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Old 03-19-2013, 03:48 PM   #6151
SAPB
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Originally Posted by bross View Post
Possibly for a clean sheet design of a new bike, but doesn't help with a lot of current bikes like Suzuki's DR series, Honda XR, XLs which are basically unchanged for the past dozen or so, or longer years.

And as far as the manufacturers engineering in a fix or solution for ethanol, I wouldn't hold my breath. We've been running ethanol in our fuel for probably 15 years here in Canada and our new 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T has as part of it's regular maintenance...

one bottle of additive added to the fuel tank at every engine oil change is recommended. Additives are available from your authorized HYUNDAI dealer along with information on how to use them. Do not mix other additives.
I've been using gas stabilizer for years, not knowing when the next time I would actually be able to ride. My daughter's most recent bike, the dealer recommended running it every other tank, even in the summer, because of the ethanol. This could open up a can of worms........My old boss, his father had a farm, and ran stabilizer in all his tractors, cars, and trucks, not knowing when they would ever be used. Too each his/her own, that's what I do.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:17 PM   #6152
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Originally Posted by Slipinn View Post
Thank you for reminding me. I have removed the locking tab on the pilot screw and opened it to 2 1/4 turns.
I also installed an inline fuel filter. The slow speed jet has such little holes in it that a grain of sand could block them. Now am trying to find a solution to this awful ethanol . Must be some reasonably priced additive to prevent it gumming the carb when it sits for a couple of weeks. Was just at ace hardware and their additive for small engines is 10 bucks and on the can says treats one gallon!!!
That makes for some mighty expensive fuel.

I did not raise the needle thou because I was thinking the needle only has to do with the Main jet and would not come into play during start up or idle. Am I mistaken on this point and would raising the needle jet help on starting?
Thank you
Chuck
I don't think it will help much with your starting ease. Mine started right up with ease after buzzing off the ear.
But I think if you raise the needle 2 washers your lean engine will be happier which may help it run 65mph without feeling so starved.
If you don't know how to do it check out this link. I used his tips for my 93 XR250L & my 85 XL350R. I noticed a real nice change on my XL. Power wheelies right up in 1st with ease.

http://www.rickramsey.net/CRF230Fcarb.htm
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:19 AM   #6153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slipinn View Post
Thank you for reminding me. I have removed the locking tab on the pilot screw and opened it to 2 1/4 turns.
I also installed an inline fuel filter. The slow speed jet has such little holes in it that a grain of sand could block them. Now am trying to find a solution to this awful ethanol . Must be some reasonably priced additive to prevent it gumming the carb when it sits for a couple of weeks. Was just at ace hardware and their additive for small engines is 10 bucks and on the can says treats one gallon!!!
That makes for some mighty expensive fuel.
...
Chuck
I use a combination of Seafoam and Star Tron fuel treatment. Every tank, every bike, because I never know how long one will sit without use, and I have mostly relatively large fuel tanks. It does add significantly to the cost of fuel, but I'd gladly pay twice that to fill up with non-ethanol. Ethanol is evil stuff. It's basically filler, taking up space in your gas tank and wallet, and providing nothing but headaches in return. Not too long ago not many publications made a peep about it, but now it's finally getting some attention, none of it good. Do the additives work? Hard to say for sure. If a jet is completely clogged, it's all but hopeless and carb removal is about the only fix (some bikes, you can carefully remove the bowl and pilot jet without removing the carb, which is a huge time saver). If a jet is partially clogged, additives do seem to help clear the clog relatively quickly. Even though I always use the additives, when the bikes will be sitting over the winter I drain the fuel from the tank completely and allow them to dry inside. This is to prevent and reduce swelling to the plastic tanks, which make some of them difficult to impossible to mount. The only real fix is to not use ethanol, if you can. Ask your local gas station if they can get one grade of gas without ethanol from their distributor - sure it will cost more, but I bet they will sell out that tank far faster than they think no matter the price.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:48 AM   #6154
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Www.christini.com

I just discovered the christini DS that the navy seals also use. This looks like an awesome bike. I wonder what the base mfg of this frame and engine is? Perhaps a Ktm?
I like the military model they sell. I also saw one on ebay for about the same price as the xr650 . I see all their models are all wheel drive.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:19 AM   #6155
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Originally Posted by Slipinn View Post
I wonder what the base mfg of this frame and engine is? Perhaps a Ktm?
They have converted a number of bikes over the last several years. I recall some being KTMs, and I've seen one or two Hondas in person as well. They may have done Yammies also.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:50 AM   #6156
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Christini motorcycles

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Originally Posted by sandalscout View Post
They have converted a number of bikes over the last several years. I recall some being KTMs, and I've seen one or two Hondas in person as well. They may have done Yammies also.
I see they have a 250cc and a 300cc but they are 2 stroke. Too bad they don't make those in a street legal DS.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:56 AM   #6157
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Originally Posted by Earthscape View Post
I use a combination of Seafoam and Star Tron fuel treatment. Every tank, every bike, because I never know how long one will sit without use, and I have mostly relatively large fuel tanks.
Curious about this. For 4 or 5 years, I used SeaFoam periodically in my mower and bikes, usually once mid-season, and again as a fuel stabilizer when storing for winter.

SeaFoam has helped with a neighbor's poorly running, old outboard, and seemed to help an older carb'd bike run smoother.

Last Fall, I used StarTron instead of SeaFoam as a stabilizer for winterizing. Based on mostly positive reviews, both products work as far as I know, but then I really don't know what would have happened had I not used them.

So the question - since both are fuel system cleaners and fuel stabilizers, why do you mix them? Are you just covering your bets?

Two concerns:

1) mixing different chemical cocktails could potentially cause unintended consequences (ammonia and bleach?)

2) SeaFoam is low concentration, and it takes a lot to treat a tank of gas (though the instructions are vague as to exactly how much). StarTron is very concentrated; if I recall correctly from last Fall think I used 5 ml to treat 2 gallons. Do you use something like 19 parts SeaFoam for 1 part StarTron?

Personally, if I liked both products and wanted to use them simultaneously, I would alternate tanks, rather mix them.

Also, StarTron is so concentrate, it is really cheap. Even if one were to use it every tank, at 5 ml per, a $6 bottle would last a long time.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:30 AM   #6158
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I do pretty much the same as you guys but instead of Startron, I use Stabil and Seafoam/Amsoil Quickshot. I have never thought or believed Stabil had any real cleaning properties so that's why I use Seafoam/Quickshot a few times a year as a cleaning agent. Never tried Startron, and there's no reason why I couldn't just use Seafoam for storage either, just got started with Stabil years ago before I even knew about Seafoam so have just stayed with it, plus it's a bit cheaper than Seafoam.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:51 AM   #6159
Earthscape
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Laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_l View Post
Curious about this. For 4 or 5 years, I used SeaFoam periodically in my mower and bikes, usually once mid-season, and again as a fuel stabilizer when storing for winter.

SeaFoam has helped with a neighbor's poorly running, old outboard, and seemed to help an older carb'd bike run smoother.

Last Fall, I used StarTron instead of SeaFoam as a stabilizer for winterizing. Based on mostly positive reviews, both products work as far as I know, but then I really don't know what would have happened had I not used them.

So the question - since both are fuel system cleaners and fuel stabilizers, why do you mix them? Are you just covering your bets?

Two concerns:

1) mixing different chemical cocktails could potentially cause unintended consequences (ammonia and bleach?)

2) SeaFoam is low concentration, and it takes a lot to treat a tank of gas (though the instructions are vague as to exactly how much). StarTron is very concentrated; if I recall correctly from last Fall think I used 5 ml to treat 2 gallons. Do you use something like 19 parts SeaFoam for 1 part StarTron?

Personally, if I liked both products and wanted to use them simultaneously, I would alternate tanks, rather mix them.

Also, StarTron is so concentrate, it is really cheap. Even if one were to use it every tank, at 5 ml per, a $6 bottle would last a long time.
From my experience, SeaFoam performed better at cleaning clogged jets. Star Tron performed better at preventing phase separation and fuel preservation. Not having the containers in front of me for reference (so not sure if I'm remembering this correctly), SeaFoam is based more on highly refined petrolium products, and been around a long time, prior to ethanol. It's not only a fuel additive. I think of it for me as treating what remains of the real gasoline in what's available now, improving the quality of the fuel as pump fuel quality goes down. As you said, it's not highly-concentrated and doesn't go far. I only add a little to a tank full - maybe 1/8 can for 4 gallons or so. I don't rely on it to treat the effects of ethanol since it was invented prior to ethanol. I use the recommended amount of Star Tron per volume (as close as I can anyway) for each tank fill up. I'm using this to try to minimize the effects of ethanol. I don't loose any sleep over the combination because SeaFoam and Star Tron are different types of products. Of course, I'm not a chemical engineer or additive expert, I could be completely wrong and at any moment any of my bikes could just vaporize, but so far, no negative side-effects.
For alternating the treatments in tank fulls, I don't think SeaFoam would provide the protection from ethanol that Start Tron does, so that tank full may be "at risk". Plus, the expense of Sea Foam precludes that (for me).
Interesting to note, for any considering using Star Tron, for whatever reason, I found that smaller bottles (8 oz?) indicate twice the concentration that the larger bottles do (16 oz, 32 oz). What I mean by that is, the instructions on the small bottle tell you to use twice as much as the large bottles, for seemingly the same product. I buy the 32 oz bottle on line, and it's much cheaper that way.
To directly answer your questions
1) if you (we) allow your bike to burn corn alcohol with its known damaging effects, mixing fuel additives is nuthin'
2) as above, just a fraction of the recommended SeaFoam, and the recommended amount of Star Tron

Maybe I'm crazy, but I hate ethanol 7 ways from Sunday. I've had my bikes a loooong time, and I can see the effects it has had.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:50 PM   #6160
Slipinn
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Startron

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earthscape View Post
I use a combination of Seafoam and Star Tron fuel treatment. Every tank, every bike, because I never know how long one will sit without use, and I have mostly relatively large fuel tanks. It does add significantly to the cost of fuel, but I'd gladly pay twice that to fill up with non-ethanol. Ethanol is evil stuff. It's basically filler, taking up space in your gas tank and wallet, and providing nothing but headaches in return. Not too long ago not many publications made a peep about it, but now it's finally getting some attention, none of it good. Do the additives work? Hard to say for sure. If a jet is completely clogged, it's all but hopeless and carb removal is about the only fix (some bikes, you can carefully remove the bowl and pilot jet without removing the carb, which is a huge time saver). If a jet is partially clogged, additives do seem to help clear the clog relatively quickly. Even though I always use the additives, when the bikes will be sitting over the winter I drain the fuel from the tank completely and allow them to dry inside. This is to prevent and reduce swelling to the plastic tanks, which make some of them difficult to impossible to mount. The only real fix is to not use ethanol, if you can. Ask your local gas station if they can get one grade of gas without ethanol from their distributor - sure it will cost more, but I bet they will sell out that tank far faster than they think no matter the price.
You guys sold me!!i went out and bought two bottles of Startron.Appreciate the info! Thank you!
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:58 PM   #6161
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I know I shouldn't be like this but hey,dump the additives and the battery tenders and ride the bike,ok I made the statement don't mean to be mean sorry if I come off as a snob I use my bike as my main wheels and my toy so I don't see stuff that happens when ya let'r sit.BtW I have made it clear up to a KLR650 but I have many miles on a DR350 and a Ninja250,I will be looking towards a wr250 or a crf250 as my next machine These 250 offerings have really answered my needs...
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Old 03-24-2013, 08:48 PM   #6162
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I know I shouldn't be like this but hey,dump the additives and the battery tenders and ride the bike,ok I made the statement don't mean to be mean sorry if I come off as a snob I use my bike as my main wheels and my toy so I don't see stuff that happens when ya let'r sit.BtW I have made it clear up to a KLR650 but I have many miles on a DR350 and a Ninja250,I will be looking towards a wr250 or a crf250 as my next machine These 250 offerings have really answered my needs...

That's ok, lots of bikers are assholes.

I agree with what you're saying, but then I've never had any crappy gas carb problems yet. I have never used any stabilizer and have let some of my tools & toys sit months, maybe over a year with my weed eater and maybe chainsaw. I think 2 stokes are easier maybe since it's mixed gas?

I keep "crossing my fingers" when I read these threads, figuring I'm on borrowed time and sooner or later my luck's going to run out.....Til then I'll continue my slack'er ways. I figure that they won't all clog up at the same time, but wouldn't it really suck if they did??!!

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Old 03-24-2013, 09:17 PM   #6163
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That's ok, lots of bikers are assholes.

I agree with what you're saying, but then I've never had any crappy gas carb problems yet. I have never used any stabilizer and have let some of my tools & toys sit months, maybe over a year with my weed eater and maybe chainsaw. I think 2 stokes are easier maybe since it's mixed gas?

I keep "crossing my fingers" when I read these threads, figuring I'm on borrowed time and sooner or later my luck's going to run out.....Til then I'll continue my slack'er ways. I figure that they won't all clog up at the same time, but wouldn't it really suck if they did??!!

Its a non issue if your fuel is pure gas, but in many parts of the U.S. we have to suffer with reformulated fuel. My solution has been screw the additives and store them with pure gas. I run the shit gas out of them first obviously.
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Old 03-25-2013, 04:44 AM   #6164
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I've just noticed some stations around here have stickers on their 91 octance stating that there's no ethynol. The price goes up as well. Something like 3.59 for 87, 3.69 for 89, 3.89 for 91.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:41 AM   #6165
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
That's ok, lots of bikers are assholes.

I agree with what you're saying, but then I've never had any crappy gas carb problems yet. I have never used any stabilizer and have let some of my tools & toys sit months, maybe over a year with my weed eater and maybe chainsaw. I think 2 stokes are easier maybe since it's mixed gas?

I keep "crossing my fingers" when I read these threads, figuring I'm on borrowed time and sooner or later my luck's going to run out.....Til then I'll continue my slack'er ways. I figure that they won't all clog up at the same time, but wouldn't it really suck if they did??!!

I'm another one who only uses premium fuel (without ethanol - Shell V-Power) in all my gas engines (Honda string trimmer, 2 Honda mowers, 4 fuel-injected motorcycles, and 2 four-stroke carbureted dirtbikes) over the past 5 years, with no additives while stored for the winter. I've yet to see a problem with any of them. Just fill them up when I put them away. They all run great. Now, of course, my personal anecdotal account should never pass for sound scientific evidence (the plural of anecdote is not data) - but I'm still curious to see how this informal exercise turns out in the long-term.

Mike

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