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Old 03-29-2013, 07:46 AM   #616
WildAnCrazymtl
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Originally Posted by HarveyMushman View Post
Is this true, or just a grammatical train wreck? Has Webber disobeyed orders to pass a cruising Vettel?
He has disobeyed orders in the past in Turkey 2010, Silverstone 2011 and in Brazil 2012 to name a few...

Mark has never really passed Vettel in a similar situation but has tried. It's one of those things... Vettel gets around mark and makes it look easy-ish. Mark is a nice guy but to drive around Vettel that is something else.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:37 AM   #617
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Mark is a nice guy but to drive around Vettel that is something else.
The similarities between Vettel and MS in that regard are uncanny.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:56 AM   #618
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+1

I was wondering when Vettel would finally erase all doubt that's he a complete dick, and he did so in grand fashion in Maylasia.

I think Webber has done a pretty good job of controlling himself in the face of Vettel's childish bullshit, and the way the team has coddled the petulant little twat over the past two seasons. Vettel may be a great talent, but I think he lost the little respect he had remaining as an honorable sportsman.

I've hated the guy with a passion ever since he pulled that bullshit on the podium at Abu Dhabi with David Couthard.




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Why do you think it was sent in code?


I'm glad we're all agreed that he's indeed a dick. Truly a dick.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:27 PM   #619
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What a dishrag statement by Horner. He essentially gives Vettel the pass that Webber said he would get, green lights disobeying team orders where they conflict with driver's best interests, and undermines his own management in the team. While he may be right in that their highly competitive nature can cloud their team thinking, what a poor management statement to make.

There you go Mark Webber, your team manager is essentially calling you a submissive douche bag for not having turned the wick back up and fought back to pass Vettel for the remaining laps.
I don't make much of it. They're spanking him behind the scenes and praising him to the media. Good people management, seems to me. I would think it was humiliating for Vettel to be forced to apologize to the entire team in person. That's a better punishment than a fine. They were never going to suspend him. This is probably he best they can do, given the circumstances.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:35 PM   #620
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That is what all the other teams wish for!?!
If you're saying that every other team would want Vettel, that's an interesting proposition. I wonder?

I don't think think Mercedes would want him. I don't see that he's a huge step up from Rosberg, and he's not as good as Hamilton.

Ferrari have basically decided they don't want him. Not because he isn't better than Massa, but because they believe in a firm 1-2 and they don't have room for two prima donnas.

McLaren might take him. But coddled fair-haired little boy Sebastian's head might explode when he finds out that McLaren really mean it when they say both drivers are treated equally. Alonso didn't handle it well and I doubt Vettel would, not after all the pampering and diaper-changing that Red Bull and Helmut Marko have given him.

So now we're sliding pretty far down the grid. Who am I leaving out? Lotus? They might go for it, if money weren't an issue. Williams? I'd love to see that. Frank Williams treats drivers only a little better than Toro Rosso. Force India? Unaffordable.

So really, I would think his options are surprisingly limited.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:41 PM   #621
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...
Your opinions are so clouded by your personal distaste for Vettel that they hold no weight.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:10 PM   #622
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Your opinions are so clouded by your personal man-crush on Vettel that they hold no weight.


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Old 03-29-2013, 01:22 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Josephvman View Post
+1

I was wondering when Vettel would finally erase all doubt that's he a complete dick, and he did so in grand fashion in Maylasia.

I think Webber has done a pretty good job of controlling himself in the face of Vettel's childish bullshit, and the way the team has coddled the petulant little twat over the past two seasons. Vettel may be a great talent, but I think he lost the little respect he had remaining as an honorable sportsman.

I've hated the guy with a passion ever since he pulled that bullshit on the podium at Abu Dhabi with David Couthard.
Hate is such a terrible word, try dislike it sounds much better. DC is a bit of a prick/cry baby as well and you don't have to look back to far to remember his antics
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:27 PM   #624
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
If you're saying that every other team would want Vettel, that's an interesting proposition. I wonder?

I don't think think Mercedes would want him. I don't see that he's a huge step up from Rosberg, and he's not as good as Hamilton.

So really, I would think his options are surprisingly limited.
Are you for real man, A 3 time world champion just isn't because he is in the best car and only one of those years was out right domination of the field the rest he fought for. You can't say the same about Webber in the same equipment
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:57 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by wxwax View Post
I don't make much of it. They're spanking him behind the scenes and praising him to the media. Good people management, seems to me. I would think it was humiliating for Vettel to be forced to apologize to the entire team in person. That's a better punishment than a fine. They were never going to suspend him. This is probably he best they can do, given the circumstances.
Agreed, however they must be carefull, you don't want to make Seb second guess himself on race day because everyone knows at the end of the day Webber can't get the job done like Seb has done so in the past.

Seb is the futur and Webber is there to finish second to get CWC points... I hope Marco has made that clear because Horner seems unable. Being the axe man can be a bitch if you have a conscience...
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:59 PM   #626
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Are you for real man, A 3 time world champion just isn't because he is in the best car and only one of those years was out right domination of the field the rest he fought for. You can't say the same about Webber in the same equipment
+1

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Old 03-29-2013, 03:35 PM   #627
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Are you for real man, A 3 time world champion just isn't because he is in the best car and only one of those years was out right domination of the field the rest he fought for. You can't say the same about Webber in the same equipment
Do you believe, honestly, that Vettel is more talented or equal in a car than Alanso? Vettel has never to date had a crap handling car. Alanso has, and has been competitive.

Sorry, I chalk a lot (most) of Vettel's success to the team/designer/car, not his talent.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:48 PM   #628
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Do you believe, honestly, that Vettel is more talented or equal in a car than Alanso? Vettel has never to date had a crap handling car. Alanso has, and has been competitive.

Sorry, I chalk a lot (most) of Vettel's success to the team/designer/car, not his talent.
Read the post, the comparison was between Rosberg and Hamilton.
Alonso is the best driver out there now and I believe Vettel is as good a driver but yes needs to mature a bit. My point was simple he is 3 times a world champion, if it was that easy they all would be. Also go back to 08' with STR Ferrari, put it on the top step of the podium remember, Italian GP at what 20 years old, never had a bad car huh, he beat all his teamates with confidence.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:50 PM   #629
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Are you for real man, A 3 time world champion just isn't because he is in the best car and only one of those years was out right domination of the field the rest he fought for. You can't say the same about Webber in the same equipment
Adrian Newey.

He's the one guy on that team who is irreplaceable. All the rest are interchangeable parts, all of them. Well, except for the guy with the money, of course.

Seriously, Red Bull have devised an almost unbeatable strategy/car combination. The key is to be at the front. Qualifying is vital. Vettel, to his credit, is a very, very good driver when the track is empty. Put him deeper in the field and he and his car are usually less impressive.

The brains of the operation is Newey. He consistently outsmarts (and out-cheats) the opposition. His cars deliver the fastest lap times thanks to the grip he finds in fast and medium corners. His lack of top end speed doesn't matter, as long as his cars are at the front. Which, thanks to him, they usually are.

No, Weber isn't Vettel's equal. That hardly makes Vettel the best in F1, though. Remember the first half of last season, when Webber's results were roughly equal to Vettel's? It was written that the car was favoring Webber's driving style.

When faced with a choice, Red Bull tailored their car to Vettel's driving style last season. That was the right thing to do. One assumes they always try to do so. Vettel finished the season with an emphatic bang, a dramatic change in form.
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Old 03-29-2013, 04:56 PM   #630
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Also go back to 08' with STR Ferrari, put it on the top step of the podium remember, Italian GP at what 20 years old, never had a bad car huh, he beat all his teamates with confidence.
Good point. An excellent season for Vettel.
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