I, B.C.
Oddometer: 3,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrowhawk View Post
That is a nightmare I was worried about.

Thanks for the hint. I"ll try it again with less beer and better light. :) My shop is an old storage room and not the best for tricky tasks.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Your shop sounds like a dream compared to mine...
gunnerbuck is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2013, 03:38 PM   #118
Sparrowhawk
Beastly Adventurer
 
Sparrowhawk's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: Eastern Washington, USA
Oddometer: 1,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
What I do is put the chain on the sprocket and hold the retaining ring against the sprocket rather than putting it in it's seat... Then I partly slide the cam into the bearing so the end will tilt up {make sure the needle bearing is also installed} keeping an eye out that the index mark on the shaft lines up to the sprocket mark... Then I work the shaft splines into the sprocket and also move the clip so it fits into the seat, be so carefull not to drop the clip down the cam chain tunnel...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwktmbill View Post
Just saying...I'd stuff the tunnel with something like paper towel or cut a chunk of cardboard to block.

bill
Thanks much for the instructions. With a rag placed in the cam chain tunnel and the retaining ring held to the sprocket with a dab of grease
it all went back together. Getting the splines aligned was still difficult.



Everything was in place, lubricated, and lined up at what seemed like the right angle but it refused to go in. Adjusted the alignment and still no go. Tried different angles without success. Kept trying with small adjustments, pushing, adjusting, changing angle, pushing, and finally the shaft slid in with a satisfying smoothness to the hilt just like the the parts were made for each other, giving me a wonderful feeling of joy and success.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerbuck View Post
Your shop sounds like a dream compared to mine...
I'm not complaining about having a roof, four walls, and electricity. It's just a little cramped at times.



Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Sparrowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 02:09 PM   #119
muttley92
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Oddometer: 65
LC4 Supermono camshaft issue.

So I'm building an LC4 engine into an RS 125 as a project. But the engine seems to have seen better days. I've already replaced the starter clutch, now that it's run for long enough it makes horrible noises. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSKuxUwipiQ. Believing it to the the cam follows I removed the rocker cover and found a camshaft with a big chunk missing and this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqR0P...ature=youtu.be Can anyone confirm if this part can replaced seperately? and what may have caused this? Should also mention that the rocker cover was pretty well sealed on and whoever did it has got sealant all over the valves.
muttley92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2013, 02:46 PM   #120
Alik
viertaKTMotor *****
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Poznan, Poland
Oddometer: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by muttley92 View Post
So I'm building an LC4 engine into an RS 125 as a project. But the engine seems to have seen better days. I've already replaced the starter clutch, now that it's run for long enough it makes horrible noises. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSKuxUwipiQ. Believing it to the the cam follows I removed the rocker cover and found a camshaft with a big chunk missing and this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqR0P...ature=youtu.be Can anyone confirm if this part can replaced seperately? and what may have caused this? Should also mention that the rocker cover was pretty well sealed on and whoever did it has got sealant all over the valves.
The autodecomp ring seems to be broken. I wonder how the cam followers do look a like... The ring can be replaced AFAIR. but one have to examine the shaft itself. The pin under the autodeco ring could be damaged too.
Alik is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 01:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014