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Old 03-25-2013, 05:16 AM   #481
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Good thing there's some controversy after a somewhat boring race...
It'd be a long three weeks otherwise.

I have to say the thing about the race & team orders in general, is that first & foremost it is a team sport. All the money that comes in at the end of the season for winning is based on the constructors championship, so it seems to me that it is a bit of a slap in the face to the team if a driver gets selfish.

I'd love to see them sit Vettel for one race, but at the end of the day he scores team points, so they won't do it. Maybe they'll let the backup driver take some P1 or P2 time in China.

The German contingent at Mercedes is up in arms with Ross Brawn as well. So things aren't rosy in that team either.

I guess it's roll on China in three weeks!
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:21 AM   #482
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from F1 +

Quote:
German faction sides against Brawn over Rosberg team order

The unpopular and for many unjustified order cost Nico a sure podium.
Monday, March 25, 2013




Ross Brawn (Left) and T



March 25th, 2013 (GMM).- Mercedes' German-speaking faction has spoken out against the team orders that prevented Nico Rosberg from finishing on the podium in Malaysia.
German Rosberg asked and asked again to be let past his new British teammate Lewis Hamilton on Sunday, who was saving fuel to the finish as he ran in third place.
Team boss Ross Brawn answered repeatedly: "Negative."
Afterwards - but before Hamilton admitted on the podium that he was uncomfortable about finishing third - Rosberg told strategist Brawn on the radio to "Remember this one."
It was a saga not unnoticed by Mercedes' newly-arrived Austrian shareholders and bosses Niki Lauda and Toto Wolff, who were not amused.
"From a sporting perspective, that was wrong," Lauda told German television RTL.
"They should have let him (Rosberg) go.
"We need to talk to Ross, if this is the strategy to be used from now on," he added.
Wolff agreed: "From a sporting point of view, that's not what we want to see."
Brawn, whose role as team boss is believed threatened by the Austrian duo and also the likely arrival of McLaren's Paddy Lowe, is understood to have defended the 'team order' on the basis that Rosberg was also low on fuel.
Rosberg denied: "I did not have to save fuel. Everything was alright.
"I will sit down together with Ross to rethink whether this was really the right decision."
The 27-year-old's rationale is that, with tyres in good shape and fuel in the tank, he might have been able to chase down the leading Red Bulls.
According to Auto Motor und Sport, 1996 world champion Damon Hill agreed: "He might at least have been able to hurry the Red Bulls into a tyre problem."
Rosberg added: "I don't know if I would have gotten the Red Bulls. But I felt good at the time.
"I was doing well and would have liked to see how far I could have gone."
Justifying his anger on the radio, he explained: "I tried to get them to reconsider their decision."
But Rosberg denied Red Bull figure Dr Helmut Marko's claim that the episode demonstrates that Lewis Hamilton is Mercedes' obvious "number 1" driver.
"I can understand how this (episode) creates that impression," Rosberg responded, "but I am sure that if I had been in front, the decision would have been the same."
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:50 AM   #483
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I'd love to see them sit Vettel for one race, but at the end of the day he scores team points, so they won't do it.
If they don't and come out with some old bollocks about having cleared the air, after such a public refusal to do what his team principal told him to do, then Horner is going to become a laughing-stock in the media and in the sport, probably within Red Bull Racing.

This may end-up with ultimatums being bandied about. If I were in Horner's shoes I'd demand that the Red Bull bosses back me or sack me. Anything less undermines his authority within the team disastrously.

As you quite rightly say, first and foremost F1 is a team sport. There has to be a demonstrably clear pecking order. Vettel hanging his head and saying sorry isn't going to convince many that Horner has control.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:52 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by A. T. T-W View Post
If they don't and come out with some old bollocks about having cleared the air, after such a public refusal to do what his team principal told him to do, then Horner is going to become a laughing-stock in the media and in the sport, probably within Red Bull Racing.

This may end-up with ultimatums being bandied about. If I were in Horner's shoes I'd demand that the Red Bull bosses back me or sack me. Anything less undermines his authority within the team disastrously.

As you quite rightly say, first and foremost F1 is a team sport. There has to be a demonstrably clear pecking order. Vettel hanging his head and saying sorry isn't going to convince many that Horner has control.


well said.

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Old 03-25-2013, 08:59 AM   #485
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:34 AM   #486
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this probably won't last long on YouTube





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g容g screwed with this post 03-25-2013 at 12:58 PM Reason: youtube will likely get pulled...
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:20 AM   #487
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Red Bull won't discipline Vettel. They never have, and he has disobeyed team orders on several occasions in the past.

Usually, it's when he has the lead late in a race and they tell him to dial it back (sound familiar?) Vettel ignores them and pushes his equipment so he can set fast lap on light fuel tanks.

Helmut Marko, whose power I don't quite understand, protects the boy. Vettel has turned into a spoiled child. He's never held accountable for his actions.

So is it any surprise that when he's told to not touch the piece of candy on the table, he immediately stuffs it in his face? He doesn't believe has has to obey orders because he never has and he's never been spanked for it.

Nothing will change. I'd be astonished if Red Bull sit him. Too much is at stake and he's too well protected. This will be one more compromise that Horner has to live with. But his arrogant and dismissive radio comment about Webber, and his theft of the race from a trusting teammate, have revealed the stain on his character.

ps Typical that Mercedes have their best finish since they bought Brawn, and Lauda is causing trouble. All the whispers about him were true. He should be celebrating, instead he's busy undermining Ross Brawn.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #488
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Great picture !
The only real question is will the student eventually surpass the master !

Maybe I watched a different race but around lap 28 Vettel started to mention how slow Webber was. Then after losing time behind Webber, Vettel got stuck in traffic after the next round of pit stops. He then had to pass Hamilton and another car... to get back into second. At his first attempt out of the pits to pass Webber Horner mentioned that Seb was being silly! Nerver said don't pass your slower teammate, stay behind Webber or anyting to that effect. Rus Brawn was pretty clear with Nico...

I also don't think it would be a good idea for Horner to say back me or sack me because I believe Webber is right about one thing: Seb is protected ! And rightfully so, he gets the job done. 3 DWC's, 27 race wins and numerous poles.

If anyone should be sat down for a race it should be Horner for not getting Seb through eairlier! Keeping Seb behind Webber is not in the best interest of Red Bull Racing! It is piss poor leadership !

If I am wrong and Horner and the team sit Seb down... Great, Vettel can take his ass to Ferrari next year and spank Red Bull Racing and Alonso too !

Vettel is the heart and soul of Red Bull Racing ! Like it or not, Vettel is also the hottest driver at the moment and will probably be so for a while. Get used to it !

My two cents!
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:09 PM   #489
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Seb is protected ! And rightfully so, he gets the job done. 3 DWC's, 27 race wins and numerous poles.
And that is all that matters.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #490
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Remember the good old days when Lemans was an endurance race and F1 was a sprint?!?
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:35 PM   #491
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And that is all that matters.
YES! Unfortunately! In a world without dignity, honor or anything good, it is all that matters!

The guy already has 3 crowns and he will become more and more like Michael Schumacher as time goes by.

Greed, disrespect, betrayal, arrogance, etc....
Viva Vettel! Lets step on everyone to get that 4th crown!
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:36 PM   #492
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Maybe I watched a different race but around lap 28 Vettel started to mention how slow Webber was. Then after losing time behind Webber, Vettel got stuck in traffic after the next round of pit stops. He then had to pass Hamilton and another car... to get back into second.
At that time, Webber was under team orders to save his tires. It was the same order to save tires that Vettel later decided to ignore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
At his first attempt out of the pits to pass Webber Horner mentioned that Seb was being silly! Nerver said don't pass your slower teammate, stay behind Webber or anyting to that effect. Rus Brawn was pretty clear with Nico...
Remember, there's a substantial delay on when we hear the radio transmissions -- perhaps as much as a full lap.

Also, Red Bull clearly gave an order not to pass. Listen to the video of the driver's waiting area when Webber and Vettel meet.

First words out of Webber's mouth? "Multi 21". Apparently that's Red Bull's team order for dialing back the engine and staying in position.

ps If Vettel ever goes to Ferrari, he'll find out who really runs things. And it's not a driver. You'll notice how Alonso has been on his best behavior since driving the red cars.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:39 PM   #493
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It's difficult to rate drivers, because equipment is so important.

But right now I'd rate Vettel as 3rd best. I'd put Alonso and Hamilton ahead of him.

Vettel has never had a bad car. I can't see him doing what Alonso did with last year's dog of a Ferrari.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:44 PM   #494
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YES! Unfortunately! In a world without dignity, honor or anything good, it is all that matters!

The guy already has 3 crowns and he will become more and more like Michael Schumacher as time goes by.

Greed, disrespect, betrayal, arrogance, etc....
Viva Vettel! Lets step on everyone to get that 4th crown!
Every champion is ruthless.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:03 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
Great picture !
The only real question is will the student eventually surpass the master !

Maybe I watched a different race but around lap 28 Vettel started to mention how slow Webber was. Then after losing time behind Webber, Vettel got stuck in traffic after the next round of pit stops. He then had to pass Hamilton and another car... to get back into second. At his first attempt out of the pits to pass Webber Horner mentioned that Seb was being silly! Nerver said don't pass your slower teammate, stay behind Webber or anyting to that effect. Rus Brawn was pretty clear with Nico...

I also don't think it would be a good idea for Horner to say back me or sack me because I believe Webber is right about one thing: Seb is protected ! And rightfully so, he gets the job done. 3 DWC's, 27 race wins and numerous poles.

If anyone should be sat down for a race it should be Horner for not getting Seb through eairlier! Keeping Seb behind Webber is not in the best interest of Red Bull Racing! It is piss poor leadership !

If I am wrong and Horner and the team sit Seb down... Great, Vettel can take his ass to Ferrari next year and spank Red Bull Racing and Alonso too !

Vettel is the heart and soul of Red Bull Racing ! Like it or not, Vettel is also the hottest driver at the moment and will probably be so for a while. Get used to it !

My two cents!
Vettel may have been CLAIMING he was faster, but up until the final pit stop Webber turned in a faster lap time than Vettel on EVERY non-pit lap.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/2...ix-lap-charts/

Turn off all the drivers but Webber and Vettel on the Grand Prix Race Chart.
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