My V-strom story, I'm sticking to it. - Page 3

robberst · 03-20-2013, 07:11 PM

I just did a Google search on SCEM.
Didn't really come up with much. There are claims on wikipedia that the dl650 has it, but I don't think mine does. Perhaps the gladius motor and probably the 2012+ Dl650 do. Now I'm wondering if I should deglaze the cylinders.......

I did start cleaning up the heads, valves and seats today. Amazing deposits of carbon and burnt oil. I suspect thats where my vibration and lack of power was coming from. Either preignition from the deposits, or low compression from crud in the seats.

After reading about the hard coating on the valves, i was afraid to lap them even. I removed the valves to clean up carbon built up on the stems. After the clean-up I checked the fitment with Prussian Blue. They checked good.

MADSTROM · 03-21-2013, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robberst

I just did a Google search on SCEM.
Didn't really come up with much. There are claims on wikipedia that the dl650 has it, but I don't think mine does. Perhaps the gladius motor and probably the 2012+ Dl650 do. Now I'm wondering if I should deglaze the cylinders.......

I did start cleaning up the heads, valves and seats today. Amazing deposits of carbon and burnt oil. I suspect thats where my vibration and lack of power was coming from. Either preignition from the deposits, or low compression from crud in the seats.

After reading about the hard coating on the valves, i was afraid to lap them even. I removed the valves to clean up carbon built up on the stems. After the clean-up I checked the fitment with Prussian Blue. They checked good.

Have you posted any of your questions on :

http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php

or

http://www.stromtrooper.com/

There are quite a few members on those forums who a very knowledgeable.

greywolf · 03-21-2013, 05:34 AM

Suzuki has included SCEM coating in the published features of all models of V-Strom. Many people, including me, assumed such a coating would be applied directly to the aluminum casting and figured it had to be wrong because the engines obviously have iron or steel liners. The fact is there is no reason a plasma splatter coating like SCEM or Nikasil can't be applied to a liner. Ergo, I figured the coating had to be there and was applied to the liner.

On the other hand, I just now checked Suzukicycles.com and the reference to SCEM on the DL1000 includes weight saving in the SCEM treatment which makes no sense if it was applied to a liner. A look at the features pages of the 2011, 2012 and 2013 DL650 shows the SCEM reference is gone. Knowing Suzuki has published totally wrong information before, like some torque settings in service manuals and the accessory page info that the DL650 knuckle guard kit will also fit the DL1000, I'm going back to thinking the SCEM reference is just wrong.

D.T. · 03-21-2013, 08:14 AM

Interesting that the 650 uses a steel liner and I know the SV 1000 uses the plated coating on aluminum.

I looked in my Gladius service manual and didn't see anything about a SCEM coating on the cylinders.

robberst · 03-21-2013, 12:32 PM

Well the dl650 may or may not have the SCEM coating. Greywolf, don't change on my account, I don't know.
I do know my cylinder do have a iron liner, and after talking to a mechanic here that was formerly a powersports mechanic with a little knowledge of such things. I'll deglaze the clyinders as planned.
I'll continue to not know whether I have SCEM.
Kinda sounds dirty (SCEM)

cylinders are cleaned and put back together. I will replace the valve seals, but I put it back together so as not to mix up part locations. I'm not always very organized.

robberst · 03-25-2013, 06:26 PM

The alternator rotor removal tool arrived today. I got the pesky thing off. I admit, I'm not ever going to be a competitor for the worlds strongest man competition, but that was tight. Now after I got it off, there is lots of metallic dust stuck to it and one magnetic sector has a fracture. It difficult to see in the poor picture, but just above the removal tool.

I can only it think that perhaps I dropped a tool or it was there before I took it apart.

My new cam chains haven't arrived yet, but I'm guessing this isn't normal. This is the front and worst chain. UnTRIUMPHant.

betitou · 03-26-2013, 09:02 AM

Good luck and keep on posting!

robberst · 04-12-2013, 12:53 PM

Well, I'm still alive and have been making slight progress on my project. Here's what has been happening. After I finished measuring everything, I found the Front cylinder valve guides were worn past the limits.

I made a tool out of an old propeller bolt to push out the guides (and install new ones) I shouldn't admit my crude methods, but I turned it down by chucking it into a hand drill and turning it against my bench grinder, then finished it up by turning it against a file.

I hit them with a hammer a few times, but that seemed futile so I pushed them out with a press.

I ordered the suzuki tools to ream the oversized hole for the new guides and to clean up the hole for the valve stem. They haven't arrived yet. I'm also still waiting for a gasket set, piston rings and the new guides.

Today I assembled the rear head with new valve seals. Aren't they pretty

I received t a generator rotor this week, off a SV. (ebay)
So I reassembled the starter clutch and rotor, with the new front cam chain and then also the rear chain, clutch.

It's been slow going, but I'm not in a hurry. This is what it looked like out my back door this morning. Nearly the middle of April and we have only had a few days above freezing and a couple feet of snow. YUUK

Also I don't really need the suzuki until a small two-up trip in July. I have the KTM to get me about.

Süsser Tod · 04-12-2013, 09:44 PM

DL1000 and DL650 share the frame, only difference are the engine mounts, which bolt on to the frame...

That means fitting the 1000cc engine into the DL650 if a piece of cake, if you get the DL1000 engine mounts. Getting everything to work will be a PITA, as you basically need the wiring harness and ECU of the SV1K on the DL, and the wiring harness will need a lot of work to fit.

As fof the issue at hand, it's quite common for the 650s to burn oil as they get older, valve guides wear. If you're replacing the cam chains, don't skim and replace the cam chain guides too!

PeterW · 04-12-2013, 10:07 PM

Thanks for posting this, I did admittedly sell my old DL 650 when the oil consumption got annoying, it's interesting that my guess as to the cause of the oil consumption (worn valve guides/ seals) was probably correct.

Pete

robberst · 04-13-2013, 05:14 AM

To my partially trained eyes, I honestly couldn't tell if any oil was leaking past those two seals. Those two valves were coated with LOTS of carbon build up, but it was obvious a lot of oil was going past the rings, and not so obvious if any got past the seals.

Suzuki's method for checking the the wear of the valve guides/valve stems is to lift the valve off the seat about 1 cm, then to check with a dial indicator the amount of play in four directions. Up to .014 is allowed. Then by measuring the valve stem you can determine which needs to be replaced.

My valve stems had no measurable wear. All guides excepting the two front exhaust measured about .008-.009 with the dial indicator. The two bad ones were .015-.018 which was very noticable.

I did get replacement cam chain guides and tensioners along with chains. They all came off a very low mile 2007 SV650 that was salvaged.

robberst · 05-06-2013, 10:32 AM

it's been while since I reported.....but not much has changed.
I have all the parts now. I received the valve guide reamer, the oversized reamer came, but they sent the wrong one. somehow I got the 11.3mm reamer instead of 10.8 still waiting on that.

I called our local Suzuki shop, but they don't have the necessary tools. Apparently they send out any head repair work to someone else

03-21-2013, 05:34 AM	#33
greywolf Unpaved road avoider Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Evanston IL Oddometer: 889	Suzuki has included SCEM coating in the published features of all models of V-Strom. Many people, including me, assumed such a coating would be applied directly to the aluminum casting and figured it had to be wrong because the engines obviously have iron or steel liners. The fact is there is no reason a plasma splatter coating like SCEM or Nikasil can't be applied to a liner. Ergo, I figured the coating had to be there and was applied to the liner. On the other hand, I just now checked Suzukicycles.com and the reference to SCEM on the DL1000 includes weight saving in the SCEM treatment which makes no sense if it was applied to a liner. A look at the features pages of the 2011, 2012 and 2013 DL650 shows the SCEM reference is gone. Knowing Suzuki has published totally wrong information before, like some torque settings in service manuals and the accessory page info that the DL650 knuckle guard kit will also fit the DL1000, I'm going back to thinking the SCEM reference is just wrong. __________________ Pat in order of ownership 1971 Honda CB350, 2 1973 Honda CB500s, one was stolen, 1974 Can-Am 175 TNT, 1978 Yamaha XS11, 1978 Honda CX500, 1975 BMW R90S, 1983 BMW R65LS, 2005 Suzuki DL650 totaled, 2007 Suzuki DL650A, 2012 Suzuki DL650A

03-21-2013, 08:14 AM	#34
D.T. One wheel wonder... Joined: Aug 2004 Location: Moneyapolis, MN Oddometer: 6,305	Interesting that the 650 uses a steel liner and I know the SV 1000 uses the plated coating on aluminum. I looked in my Gladius service manual and didn't see anything about a SCEM coating on the cylinders. __________________ "Tough times don't last, but tough people do." Robert A. Schuler

03-26-2013, 09:02 AM	#37
betitou WeeRider! Joined: Feb 2012 Location: Spain Oddometer: 69	Good luck and keep on posting! __________________ 1990 Suzuki GS 500 E 2003 Suzuki GS 500 2004 Suzuki DL 650 V-Strom 2005 Yamaha XT 660 R Hello from Spain!

04-12-2013, 12:53 PM	#38
robberst ^OP Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: North Dakota Oddometer: 84	I'm still sticking to it Well, I'm still alive and have been making slight progress on my project. Here's what has been happening. After I finished measuring everything, I found the Front cylinder valve guides were worn past the limits. I made a tool out of an old propeller bolt to push out the guides (and install new ones) I shouldn't admit my crude methods, but I turned it down by chucking it into a hand drill and turning it against my bench grinder, then finished it up by turning it against a file. I hit them with a hammer a few times, but that seemed futile so I pushed them out with a press. I ordered the suzuki tools to ream the oversized hole for the new guides and to clean up the hole for the valve stem. They haven't arrived yet. I'm also still waiting for a gasket set, piston rings and the new guides. Today I assembled the rear head with new valve seals. Aren't they pretty I received t a generator rotor this week, off a SV. (ebay) So I reassembled the starter clutch and rotor, with the new front cam chain and then also the rear chain, clutch. It's been slow going, but I'm not in a hurry. This is what it looked like out my back door this morning. Nearly the middle of April and we have only had a few days above freezing and a couple feet of snow. YUUK Also I don't really need the suzuki until a small two-up trip in July. I have the KTM to get me about.

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03-20-2013, 07:11 PM	#31
robberst ^OP Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: North Dakota Oddometer: 84	I just did a Google search on SCEM. Didn't really come up with much. There are claims on wikipedia that the dl650 has it, but I don't think mine does. Perhaps the gladius motor and probably the 2012+ Dl650 do. Now I'm wondering if I should deglaze the cylinders....... I did start cleaning up the heads, valves and seats today. Amazing deposits of carbon and burnt oil. I suspect thats where my vibration and lack of power was coming from. Either preignition from the deposits, or low compression from crud in the seats. After reading about the hard coating on the valves, i was afraid to lap them even. I removed the valves to clean up carbon built up on the stems. After the clean-up I checked the fitment with Prussian Blue. They checked good.

03-21-2013, 12:32 PM	#35
robberst ^OP Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: North Dakota Oddometer: 84	Well the dl650 may or may not have the SCEM coating. Greywolf, don't change on my account, I don't know. I do know my cylinder do have a iron liner, and after talking to a mechanic here that was formerly a powersports mechanic with a little knowledge of such things. I'll deglaze the clyinders as planned. I'll continue to not know whether I have SCEM. Kinda sounds dirty (SCEM) cylinders are cleaned and put back together. I will replace the valve seals, but I put it back together so as not to mix up part locations. I'm not always very organized.

03-25-2013, 06:26 PM	#36
robberst ^OP Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: North Dakota Oddometer: 84	The alternator rotor removal tool arrived today. I got the pesky thing off. I admit, I'm not ever going to be a competitor for the worlds strongest man competition, but that was tight. Now after I got it off, there is lots of metallic dust stuck to it and one magnetic sector has a fracture. It difficult to see in the poor picture, but just above the removal tool. I can only it think that perhaps I dropped a tool or it was there before I took it apart. My new cam chains haven't arrived yet, but I'm guessing this isn't normal. This is the front and worst chain. UnTRIUMPHant.

04-12-2013, 09:44 PM	#39
Süsser Tod Studly Adventurer Joined: Dec 2010 Location: Mexico City, Mexico Oddometer: 566	DL1000 and DL650 share the frame, only difference are the engine mounts, which bolt on to the frame... That means fitting the 1000cc engine into the DL650 if a piece of cake, if you get the DL1000 engine mounts. Getting everything to work will be a PITA, as you basically need the wiring harness and ECU of the SV1K on the DL, and the wiring harness will need a lot of work to fit. As fof the issue at hand, it's quite common for the 650s to burn oil as they get older, valve guides wear. If you're replacing the cam chains, don't skim and replace the cam chain guides too!

04-12-2013, 10:07 PM	#40
PeterW Beastly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2005 Location: Gold Coast Oddometer: 1,976	Thanks for posting this, I did admittedly sell my old DL 650 when the oil consumption got annoying, it's interesting that my guess as to the cause of the oil consumption (worn valve guides/ seals) was probably correct. Pete

04-13-2013, 05:14 AM	#41
robberst ^OP Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: North Dakota Oddometer: 84	To my partially trained eyes, I honestly couldn't tell if any oil was leaking past those two seals. Those two valves were coated with LOTS of carbon build up, but it was obvious a lot of oil was going past the rings, and not so obvious if any got past the seals. Suzuki's method for checking the the wear of the valve guides/valve stems is to lift the valve off the seat about 1 cm, then to check with a dial indicator the amount of play in four directions. Up to .014 is allowed. Then by measuring the valve stem you can determine which needs to be replaced. My valve stems had no measurable wear. All guides excepting the two front exhaust measured about .008-.009 with the dial indicator. The two bad ones were .015-.018 which was very noticable. I did get replacement cam chain guides and tensioners along with chains. They all came off a very low mile 2007 SV650 that was salvaged.

05-06-2013, 10:32 AM	#42
robberst ^OP Adventurer Joined: Jun 2007 Location: North Dakota Oddometer: 84	it's been while since I reported.....but not much has changed. I have all the parts now. I received the valve guide reamer, the oversized reamer came, but they sent the wrong one. somehow I got the 11.3mm reamer instead of 10.8 still waiting on that. I called our local Suzuki shop, but they don't have the necessary tools. Apparently they send out any head repair work to someone else