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Old 03-25-2013, 10:27 AM   #31
larryboy
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Originally Posted by apfranzen View Post
What do you guys think?



What do I need to look into next?

Yup, starved for oil. Another example that all KLR's need to have the oil screen cleaned sooner rather than later.

You need to pull the right side cover and clean the screen. Also take the oil pump apart and check for scoring.

PM sent about a deal on a head and every last part you might need. I have a good oil pump if you need it also.

You shouldn't need a cam chain, they're pretty tough on the KLR...tensioner might be fully extended.
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Old 03-25-2013, 11:12 AM   #32
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sooooooo.......... why did it run out of oil? might be time to re-ring the piston while the head is off. better yet a 685/688 better look at the cylinder & do some measurin'
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Old 03-25-2013, 03:50 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
sooooooo.......... why did it run out of oil? might be time to re-ring the piston while the head is off. better yet a 685/688 better look at the cylinder & do some measurin'
What ^^^ said.
Talk to EagleMike about doing the 685/688.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:17 AM   #34
larryboy
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
sooooooo.......... why did it run out of oil? might be time to re-ring the piston while the head is off. better yet a 685/688 better look at the cylinder & do some measurin'

I thought they were fixed by 2009?

98% chance the screen is plugged, that's how it goes most of the time as you well know.
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Old 03-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
sooooooo.......... why did it run out of oil? might be time to re-ring the piston while the head is off. better yet a 685/688 better look at the cylinder & do some measurin'
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:14 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by apfranzen View Post
Hey guys, long time no update, by I'm back at it!

Tore into it and sure enough the exhaust cam shaft is scored and the head journals for the exhaust cam shaft are fairly chewed up. Oil was dark, but no shards of metal at all.

My best guess of what happened is because the exhaust camshaft is the last part of the engine to get oil, it went dry first, started getting chewed up, camshaft seized up, killed the engine. The key from the cam chain gear to the exhaust cam shaft was broken, so the gear is spinning freely. What do you guys think?

My thoughts on what needs to be replaced as of now:
-new head
-new exhaust cam shaft journals
-new cam chain because it was strained?
-what else?
@Beezer & @RandoCommando - Wish I would have hopped on those links sooner, I just hadn't torn into the engine to confirm what I needed yet. What do you guys think of this, $650 for head assembly with valves: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-KLR...item589cd1e15f

What do I need to look into next? Make sure the valves weren't bent?

Shot of engine block from the right side:


Shot of exhaust cam shaft damage:


Shot of the top journals:
What is the tube connecting the intake and exhaust cam shaft journals?
I purchased an 08 KLR for my dad knowing it had been run out of oil ie cams were shot. I intended to do a 685 on his bike for our trip no matter what so i figured it was worth the gmable. My plan was to just replace the head and cams. I have seen them on ebay (with cams) for $500 or sometimes a little less. Personally think $650 without cams is to much, but they are fairly rare so if time is of the essence you may have no choice.

I ended up finding a complete 08 engine with <1000 miles on ebay that I paid ~$900 for. At $1800 I doubt those engines sell. The guy had this one listed for $1100 with best offer so I offered $750ish (then there was $150 shipping) and he accepted. I figure I can sell off parts of the other one to decrease the cost even further, IMO it was a better deal than just buying a head and cams. You can check prices items sold (or if they didn't sell on ebay). I went thru and saw he had listed the motor for $<1000 previously and it didn't sell. Don't be afraid to make a 'resonable' offer.

It is a bit of a crap shoot as to the bottom end, I have heard stories both ways. I'd definetly do your best to flush it with kerosene or diesel to flush all the shavings out of the motor. Pull the oil screen as said before. Some people get away with this (this was my plan before finding the whole motor) but sometimes you just can't get the aluminum shavings out of the bearings and most people consider the bottom end a lost cause if the crank bearing goes (one of the parts I believe the race isn't available so you have to replace the whole crank).

As to your questions, only buy a head that includes the journal caps, they are machined as a unit. My guess is the cam chain will be fine, but I believe there are specs for it in the manual if you have one. Also pull the left side cover to veryify everything in there is good. I personally wouldn't reuse the valves, but you can determine if they are good enough. I'd pretty much consider the head a total loss and go from there. The intake cam journals look 'ok' based on the pic in my phone so I'd imagine the intake cam is decent and may be reusable, but make sure the cam is smooth to the touch. If it isn't ditch it also. Good luck.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:27 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
sooooooo.......... why did it run out of oil? might be time to re-ring the piston while the head is off. better yet a 685/688 better look at the cylinder & do some measurin'
How much would a re-ring go? Would a re-ring be a sure bet to stop the oil burning problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandoCommando View Post
What ^^^ said.
Talk to EagleMike about doing the 685/688.
Will catch up with EagleMike, or maybe he'll chime in on this thread. Have been thinking about doing the 685/688 kit. Which kits do you guys have experience with? How much has it cost you guys to bore out the block in your experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by securety10 View Post
I purchased an 08 KLR for my dad knowing it had been run out of oil ie cams were shot. I intended to do a 685 on his bike for our trip no matter what so i figured it was worth the gmable. My plan was to just replace the head and cams. I have seen them on ebay (with cams) for $500 or sometimes a little less. Personally think $650 without cams is to much, but they are fairly rare so if time is of the essence you may have no choice.

I ended up finding a complete 08 engine with <1000 miles on ebay that I paid ~$900 for. At $1800 I doubt those engines sell. The guy had this one listed for $1100 with best offer so I offered $750ish (then there was $150 shipping) and he accepted. I figure I can sell off parts of the other one to decrease the cost even further, IMO it was a better deal than just buying a head and cams. You can check prices items sold (or if they didn't sell on ebay). I went thru and saw he had listed the motor for $<1000 previously and it didn't sell. Don't be afraid to make a 'resonable' offer.

It is a bit of a crap shoot as to the bottom end, I have heard stories both ways. I'd definetly do your best to flush it with kerosene or diesel to flush all the shavings out of the motor. Pull the oil screen as said before. Some people get away with this (this was my plan before finding the whole motor) but sometimes you just can't get the aluminum shavings out of the bearings and most people consider the bottom end a lost cause if the crank bearing goes (one of the parts I believe the race isn't available so you have to replace the whole crank).

As to your questions, only buy a head that includes the journal caps, they are machined as a unit. My guess is the cam chain will be fine, but I believe there are specs for it in the manual if you have one. Also pull the left side cover to veryify everything in there is good. I personally wouldn't reuse the valves, but you can determine if they are good enough. I'd pretty much consider the head a total loss and go from there. The intake cam journals look 'ok' based on the pic in my phone so I'd imagine the intake cam is decent and may be reusable, but make sure the cam is smooth to the touch. If it isn't ditch it also. Good luck.
Wow, thanks for the great guidelines info on cost. Also, good idea on washing the engine out with diesel or kerosene. Will definitely make sure that I get the cam caps that go with the head. Will measure the cam chain to make sure it's within tolerance - does anybody have the spec off-hand? Not sure that I still have my manual around/ever received it. Also, I haven't seen hardly any shavings from my exploration. Just a couple small shavings in the oil filter. Hopefully I won't need to look into replacing output shaft bearings etc. in the bottom end.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:51 PM   #38
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Update for you guys. Spend a good amount working on it yesterday and finally got the head off!





Looks like the intake valves shown signs of the piston contacting? The intake valves definitely do not even come close to sealing, so I am guessing that the valves are bent.



Head in up position. Are the indentations from contacting the valves something that would require a piston replacement?



At this point, it is clear almost the entire top-end needs replacing. Does the carbon buildup looking uncharacteristically bad for a KLR? The piston sleeve/block do not look scored at all. Might get away with a re-sleeve, but am thinking of boring it out. Would the re-sleeve solve the oil burning problem? See post above for some additional questions I asked. Going to get a new top-end coming and clean out the engine with kerosene or diesel and check out the oil pump and oil screen. Really getting the itch to ride again!

Thanks again for all of your help guys, wouldn't be making it this far without you guys. Awesome community!
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:28 AM   #39
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Sorry if I missed it in the thread, did the bike run out of oil or was there an oil delivery problem to the exhaust cam?
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Old 04-01-2013, 08:48 AM   #40
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Sorry if I missed it in the thread, did the bike run out of oil or was there an oil delivery problem to the exhaust cam?
I have not cleaned/checked the oil screen. The oil was low, so I am thinking of re-sleeving or doing a big bore kit because I am suspect that is the source of the oil burn/leak problem. Wouldn't doubt that the screen has some build-up - this is my next project to look into.
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Old 04-01-2013, 11:47 AM   #41
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re-sleeving is not required. thats a lot of carbon.... rings are prolly shot. it is also possible the bore it out of round and/or over size as well. you can measure it & see. just using new rings might fix it but I have doubt. when the rings wear, it also wears the piston grooves. it might fix it for a while, but will be a burner again pretty soon. to be sure of a good fix that will give the bike years of life I would go to the proven aftermarket parts rather than a Kawi oversize piston.

either the 685 or 688 will work fine as long as the bore job is done by someone that knows how to do it. going to the 685 leaves room in the future to up to the 688 if needed (like 40k miles down the road).

the bottom end is all roller bearings... they need very little oil. look the big end of the connecting rod over very carefully... if it has any "blue" from heating then it's no good & not worth messing with. if it looks normal I wouldn't worry.

yes, clean the oil pick up screen. take the oil pump apart & check it close.

if the intake valves are bent, the ex valves were probably closed & are OK. klr valves can make a lot of miles

I have rescued a few that ran low on oil & had success. flush everything with kerosene, install good parts & ride on.

don't use the Comtech gaskets, sometimes they leak... the Kawi ones work
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:17 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by apfranzen View Post
I have not cleaned/checked the oil screen. The oil was low, .
How low? Still in the sight glass but low, or have to lean the bike to see it in the sight glass, or I drained it and less than a liter came out?
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:03 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post

... going to the 685 leaves room in the future to up to the 688 if needed (like 40k miles down the road).


... don't use the Comtech gaskets, sometimes they leak... the Kawi ones work
I am at 40K on the 685 and it is still great! No oil usage that can be noticed! Feels the same as when it was put in! That is good news for those considering the change. It was a unit bored by Cary.

I installed Cometic Gaskets. No leaks or weaping whatsoever.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:45 PM   #44
Beezer
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ymmv.... I chose 40k at random... should last that long no problem if everything was fitted correctly. as for the comtec gaskets... I read they had leak problems literally the day after I bolted the jug back on my bike. what the heck, I know I put it together right... I am a pro.. I do this stuff all the time.... run it. it lasted maybe a week and started weeping (base gasket). I also have a friend with a comtec leaker... same story, done about the same time. just luck of the draw? maybe they had a bad parts run? anyway there was a rash of them at the time... maybe now it's fixed? (this was about 4 years ago) whatever, someone screws me I am wary
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:44 AM   #45
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re-sleeving is not required. thats a lot of carbon.... rings are prolly shot. it is also possible the bore it out of round and/or over size as well. you can measure it & see. just using new rings might fix it but I have doubt. when the rings wear, it also wears the piston grooves. it might fix it for a while, but will be a burner again pretty soon. to be sure of a good fix that will give the bike years of life I would go to the proven aftermarket parts rather than a Kawi oversize piston.

either the 685 or 688 will work fine as long as the bore job is done by someone that knows how to do it. going to the 685 leaves room in the future to up to the 688 if needed (like 40k miles down the road).

the bottom end is all roller bearings... they need very little oil. look the big end of the connecting rod over very carefully... if it has any "blue" from heating then it's no good & not worth messing with. if it looks normal I wouldn't worry.

yes, clean the oil pick up screen. take the oil pump apart & check it close.

if the intake valves are bent, the ex valves were probably closed & are OK. klr valves can make a lot of miles

I have rescued a few that ran low on oil & had success. flush everything with kerosene, install good parts & ride on.

don't use the Comtech gaskets, sometimes they leak... the Kawi ones work
Good info with the 685 now and 688 later. What do you guys recommend for boring out the block from your experience? Should I budget shipping to someone who has done this before, or would a decent shop locally be able to bore it out? Currently working in Omaha if anybody locally has a shop recommendation. How much should I budget for having it bored?

Also, good info on the bottom end with the roller bearings. Will take a close look at the connecting rod.

Should I plan on replacing the oil screen, or just clean it out?

With flushing the engine out with kerosene, is there any method to the madness, or just dump the kerosene in the top of the block with the piston out and let it all flow out the oil drain and then let air out for 24 hrs? 1 gallon of kerosene? Where can I buy some?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boon Booni View Post
How low? Still in the sight glass but low, or have to lean the bike to see it in the sight glass, or I drained it and less than a liter came out?
*Said with head hanging low * Could barely see the oil in the sight glass when leaning bike heavily. Rode a lot of highway around the time of the problem, which was uncharacteristic. Have always taken care of my rides and understood the importance of maintaining oil, but I guess you don’t *truly* understand until you run an engine dry. Going to glean a lesson learned from this one and move on with eagle-eyes on oil levels every time I take a rest.

advhound screwed with this post 04-02-2013 at 06:54 AM Reason: typo
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