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Old 03-25-2013, 01:21 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Andylaser View Post
I work for Garmin and have been beta testing the Nav V for the past month.
I can guarantee you it isn't based on the Montana.

Did you guys fix the Bluetooth stereo music (A2DP) quality? I paid $1000 for this thing (Nav IV) based on the idea that I'd be able to listen to music through my helmet. Apparently the BT chip is grossly under-spec'ed for A2DP which unsurprisingly results in in extremely poor quality for music. Music requires a substantially higher bitrate than the phone/voice-guidance features. Currently have to use my cell phone for music listening purposes, the Nav IV is "unlistenable".

I have tested this with three Nav IVs and a 660 with eight different bluetooth headsets, all sound horrid. Most noticeable on the higher frequency sounds where digital over-compression is the most catastrophic, but it does a fine job of ruining the other frequencies as well.

My tested headsets include several Sena SMH-10s, Cardo Scala Rider G4, Cardo SRC system for Schuberth C3, Motorola S9-HD, Sony MW600. Navigator IV/Zumo 660 have been tested with every firmware version to current (4.80). I think I tried versions as low as 3.50. (I tried very, very, hard to correct this problem, your technical support had no answers). I have taken music from CD and sampled it with multiple MP3 encoders at bitrates ranging from 128kbps to 320kbps, have tried VBR and fixed bitrates on the music.

Please simply fit a bluetooth chip comparable to that found in any given modern smartphone to correct this problem. I do software development for mobile phones, and have never seen Bluetooth quality anywhere close to this bad on any of the dozens of phones I've tested my software on. This includes the cheap $100 pay-as-you-go items.
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Old 03-25-2013, 01:27 PM   #62
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By the time Garmin gets this right you will be so old your hearing will be gone anyway, but thanks for giving this purported beta tester a dose of crap for us music lovers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by /dev/null View Post
Did you guys fix the Bluetooth stereo music (A2DP) quality? I paid $1000 for this thing (Nav IV) based on the idea that I'd be able to listen to music through my helmet. Apparently the BT chip is grossly under-spec'ed for A2DP which unsurprisingly results in in extremely poor quality for music. Music requires a substantially higher bitrate than the phone/voice-guidance features. Currently have to use my cell phone for music listening purposes, the Nav IV is "unlistenable".

I have tested this with three Nav IVs and a 660 with eight different bluetooth headsets, all sound horrid. Most noticeable on the higher frequency sounds where digital over-compression is the most catastrophic, but it does a fine job of ruining the other frequencies as well.

My tested headsets include several Sena SMH-10s, Cardo Scala Rider G4, Cardo SRC system for Schuberth C3, Motorola S9-HD, Sony MW600. Navigator IV/Zumo 660 have been tested with every firmware version to current (4.80). I think I tried versions as low as 3.50. (I tried very, very, hard to correct this problem, your technical support had no answers). I have taken music from CD and sampled it with multiple MP3 encoders at bitrates ranging from 128kbps to 320kbps, have tried VBR and fixed bitrates on the music.

Please simply fit a bluetooth chip comparable to that found in any given modern smartphone to correct this problem. I do software development for mobile phones, and have never seen Bluetooth quality anywhere close to this bad on any of the dozens of phones I've tested my software on. This includes the cheap $100 pay-as-you-go items.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:30 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by /dev/null View Post
Did you guys fix the Bluetooth stereo music (A2DP) quality? I paid $1000 for this thing (Nav IV) based on the idea that I'd be able to listen to music through my helmet. Apparently the BT chip is grossly under-spec'ed for A2DP which unsurprisingly results in in extremely poor quality for music. Music requires a substantially higher bitrate than the phone/voice-guidance features. Currently have to use my cell phone for music listening purposes, the Nav IV is "unlistenable". .
I agree, as a music lover, I hate crap sound. An extra $ or 2 would make a good difference speccing a better chip. Trying to convince this to bean counters though is a different story.
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Old 03-26-2013, 11:38 AM   #64
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Yep, went hard wired and haven't looked back.
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Old 03-26-2013, 01:47 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andylaser View Post
I agree, as a music lover, I hate crap sound. An extra $ or 2 would make a good difference speccing a better chip. Trying to convince this to bean counters though is a different story.
Bean counting kills good companies, and it's pretty much killed Garmin for me. This product doesn't do what it says on the tin, and it costs a premium price. I get a lot of comments along the lines of "wow that's a nice GPS on that thing" at which point I inform the comment-giver that it's actually a giant overpriced turd and never to buy one.

The Garmin customer support guy didn't help when he suggested "well it's not really designed to do that." At which point I asked, "well then, why did you put it on the box", at which point he told me he didn't believe me and actually put me on hold to go find a box to prove I was lying. "Oh well I guess the box does say that...but the quality is just fine."

Ticked off vocal a-holes like me undo all the savings the bean counters generate, and then some.
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Old 03-26-2013, 02:59 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by /dev/null View Post
Ticked off vocal a-holes like me undo all the savings the bean counters generate, and then some.
Good man.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:11 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by /dev/null View Post
Bean counting kills good companies, and it's pretty much killed Garmin for me. This product doesn't do what it says on the tin, and it costs a premium price. I get a lot of comments along the lines of "wow that's a nice GPS on that thing" at which point I inform the comment-giver that it's actually a giant overpriced turd and never to buy one.

The Garmin customer support guy didn't help when he suggested "well it's not really designed to do that." At which point I asked, "well then, why did you put it on the box", at which point he told me he didn't believe me and actually put me on hold to go find a box to prove I was lying. "Oh well I guess the box does say that...but the quality is just fine."

Ticked off vocal a-holes like me undo all the savings the bean counters generate, and then some.
I don't disagree with you that the thing should do what it claims to do, but I'm always a bit skeptical about companies delivering value outside their area of core competency.

Garmin is a GPS company. As such, they make pretty decent GPS's, by and large. They just also happen to make pretty shitty music players and phone interfaces. This is why I use my iPhone for music and phone calls, and rely on my (relatively) cheap Garmin 220 for GPS (and only GPS).

I can call up Siri through my Sena headset and make/receive calls, play music, etc. The sound quality is light years better, and I don't have to mess with copying all my music over to my GPS when I already have it all on my phone.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:09 PM   #68
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+1 I don't and have never used any audio output from my GPS. I do use my Sena to answer and make voice-dialed calls through my Android phone and use my iPod Touch to play/listen to music.

Of course, it doesn't help that my Zumo 660 has a known problem with its Bluetooth implementation (besides crappy audio fidelity) that makes it problematic to really use it paired with my phone and the Sena paired to it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:35 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by /dev/null View Post
Did you guys fix the Bluetooth stereo music (A2DP) quality? I paid $1000 for this thing (Nav IV) based on the idea that I'd be able to listen to music through my helmet. Apparently the BT chip is grossly under-spec'ed for A2DP which unsurprisingly results in in extremely poor quality for music. Music requires a substantially higher bitrate than the phone/voice-guidance features. Currently have to use my cell phone for music listening purposes, the Nav IV is "unlistenable".
It may not even be the chip. When Bluetooth devices connect, they negotiate the bitrate. Often the low bitrate is intentionally hard coded to improve reliability of the connection. A simple software change could improve the quality. The mp3 player is so inconvenient I'd use my phone anyway. For example, if I have more than one album by the same artist, Zumo wouldn't play the albums in sequence, but arranges songs from all albums in the alphabet order.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Andylaser View Post
I work for Garmin and have been beta testing the Nav V for the past month.
I hope you don't base the new Nav 5 off of the 665. It's got some really bad reviews on amazon. Or at least fix the problems for the BMW version so it's worth the extra cost!
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:17 PM   #71
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I hope you don't base the new Nav 5 off of the 665. It's got some really bad reviews on amazon. Or at least fix the problems for the BMW version so it's worth the extra cost!
Many of the neg reviews are a couple years old. The most frequent con was shutting down unexpectedly. Mine did that 2 years ago, but updates soon after fixed it. It's been fine since then...including the weather.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:29 PM   #72
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It may not even be the chip. When Bluetooth devices connect, they negotiate the bitrate. Often the low bitrate is intentionally hard coded to improve reliability of the connection. A simple software change could improve the quality. The mp3 player is so inconvenient I'd use my phone anyway. For example, if I have more than one album by the same artist, Zumo wouldn't play the albums in sequence, but arranges songs from all albums in the alphabet order.
I'm no expert, but, I thought the poor audio quality was due to the GPS device connecting using the handset or headset audio profile instead of the higher quality A2DP stereo profile. More of a software issue than chip selection? In any case the 660 Bluetooth does have some issues. Sounds like there are some new devices on the way. There definitely is room for improvement!
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:03 PM   #73
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+1. Nav IV w/o an input for the XM radio antenna is a deal killer for me.

I'm testing riding a WC GS this next Wed and if I decide to upgrade and go with the Premium pkg w/GPS prep I might get a Garmin 665, sell my Zumo 550 and transfer my XM antenna over to it. If that would work, that is.
Sooo, you bought the WC GS. What have you done for a GPS?
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:12 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Callisto224 View Post
I hope you don't base the new Nav 5 off of the 665. It's got some really bad reviews on amazon. Or at least fix the problems for the BMW version so it's worth the extra cost!
The other thing about reviews, you have to assess the credibility of the reviewer. This is not too hard to do if you read between the lines. And also the score given a product varies widely between reviewers who are looking at the same feature.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:28 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Callisto224 View Post
I hope you don't base the new Nav 5 off of the 665. It's got some really bad reviews on amazon. Or at least fix the problems for the BMW version so it's worth the extra cost!
I was about to say that this wouldn't make any sense because the 665 is now ~3 years old, so why would BMW base their new GPS off a 3 year old Garmin product, unless Garmin has shut off all R&D to motorcycle GPS's and has no intention of introducing a replacement to the 665 any time soon.

Then I realized that the GPS cradle on the new WC GS is still the Nav IV/Zumo 660. I can't imagine that BMW would re-engineer a GPS cradle as extensively as they did for the WC GS if they knew something completely different was on the horizon... so perhaps the Nav V will indeed be the same form factor as the Nav IV with only minor incremental improvements.
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