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Old 03-31-2013, 01:46 PM   #781
supershaft
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BMW has a special tool that works something along those lines. I have never used one for the regular type working fine or using a pneumatic type. If you keep the regular type, whether they are mechanical or pneumatic, out of the head while compressing the springs, they put NO stress on the head.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:19 AM   #782
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A much simpler tool is available.

[QUOTE=Plaka;21060925]I have a standard screw type valve spring compressor. it'ss work on the airhead head but it's a major pain. local auto places had nothing better. I noticed lornce made up a tool out of a big C-clamp but I've no clamp to spare, and no welder. So I made this up out of scraps.



"All thread[ed] rods are fastened in the engine stud holes. A steel tube held by nuts bridges them and makes the pivot. Two flat bar slabs pivot on the tube and press on the valve spring."




"Leverage is provided by a pry bar (or whatever). 12" to 14" is plenty. Note that if I made the flat bar pieces any longer they would hit the head. Should be shorter. nuts adjust the pivot tube up and down. Set it so the flat bars touch the inside *towards center of head) side of the valve spring caps. The when you push down the bars go flat on the caps. Wanna get fancy you could radius them. Surface where they contact the valve spring caps is smoothed to 220 grit and greased."


A lot of work, and just plain nutty, IMHO.

A regular C-clamp-type valve spring compressor works just fine, like this one from Mac Tools:



I think I paid about $50 in the 90's. A newer version is $98 from MAC, and probably available used for a lot less on ebay. It doesn't require that the cylinder head be fastened down, and doesn't damage the head in any way. A pencil magnet easily removes the keepers and retainers.


garthg screwed with this post 04-02-2013 at 06:21 AM Reason: missed words
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:24 AM   #783
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Valve Spring Compressor

$19 on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-Valve-Sp...adbcf4&vxp=mtr
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:30 AM   #784
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Pushrod tube pusher idea

[QUOTE=Plaka;21051937]This thing presses pushrod tubes into cylinders. There a number of methods for this, hammering, hammering using an axle as a mandrel, have a fancy jig for an arbor press, etc. I don't care for hammering and prefer a smooth pressing motion. My press is too small and I don't have tooling for it. So I made this thing out of bits and pieces I had around. tool in use:



The pressing stack:




This makes a lot more sense than your valve spring compressor idea.

How do you know when to stop pushing the tube in? Are you using new tubes, or just cleaning and painting the old ones? Do you heat the cylinder before pushing?


garthg screwed with this post 04-02-2013 at 06:31 AM Reason: Add additional question.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:25 AM   #785
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[QUOTE=garthg;21089662]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
I have a standard screw type valve spring compressor. it'ss work on the airhead head but it's a major pain. local auto places had nothing better. I noticed lornce made up a tool out of a big C-clamp but I've no clamp to spare, and no welder. So I made this up out of scraps.



"All thread[ed] rods are fastened in the engine stud holes. A steel tube held by nuts bridges them and makes the pivot. Two flat bar slabs pivot on the tube and press on the valve spring."




"Leverage is provided by a pry bar (or whatever). 12" to 14" is plenty. Note that if I made the flat bar pieces any longer they would hit the head. Should be shorter. nuts adjust the pivot tube up and down. Set it so the flat bars touch the inside *towards center of head) side of the valve spring caps. The when you push down the bars go flat on the caps. Wanna get fancy you could radius them. Surface where they contact the valve spring caps is smoothed to 220 grit and greased."


A lot of work, and just plain nutty, IMHO.

A regular C-clamp-type valve spring compressor works just fine, like this one from Mac Tools:



I think I paid about $50 in the 90's. A newer version is $98 from MAC, and probably available used for a lot less on ebay. It doesn't require that the cylinder head be fastened down, and doesn't damage the head in any way. A pencil magnet easily removes the keepers and retainers.

$98 more than I got. Andhardly worth the money if you only use it every 10 years. If I'm going to buy more tools there are plenty of higher priorities. Not to mention I needed one now, not when I can find a used one on fleabay (and a hassle to buy stuff there not to mention dubious sellers) Mine doesn't damage the head (or anything else), cost nothing, works good. Fastening the head to the bench with a clamp is trivial.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:31 AM   #786
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Valve Spring Compressor

Plaka:

Never had a problem on ebay. Just got a Snap On hex socket, like new, for half of list, shipped in 2 days from a guy in Colorado. Bought from him before.

If one were to go out an buy the threaded rod, steel, etc. to make your device, it would be more than the $19 for which several compressors are available on ebay.

Having the right tool also makes the job easier and faster.
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Old 04-02-2013, 08:26 AM   #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garthg View Post
Plaka:

Never had a problem on ebay. Just got a Snap On hex socket, like new, for half of list, shipped in 2 days from a guy in Colorado. Bought from him before.

If one were to go out an buy the threaded rod, steel, etc. to make your device, it would be more than the $19 for which several compressors are available on ebay.

Having the right tool also makes the job easier and faster.
I have one of those Cheap azz compressors on Fleaby. Works, but not well. There's something they missed when they copied the classic compressor. I'm always afraid I'm going to lose a finger!

I'd like to have a pneumatic one, but I'd probably tear up a head with it

The MAC one for $98 I'm sure is fine.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:55 AM   #788
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BMW Valve Spring Compressor tool

Quote:
Originally Posted by supershaft View Post
BMW has a special tool that works something along those lines. I have never used one for the regular type working fine or using a pneumatic type. If you keep the regular type, whether they are mechanical or pneumatic, out of the head while compressing the springs, they put NO stress on the head.

This is the factory tool (I don't think I've ever seen one):

https://www.bmwmc.net/catalog/222.pdf

It's two pieces with a wooden stand to hold the head, and a lever arm to compress the spring and retainer.

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:06 PM   #789
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[QUOTE=garthg;21089716]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post

This makes a lot more sense than your valve spring compressor idea.

How do you know when to stop pushing the tube in? Are you using new tubes, or just cleaning and painting the old ones? Do you heat the cylinder before pushing?

I believe push rod tubes are set to a certain measurement or the collar is made flush with the base or are so high. So apparently the tubes could be set too deep or too shallow. They have to compress the seal. That is about the only thing they do.

I've seen discussions about doing this here and usually several theories on what measurement to use are presented.

If I was to try and do this I think I would try the hammer and drift method. And yes with heat, it is an Aluminum head and a Steel push rod tube.
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:10 PM   #790
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I was taught to make the washer level with the base gasket surface.
Yes, I realize that the washer is at an angle to said surface. Use the part closest to the barrel as a reference.
Lay a straight edge across the base gasket surface and it should just touch the washer/ring that compresses the tube seal.
Bear in mind that this needs to be adjusted if you use one of the compression reducing base gaskets.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:16 PM   #791
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What keeps the threaded rod from turning? I don't think pushing on the sealing surface is a good idea. I also don't like the idea of marring the gasket surface with those washers. I like to look at the tube nearing the head gasket surface for depth.

The valve spring compressor leaves very little room to gt the keepers out and especially back in. Remember that when it is being used a pry bar is right in your way. I would be careful clamping down the head to a bench with the head all cockeyed for the threaded bolt's nut's and washers on the gasket surface. Better make sure your bench is smooth and clean. I don't know, It seems like a good way to muff something up to me. I'll stick with my conventional clamp. You do have to be careful with those too!
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:44 AM   #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
Both the Haynes and Clymer manuals state that the bolts are the stretch type and must be replaced every time. The BMW factory manual says nothing but it also says to use the spring washers under the bolts. Insomuch as those spring washers (and the longer bolts used with them) have been superseded on all models (and you retrofit with the newer bolts on models w/ the spring washers) the BMW manual is out of date and cannot be relied on. I imagine the matter was covered in a service bulletin.


BTW, WTF is a "good grunt"?? Torque the damn things. If you can't do it right, (put a critical and difficult to inspect fastener on spec) don't do it.
A good grunt is an experienced, professional guess.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:02 AM   #793
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A good grunt is an experienced, professional guess.
Experienced professionals use torque wrenches.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:13 AM   #794
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Torque wrenches

There is an old video of British bikes being assembled in the factory, Triumph I think, and there was not a single torque wrench being used. I would think that anyone tightening the same bolts and nuts several times a day would get a good feel for how tight is correct though.

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Old 04-16-2013, 01:10 AM   #795
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When our car assembly industry fell over, a lot of equipment ended up in used machinery shops - lots of fixed size and fixed value torque wrenches...eg, a 12mm at 35mn.

In case you have missed all the Margaret Thatcher threads, the difference between British and Japanese factories was unions.
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