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Old 03-23-2013, 09:38 PM   #61
JerryH
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I also rode 120 miles to look at the HD200, and found out about the RV200. No contest for me, if I were to buy a SYM, it would definitely be the RV200. The HD200 just has that Kymco People/Honda SH150i big wheeled look about it that I don't like in scooters. Part of my definition of a scooter is "small wheels"

Well that opinion changed. I definitely like the RV200 better, but the dealer 120 miles away wants $4199 OTD for one, and there is a local dealer 10 miles away that went back to being a SYM dealer (basically both dealers told me they were going to "give SYM a chance" and see what happened) Neither could promise future support. But the local dealer has a few brand new HD200s in stock, and is selling them for $3399 OTD. He was also interested in taking my '08 Vino 125 as a trade, while the high priced dealer doesn't take trades. He didn't offer much, but it got the OTD price down below $3000, and gives me room to park another scooter. They are closed for the next 2 days, so I have time to think it over, but $3000 is not enough to be really concerned about, and I have seriously been wanting a freeway legal scooter. The fact that it has a carb is another big plus to me, I can work on it. On the other hand is the possible parts availability issue.


I saw a 1500 Goldwing hanging off the back of a motor home in Gila Bend, AZ. Must have taken a forklift to get it up there.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:16 PM   #62
blugg1
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I've heard that the RV200 is something like 50-60 pounds heavier than the HD200? If true, and if they have identical motors, wouldn't that make the RV slower and possibly affect gas mileage?

I see that you live in Chandler. I live in Bisbee. You referred to a dealer 120 miles away. Must be in Tucson. Which dealer was it? Just curious as I don't want to be taken to the cleaners when I need service.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:11 PM   #63
JerryH
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Originally Posted by blugg1 View Post
I've heard that the RV200 is something like 50-60 pounds heavier than the HD200? If true, and if they have identical motors, wouldn't that make the RV slower and possibly affect gas mileage?

I see that you live in Chandler. I live in Bisbee. You referred to a dealer 120 miles away. Must be in Tucson. Which dealer was it? Just curious as I don't want to be taken to the cleaners when I need service.


The dealer in Tucson is called Scoot Over. They are nice, but are definitely a "fee" dealer. The price I got from them was for the RV200. I did not even ask about the HD200, since a dealer in Tempe, right next door, has the HD200, and for a very reasonable price. The dealer in Tempe is called Scooter Invasion. It's where I got my '09 Genuine Stella. According to the SYM site, there is only a $200 difference between the prices of the RV and the HD. Pretty sure the rest was in the dealers.

But again, both dealers used to carry SYM, then quit when the Carter Bros fiasco happened, and have just now started carrying them again. They seem to be wary of SYM from past experience, but hopeful that SYM can get it together. But neither could guarantee future parts availability, and they were up front about that. That depends on Alliance, or whoever might take their place.

I can get a Buddy 170 for the same price as the HD200, which is about the same actual displacement. IMO, the Buddy wins hands down in the looks department, and has good parts availability. But the SYM is physically bigger and fits me better, has liquid cooling, and a carb, all of which I consider good things if you are going to use it on trips, especially through the AZ desert in the summer.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:33 AM   #64
Midnullarbor
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I gather the latest Buddy-170 and Sym HD200(evo) have definite similarities in 170cc engine size, fuel injection, and lack of kickstart [Shame!! Each should have a kickstart plus a small lithium battery "back-up" for the ecu & efi. Admittedly that would add about $100 to the base cost ~ but that extra cost would be forgiven, even blessed, on the first occasion when you discover that the main battery is flat.].

Apart from that, they are very different creatures : very much apples & oranges.

The Sym HD200 is about 50 lb heavier, has 16" (versus 10") wheels, and about one-third more power [very noticeable out on country roads, and even more so when against a bit of headwind].
As a minor point, the Sym fuel tank is about 1 L bigger (7.5 versus 6.5 L) ~ which is not much extra . . . but would give roughly 20% longer "useful tank range" for similar riding conditions.

For city riders on slow or on very twisty roads, the Buddy-170 would be fine . . . and looks like a classic small scooter (very neat).
For "Advrider" touring and general country roads [even dirt], the Sym HD200 romps it in. The "high" speed handling and 16" wheels are the clincher, and the other advantages are just icing on the cake.
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:00 AM   #65
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Thanks, Jerry. I thought it might be Scoot Over. I've been there. Last year I test rode a People 150 but decided it didn't have enough beans for Bisbee's steep hills.

Cosmetically it's a classy store, jammed full of scooters, very clean, and locals tell me the mechanic is a good one. I think it's owned by two women. When I was certain I was going to buy the HD 200 last week I called them and asked what the price was on a used 2012. Both Kelly and N.A.D.A. just list the MSRP ($3499), but the woman said that if they had it, it would be priced at $2950. When I told her I'd paid $2100 she exclaimed, "Oh my God, you stole it!" I can't comment on their pricing as when I visited I had no standard of comparison, but from what you said, about their prices it's probably because they haven't any competition in Tucson.

However, there's a rule of thumb here in Cochise County. If a new car is priced at $20,000 in Sierra Vista, the same car will be $19,000 in Tucson and $18,000 in Phoenix. That generally holds more or less true.

They also sell Royal Enfield motorcycles and had about half a dozen lined up against one wall.

Midnullarbor, thanks for the comparison of the Buddy and the Sym. The Buddy's 10" wheels would be a deal-breaker for me.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:23 AM   #66
Birdmove
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That is my only negative to the SYH HD200. No kick starter. My Kymco People 150n has one. I have criticized the motorcycle industry for removing kick starters on almost every motorcycle. The only exception I can think of right now is some Royal Enfield Bullets. And most people don't agree with me on the motorcycles. But on a motorcycle you have the possibility of a push start. You aren't going to do that on a twist and go scooter.
I would suggest a yearly, or twice a year, removal and checking the battery in the SYM. It's an easy job. Remove it, check fluid level and add if needed, throw it on a trickle charger overnight, and reinstall.
One other nit pick is what you have to do to add coolant. Easy to check through a little cutout window to see the level in the coolant recovery tank. But hard to get to the fill cap and radiator cap. This should be an easy job.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:55 PM   #67
JerryH
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I think all scooters and motorcycles should have both kickstarters and centerstands, though it is hard to imagine a kickstarter on a Goldwing or a GSXR. One of the big issues I have with motorcycles, is many still have tube type tires from the 1940s (some combined with ABS brakes!!!) and no centerstand, so you have no way to fix a flat tire. I gave the Suzuki TU250X a long hard look, but just decided it wasn't worth the risk. A flat tire out in the middle of the AZ desert in 115 degree temps, and out of cell phone range could be more than just inconvenient, it could be fatal. If it had a centerstand, even an optional one like the Honda Nighthawk 250, I would have bought it.
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:57 PM   #68
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Good point, JerryH.
The Suzuki TU250 has got (among other benefits) classic good looks, and presumably the designers went for old-fashioned spoked wheels for "the look" ~ though a tubeless spoked wheel would have cost little more.

When you look at the safety & convenient-repair issues, it is crazy to choose tubed over tubeless.
Thank goodness, modern scooter designers have mostly kept clear of the idiocy of old-fashioned "spokes".

Passing over the slightly strange-looking BMW spoked wheels . . . it is the Yamaha 1200XTZ which shows how Suzuki should have gone with the TU250X.
Stylists could well produce that sort of spoked-tubeless wheel in a reasonably cosmetic "retro" appearance.



Admittedly for dirt bikes, tubed is still the way to go, to allow very low-pressure running in real off-road conditions. But even there, for most non-extreme usage, it would be grand to have a tubeless rear wheel.
The front does pose a problem, with the wheels having very narrow rims [under 2.15"] which would make for difficulties of tubeless design . . . yet the biggest problem remains the lack of choice of off-road/ knobbly rubber, as the manufacturers haven't made "the big switch" to broader-rim tubeless styles.
* Even now, for the Sym HD200, you have "a choice of one" if you want a decently dirt-capable front ~ the (50/50%) Shinko-244 3.00x16, tubed.
For the rear, you are pretty much forced to stay with 100% road rubber.



As you say, the craziest of all are the half-ton giant cruisers with spoked-tubed wheels.
They look fine & retro . . . but what a pain in real-world usage.
A triumph of styling over good engineering.
(Rather comparable to ultra-low-profile wheels on cars.)
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:08 PM   #69
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The early Gold Wings actually had a kick starter. But it was strapped under one of the fake gas tank covers. You had to insert it into an engine case where it would presumably engage the flywheel. I had heard that they didn't work real well, but at least they had one. Don't know about the later ones. I know this as my old friend had a 1975 "wing. There is no motorcycle made that I am less interested in than Honda's newer versions of the Gold Wing. That monster just isn't a motorcycle....it's a motor home. No thank you Honda.
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:33 PM   #70
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I bought a 2011(or maybe it was a 2010?) red TU250X simply because it had cool retro looks. Ran perfectly in all sorts of Arizona weather from very hot to very cold. However, it lacked power for 65-70 mph cruising (it was basically wide open at those speeds) and I finally traded it in on a 2012 DR650SE, a much more versatile machine. Downside is that it's too tall for a guy with a 30" inseam. I'll probably sell it one of these days now that I've got the HD200, which cruises 65-70 and isn't actually wide open.

I didn't like the tube tires on the TU and fortunately never had a flat, thanks to the various Gods, as Cochise County is littered with cell phone dead spots.

Put a small Seahorse hard case on the SYM's luggage rack today. Waterproof, lockable, and quite a bit cheaper than a Pelican.
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Old 07-26-2014, 12:39 PM   #71
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Thought an update was overdue

So I started this thread in April 2012. Back then I had just found out about SYM HD200s and was doing research to decide if one was a good option to use for my RV. I've since come to find they are great scooters, but in some parts of the country the dealer coverage is very slim.

Going for a SYM in these areas will need one to assume responsibility for doing maintenance yourself, but thanks to some larger dealers parts can be ordered and shipped.

In 2012 I saw a flat black HD200 that I really liked. Hadn't done my research, and by the time I did the dealer had sold it. They've never gotten another HD200 Evo since then.

Fast forward. I watch craigslist every day, and a month ago a flat black HD200 appeared on Craigslist with 3000 miles on it. Price was too high, so I gambled and let it sit. Owner dropped the price multiple times, so today I went over, test rode it, bought it and rode it home. Yup. It's the very same scooter I missed out on in 2012, only I spent lots less for it. Anyhow, in addition to my 1980 Vespa I have my first CVT scooter. I rode it home on the interstate with my wife following, and it did great. Here's a couple pictures after it's first good bath. Cheers.



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Old 07-26-2014, 12:57 PM   #72
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I have a 2012 HD200 EVO with 7K miles on the odometer. It's good looking and reliable. I swapped the OEM tires for Shinkos. Big improvement. Switched oil to 5W40 synthetic, changed plug to an iridium one. Great scoot, starts instantly regardless of ambient temperature: below freezing or 100f.

Congratulations on your find.
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Old 07-26-2014, 04:14 PM   #73
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Congrats, the Sym HD is a lovely scoot. I'm sure you will have lots of fun on it and will be an excellent commuter for you.
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Old 07-26-2014, 06:38 PM   #74
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We bought a new leftover 2008 in 2009 or so. We shipped it to Hawaii when we mover here in 2011. We have a 2009 Kymco People 150 also. Both are fine rides. The SYM is the powerhouse, the Kymco is smaller, lighter, and more nimble. Think we'll keep both forever. The SYM is fast approaching 15,000 miles. I just got a new belt, rollers, and plastic indexes, as it's still on the original belt. What a great scooter!
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Old 07-26-2014, 06:39 PM   #75
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Congrats on the new acquisition!!
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