ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-25-2013, 11:36 PM   #526
WildAnCrazymtl
Beastly Adventurer
 
WildAnCrazymtl's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Peoples Republik of Kanada, Québec province!
Oddometer: 6,035
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
Seems to me it's entirely valid to ask whether or not Webber will feel compelled to help Vettel this season.

AFAIK, he's on a one-year deal. I would think that Red Bull are unlikely to replace him mid-season. No matter what, he probably won't be re-signed next season.

So really, he doesn't have a lot to lose by retaliating against Vettel, does he?
He has never helped in the past, hanging back and letting Hamilton and others maul him from lap one.

IMHO Marco can turn a one year deal into... Marc meet the new driver who is replacing you! Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
__________________
"Work negatively inpacts my free time !" Me.
"Ride it like you stole it, then do the same to me ! " Her.
"A good thing in a bad place, is still a good thing ! " Us.

____________
R1200GS 09
DRZ400 03
WildAnCrazymtl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 03:23 AM   #527
overlandr
Temporal Shifter
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: Sydney
Oddometer: 5,790
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
AFAIK, he's on a one-year deal. I would think that Red Bull are unlikely to replace him mid-season. No matter what, he probably won't be re-signed next season.

So really, he doesn't have a lot to lose by retaliating against Vettel, does he?
Except his self respect. He was the guy in charge of the Drivers assoc AFAIR so carries big respect from other drivers. He's got a reputation as a clean driver. When its all over, what's left except the way you played the game. Winning clean is all that matters. Wasn't there a cyclist some time ago that was under the spotlight?!

Look at MS's historical legacy now - blackened with his outrageous moves on the track which were motivated by a win at all cost mentality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doyle View Post
The history books remember who won. Period. There is no category for the nicest 2nd place driver.
History also recalls the reputation of a driver and whether he was sportsmanlike or whether he often chose the 'alternative option'.


Quote from John Watson Ex-F1 driver.
""The only purposeful way to bring him to book is to say: 'You will stand out one race'," Watson told BBC Radio 4. "I know that if other drivers in other teams disobeyed a team order they would be suspended or even fired.

"If Christian Horner doesn't reassert his authority in the team – because he has been totally subjugated by Sebastian Vettel – then his position in the team is not exactly the role it is designed to be," Watson said. "The only conclusion I can reach is that Vettel should be suspended for the next grand prix.

"You can't take the points away from him and give them to Mark Webber – that's now history and Sebastian has the benefit of those seven additional points. You can't really fine him, it is almost irrelevant to fine him, so the only purposeful way to bring him to book is to say: 'You will stand out one race'.""

overlandr screwed with this post 03-26-2013 at 05:32 AM
overlandr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 05:26 AM   #528
g®eg OP
Canadian living in exile
 
g®eg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,080
the smiling assassin

the telling line is the last one...

Quote:
I only wish he’d been man enough to admit it.
__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.
g®eg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 05:38 AM   #529
g®eg OP
Canadian living in exile
 
g®eg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,080
Ecclestone hits out at Red Bull's team orders

The Telegraph
__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.
g®eg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 06:40 AM   #530
Paebr332
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Oddometer: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildAnCrazymtl View Post
As for what Alonso did last year in the Ferrari... He did not win, even I can do that
Ferrari had nowhere near the car Red bull had last season and Romain Grosjean at Belgium played a key role in why Alonso did not win the WDC.

So how many F1 victories and world championships do you have? I am pretty certain Alonso has you beat on both counts. In fact, I bet he has more podium finishes this season than you have in your entire "career."

Stupid argument is stupid.

Paebr332 screwed with this post 03-26-2013 at 09:53 AM
Paebr332 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 06:50 AM   #531
HarveyMushman
commutingmysentence
 
HarveyMushman's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Oddometer: 16,169
So Vettel's latest twat move has everyone at a froth. Drama! Intrigue! Whatever will be done?! I'm just tingling with excitement!

Of interest to no one, apparently, is the fact that the top 4 cars were coasting for the second half of the "race" and an actual on-track competition was deemed by two team managers to run counter to business considerations. How exciting.
__________________
Tim

photo galleries
HarveyMushman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 07:07 AM   #532
ricmachado
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Canyon, TX
Oddometer: 284
Let's debate something better than Vettel x Webber.

How about Force India pit stop.

Does it take that muich to change the front tire, they guys F*&$ Up both drivers race
ricmachado is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 07:10 AM   #533
g®eg OP
Canadian living in exile
 
g®eg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricmachado View Post
Let's debate something better than Vettel x Webber.

How about Force India pit stop.

Does it take that muich to change the front tire, they guys F*&$ Up both drivers race
bad nuts...

Malaysian Grand Prix: Faulty wheel nuts spoil Force India's race
Both Paul di Resta and Adrian Sutil struggled with their pit stops before retiring on lap 24 and 29, respectively.

Sepang: The 2013 Formula 1 Malaysian Grand Prix turned out to be a forgettable experience for Sahara Force India whose drivers had to retire mid-way through the race Sunday owing to faulty wheel nuts.

The eventful 58 laps saw Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel defy team orders to win his first race of the season ahead of teammate Mark Webber. Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg were also involved in an intra-team battle which ended with the former McLaren driver holding on to the third spot.

For Force India, Sunday marked the end to a weekend when they failed to capitalise on the promise shown during the practice sessions and qualifying.

Both Paul di Resta and Adrian Sutil struggled with their pit stops before retiring on lap 24 and 29, respectively.

The trouble started when di Resta and Sutil were called simultaneously for the first pit stop as the Scot waited for his turn. The problem with the wheel nuts persisted for the their next two stops before the team decided call the cars back in the garage.

""An early end to a race that promised so much for us. Both cars had the same problem with the wheel nuts and it cost us a lot of time in the pits. We're not sure exactly what happened yet so the team stopped the cars to make sure we understand the issue," said Sutil.

Di Resta said: "We saw an issue at Adrian's first pit stop when I was sat behind him, which cost me about 15 seconds, and then I had the same issue with the wheel nut at my second pit stop. As a precaution the team chose to retire the car. We will go away, take this on the chin, and come back fighting in China."

A double retirement was the first one for Force India since Japan 2010.

The Silverstone-based team made their best ever start to a season in Australia where Sutil and di Resta finished seventh and eighth.

They remain in fifth in the team standings with 10 points.
__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.
g®eg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 07:32 AM   #534
O.C.F.RIDER
Loose nut behind h/bars
 
O.C.F.RIDER's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Hewitt,New Jerseystan, OBAMANATION
Oddometer: 4,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxwax View Post

If both Red Bulls had been allowed to race full out, I see no reason why Webber wouldn't have maintained his edge.
Except for the fact that Seb may, just may, be a better driver.
Oh, I guess he cheated his way to the 3-in-a-row previous WDC's.
And let's count Whubbah's WDC's.


Vettel for 4-in-a-row!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd be quite happy with Alonso throwing a wrench in the 4-in-a-row thing though.

Chris

__________________
http://www.theshining.info/
KTM 950 Adv. "S"...'06 KTM 525 EXC...
'76 MV Agusta 750 America S...'84 Honda VF1000...
'75 Kawi 900 Z1...'90 Kawi ZX11...'03 Kawi ZRX 1200...'01 VOR 400E
O.C.F.RIDER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 07:52 AM   #535
RedRocket
Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs
 
RedRocket's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2003
Location: SoCal
Oddometer: 19,140
Another good article

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...e-team-spirit/


Rubens Barrichello’s daughter once asked him why he looked so sad on the podium; to make his children as well as the tifosi feel better about Ferrari’s relentless approach to team orders, he decided to make sure he always smiled from then on. The contrast between the crinkled mouth and unsmiling eyes he displayed in the podiums after that makes for an interesting study in human dynamics. How can a man feel so conflicted about standing on the most important podium in the racing world, week in and week out?

At the end of the Malaysian Grand Prix yesterday, however, there were no smiling faces at all.


It was a day of team decisions and team orders. Fernando Alonso bashed his front wing in at the start and should have headed directly in for another, but with a drying track and the unlovable prospect of two pitstops within a few laps, he decided to stay out. Or perhaps the team decided. Ferrari’s pit crew were reportedly out and ready with a new nose when Alonso went by. Was that simple insurance? Or did the man himself decide to chance another lap? Ferrari’s official statement assigns responsibility for the decision to the team, but they would say that, wouldn’t they? Surely Alonso will miss these points later on in the season.

With Fernando off-track and Massa looking unlikely to challenge for the podium, it became a tale of two teams. First, the Mercedes team of Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. Few people have been paid as much to accomplish as little as Mr. Rosberg has in Formula One; during his years with Michael Schumacher he usually outqualified the old man but he could also be counted on to fall back during the start while the seven-time world champion pushed forward. He also frequently yielded to his brasher, braver former GP2 competitor Lewis Hamilton on-track in a fashion that can best be described as “wince-inducing”.

With Hamilton as his teammate, however, Rosberg appears to be slightly less meek about the whole thing. Near the end of the race, he and Hamilton raced for position and when Ross Brawn, the team principal, ordered them into line to finish the race, Rosberg complained over the radio in a manner that was clearly meant to be heard around the world — and was. “I could go so much faster,” he whined, “if he would get out of the way.”

“Lewis is also under control,” Brawn replied. In other words: Stop kidding yourself. Hamilton’s conserving fuel and in a straight fight he’d pull your panties off the same way he’s been doing it for over half a decade now. Mr. Hamilton, meanwhile, provided a moment of amusement when he inadvertently pitted at the McLaren garage for tires. The Woking crew, perhaps still feeling a little bitter about the way Hamilton has left the team for more money after being basically a charity project for Ron Dennis in his youth, waved him out and over to his new home. Still, Lewis looked sad on the podium, and in the after-race press statement indicated that Rosberg deserved the position. Gracious, but unnecessary. Only a blind man without access to Braille reports of the past five seasons could possibly think Rosberg will seriously contend against his teammate in 2013 for anything other than endorsement contracts. As much as I despise Lewis Hamilton as a human being, his talent exceeds Nico’s by an order of magnitude.

Two steps up the podium from Hamilton stood the triple world champion himself, young Sebastian Vettel. Your humble author had the pleasure of watching Vettel’s F1 debut at the USGP years ago and was impressed then and now. Yes, Sebastian has usually had the best car; no, it hasn’t been easy to put that best car on top three years running. At an age where most young men are incapable of completing college homework assignments on time or getting their Civics cleaned up in time for an import-drag-race event, Sebastian has driven at the highest level possible with astounding consistency. And if you think the car wins races by itself, an examination of Mark Webber’s record shows that it doesn’t.

That was surely on Vettel’s mind as the team orders came through to him at the final round of pitstops. Dial back the engines, conserve fuel, “multi21″ (which apparently means that the #2 driver may stay in front of the #1 driver). Your humble author does not pretend to have a sliver of Vettel’s talent, but as someone who possesses a hotter-than-average racing temperament I would be more than happy to suggest the German’s interior monologue:

Seven points. Seven points. They want me to hold station and give this idiot seven points. The championship is often won and lost on less, and they want me to circle around behind this half-ass, this indifferent starter, this whiner, this never-was. Oh, fuck that twice.

DRIVE’s Leo Parente, no stranger to competing at the sharp end of an open-wheel series himself, has said, “If you hate Seb for this, you hate a real racer.” I’m inclined to agree. Nominally speaking, it would have been the reasonable, team-oriented, responsible thing to do to follow Webber home. As a racer myself, I have to agree with Vettel. Mr. Webber will never win the world championship. He’s incapable of driving at the level required on a consistent basis. His starts are pathetic. He is difficult to pass, but he’s not a great passer. Most importantly, he fails again and again at the fundamental F1 skill of driving to plan with metronomic perfection for an entire stint. I’d love to ride some mountain bikes with Mark Webber, I admire him as an individual, I think that of the entire grid he’s probably one of the so-called best blokes out there, but he cannot and will not get the job done and in that situation TAKE THE SEVEN POINTS AWAY FROM HIM NOW.

The failing wasn’t Sebastian’s, it was Christian Horner’s for not moving the guy who cannot win the championship out of the way of the guy who can. That’s the bottom line. Teamwork wins championships, and there was a deficiency of teamwork at the Red Bull garage. Ross Brawn kept Rosberg behind Hamilton because Rosberg isn’t a winner and Hamilton is. Mr. Horner should learn from his elders in this case. Luckily for him and for the possibilities of a fourth world championship, Sebastian Vettel did what was necessary.
RedRocket is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 08:01 AM   #536
g®eg OP
Canadian living in exile
 
g®eg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRocket View Post

very good.

I still say that Vettel should have manned up. Instead of saying "gee sorry I fucked up" which was a bald-faced lie as he clearly did as he intended, he should have said "I came to race, I want to win a fourth championship, and I disagree w/ my team principal". end of story.
__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.
g®eg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 09:27 AM   #537
doyle
RallyRaidReview-ing
 
doyle's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Off Piste
Oddometer: 22,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlandr View Post
History also recalls the reputation of a driver and whether he was sportsmanlike or whether he often chose the 'alternative option'.


Quote from John Watson Ex-F1 driver.
""The only purposeful way to bring him to book is to say: 'You will stand out one race'," Watson told BBC Radio 4. "I know that if other drivers in other teams disobeyed a team order they would be suspended or even fired.

"If Christian Horner doesn't reassert his authority in the team – because he has been totally subjugated by Sebastian Vettel – then his position in the team is not exactly the role it is designed to be," Watson said. "The only conclusion I can reach is that Vettel should be suspended for the next grand prix.

"You can't take the points away from him and give them to Mark Webber – that's now history and Sebastian has the benefit of those seven additional points. You can't really fine him, it is almost irrelevant to fine him, so the only purposeful way to bring him to book is to say: 'You will stand out one race'.""
But time heals all wounds and seldom do stats reflect upon the social aspects of the driver.

As far as Watson goes, he must be dreaming. He's not incorrect that Horner needs to reassert his leadership, but why jeopardize a constructor's championship to penalize your driver for winning the race. Clearly no fill in driver will perform like Vettel. Having your drivers battling over 1st and 2nd place is a problem 10 other teams wish they were dealing with right now.
__________________
Got Smugmug? Use code HWkDUhHwGv5Tc for a discount.

RallyRaidReview - @RallyRaidReview
doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #538
g®eg OP
Canadian living in exile
 
g®eg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 41.655984,-71.302657
Oddometer: 6,080
anyone who thinks Vettel will be sat down or otherwise publicly reprimanded is living in cloud-cuckoo land...
it's all about the constructors championship full stop.

It's a shame for Mark, but that's the way it goes. He must have known, in his heart of hearts, that this would happen.
Nice guys finish on the podium, just not the first step.
__________________
Greg
Europe 2013 Europe 2012 Europe 2011 England 2010 Gaspe PQ 2008 Nova Scotia 2007

Try to see the world beyond your front door.
g®eg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 09:52 AM   #539
Paebr332
Studly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Shippensburg, PA
Oddometer: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by g®eg View Post
anyone who thinks Vettel will be sat down or otherwise publicly reprimanded is living in cloud-cuckoo land...
it's all about the constructors championship full stop.

It's a shame for Mark, but that's the way it goes. He must have known, in his heart of hearts, that this would happen.
Nice guys finish on the podium, just not the first step.
If Webber gets pissed off enough he can cost them the constructor's title.
Paebr332 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2013, 09:55 AM   #540
mdubya
Right Brigade
 
mdubya's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: western, MD
Oddometer: 7,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paebr332 View Post
If Webber gets pissed off enough he can cost them the constructor's title.
If he does anything like that, his car will have electrical gremlins and he will soon be out of a ride.
__________________
+0
mdubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014