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Old 04-03-2013, 01:31 PM   #106
az45
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Will they be printing the road book for the roll charts? I'm thinking of going off the deep end and putting one in my car. There's no way I can flip pages, shift, eat tacos and hold my beer at the same time.

Any suggestions on the equipment?
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:52 PM   #107
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you will have to tape the sheets together then roll it into the roadbook reader which can be manual or motorized from 250.00 up.. check rally management services
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:31 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az45 View Post
Will they be printing the road book for the roll charts?
Be aware the roadbooks are not what is commonly known in the moto world as a roll chart. Roll charts are typically narrow (~2.5" wide), while standard roadbooks are 6" wide. The sheets in the roadbook will likely be 11" long, and will need to be torn out of the book and taped or glued together end-to-end by yourself. Hopefully by next year they will be provided in rolls (for motos and single-seaters), but we'll see how that goes.

The 2013 roadbooks will look much like this one from 2011 (though cut to 6" wide):
http://hogwildracing.com/baja/mexica...exican1000.pdf

If you're using the roadbook the whole way, it's worth getting a moto sytle motorized roadbook holder. If you're only going to use it (in a single-seater car) for the one short section where GPS tracks will not be provided, then you should be fine removing all but those 8 or so pages, and just rip each page off as you finish with it. The binding should be along the top edge. REALLY, all you need is a piece of duct tape to hold the 8 page booklet in place, and know how to reset and display the odometer in your GPS!
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:35 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Be aware the roadbooks are not what is commonly known in the moto world as a roll chart. Roll charts are typically narrow (~2.5" wide), while standard roadbooks are 6" wide. The sheets in the roadbook will likely be 11" long, and will need to be torn out of the book and taped or glued together end-to-end by yourself. Hopefully by next year they will be provided in rolls (for motos and single-seaters), but we'll see how that goes.

The 2013 roadbooks will look much like this one from 2011 (though cut to 6" wide):
http://hogwildracing.com/baja/mexica...exican1000.pdf

If you're using the roadbook the whole way, it's worth getting a moto sytle motorized roadbook holder. If you're only going to use it (in a single-seater car) for the one short section where GPS tracks will not be provided, then you should be fine removing all but those 8 or so pages, and just rip each page off as you finish with it. The binding should be along the top edge. REALLY, all you need is a piece of duct tape to hold the 8 page booklet in place, and know how to reset and display the odometer in your GPS!

Is it going to be like last year Perforated ring binding
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Be aware the roadbooks are not what is commonly known in the moto world as a roll chart. Roll charts are typically narrow (~2.5" wide), while standard roadbooks are 6" wide. The sheets in the roadbook will likely be 11" long, and will need to be torn out of the book and taped or glued together end-to-end by yourself. Hopefully by next year they will be provided in rolls (for motos and single-seaters), but we'll see how that goes.

The 2013 roadbooks will look much like this one from 2011 (though cut to 6" wide):
http://hogwildracing.com/baja/mexica...exican1000.pdf

If you're using the roadbook the whole way, it's worth getting a moto sytle motorized roadbook holder. If you're only going to use it (in a single-seater car) for the one short section where GPS tracks will not be provided, then you should be fine removing all but those 8 or so pages, and just rip each page off as you finish with it. The binding should be along the top edge. REALLY, all you need is a piece of duct tape to hold the 8 page booklet in place, and know how to reset and display the odometer in your GPS!
Have you actually tried doing this without a roll chart in a racecar with no windshield at 90 mph? There is substantial wind, just like dealing with loose pieces of paper on a bike at speed. Also I'm pretty handy with the odometer reset on my gps but at race speed I will cover anywhere from 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile during the process, that is if I don't crash out while fumbling with it. Of course I could get a navigator to do it but that would take the fun out of the event and giving my wife the boot because she is not a navigator would not go over well.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:54 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Baja Dad View Post
Is it going to be like last year Perforated ring binding
I think that's the plan, but you never know what NORRA will do!

Quote:
Originally Posted by baja-chris View Post
Have you actually tried doing this without a roll chart in a racecar with no windshield at 90 mph? There is substantial wind, just like dealing with loose pieces of paper on a bike at speed. Also I'm pretty handy with the odometer reset on my gps but at race speed I will cover anywhere from 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile during the process, that is if I don't crash out while fumbling with it. Of course I could get a navigator to do it but that would take the fun out of the event and giving my wife the boot because she is not a navigator would not go over well.
It will be difficult to do 90 mph on the secret section, but I get your point about the wind. A bit more tape, on the edges, would probably do it, but you might want to test that ahead of time. I have a multi-page 8x10 paper map on my moto "dash" that catches some serious wind (sometimes 90 mph), and all I have holding it is a clipboard style spring clamp at the top and a thin short bungie across the lower half.

If you're only using the roadbook for the short "secret" section, the only time you would need to reset your GPS odometer is while you're stopped at the start of a SS, waiting for them to flag you off. Actually that's the case for the start of ALL the SS's (they all start with mile 0.00). So, you don't need to do it while moving or "at speed".

If you're using an up/down adjustable rally style odometer, and you're doing longer sections where your odometer may drift off a bit, then you may want to adjust it on the fly. The bike guys with that setup do it all day long, with thumb switches. You don't even have to take your eyes off the road.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:59 PM   #112
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I am glad to hear the rally notes for the secret section will be based on zero miles for the start of the special and not zero at the start of the secret section. Thanks for the heads up, I will zero my gps odo at the start of the special and make sure it's overlay is on top with large font.

And I'll also commit the notes to memory before the special. 20 miles can't be that hard to memorize. I hope.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:45 PM   #113
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I'll also commit the notes to memory before the special. 20 miles can't be that hard to memorize. I hope.
Approximately 8 pages times 7 entries per page equals 56 navigation points. You have an EXCELLENT memory if you can remember all that!
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:03 PM   #114
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The page is too long, I dont have a place to put it where it viewable at speed. Last year I made notes and taped them on my cars visor.

Im ok with the motorized "Road book holder" at 275.00, but Im not sure about the odometer at the same price. The switches didnt look steering wheel friendly on either part. I can use my GPS odometer, but as Chris said, you cover a fair amount of ground trying to reset it.

I'm not doing this for the 20 miles section, I think having the road book would be an advantage over the whole race. In a single seater, you're off the gas during any indecision which ads up over 1200 miles.

Is there a standard milage where there's a reset? I only remember a couple last year.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:09 PM   #115
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Approximately 8 pages times 7 entries per page equals 56 navigation points. You have an EXCELLENT memory if you can remember all that!
Was only going to remember the notes for the 20 mile section. Or are you saying there are 8 pages just to cover 20 miles? I hope not, would be more like orienteering than motor racing. I really don't want to go rallying, I want to go racing and the NORRA stage format is fantastic as is - it's a better format than SCORE or any of the other desert series. Why on earth are they pushing this roadbook onto people who don't want it? What is wrong with it being optional? Oh well. I'm still going to have fun - in spite of the damned roadbook not because of it.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:14 PM   #116
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The road book is what makes it fun
It makes you think!!!!!!

Any one can go fast from corner to corner using GPS and ribbons
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #117
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The road book is what makes it fun
It makes you think!!!!!!

Any one can go fast from corner to corner using GPS and ribbons
True, but the one who does it fastest wins. Some go for the ride, some go for the race.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:24 PM   #118
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The road book is what makes it fun
It makes you think!!!!!!

Any one can go fast from corner to corner using GPS and ribbons
Yes, I suppose you are right. We could also text while hot lapping Laguna Seca. That would make you think too! How about we work some crossword puzzles while racing? That would put a new spin on it.

Sarchasim aside, out of the 150 or so motorcycle racers in a typical SCORE event, most of them are HOURS behind the lead few so it must not be THAT easy for anyone to go fast with GPS and ribbons. Maybe if you find it too easy you need to go faster??? Or maybe I'm out of line because you are one of the aliens that gaps the mere mortals.
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Old 04-03-2013, 09:30 PM   #119
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Yes, I suppose you are right. We could also text while hot lapping Laguna Seca. That would make you think too! How about we work some crossword puzzles while racing? That would put a new spin on it.

Sarchasim aside, out of the 150 or so motorcycle racers in a typical SCORE event, most of them are HOURS behind the lead few so it must not be THAT easy for anyone to go fast with GPS and ribbons. Maybe if you find it too easy you need to go faster??? Or maybe I'm out of line because you are one of the aliens that gaps the mere mortals.
Not an alien just a old fat guy !!
Who has had a lot of FUN racing in Baja
The last 30 years
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:26 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by az45 View Post
The page is too long, I dont have a place to put it where it viewable at speed. Last year I made notes and taped them on my cars visor.
You can cut each page in half, making 16 pages (more pages for longer stages). The binding may be a challenge though! That's partly why a moto roadbook holder is handy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by az45 View Post
Im ok with the motorized "Road book holder" at 275.00, but Im not sure about the odometer at the same price. The switches didnt look steering wheel friendly on either part. I can use my GPS odometer, but as Chris said, you cover a fair amount of ground trying to reset it.
I don't think there is a perfect solution, but there are some ok solutions. The roadbook motor switch is just a toggle switch, up for forward and down for backwards. You don't have to hit it exactly at each intersection. Just hit it at some point between navigation points when you're a bit less busy. The roadbook window shows 3 navigation points at one time, so you actually don't have to advance it but once every 2 or 3 nav points.

The odometer is a different deal. If you do the WHOLE event using the GPS odometer, you will struggle because after a while it won’t match the roadbook. Then you’re sort of screwed as far as using the roadbook, . . . until the next reset to 0.00. To use the roadbook properly, you need an odometer that can be adjusted up or down on the fly. The GPS can’t do that. The roadbook does have the mileage between each nav point, in small print. So, you could reset to 0.00 at EVERY nav point and just use those small numbers. But that’s a real pain, and not at all recommended. If you don’t have a good roadbook holder (mechanical or human) and an adjustable odometer, your better have your GPS with tracks ready! For the SHORT secret section, your GPS odometer should not drift off much, so you should be fine there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by az45 View Post
I'm not doing this for the 20 miles section, I think having the road book would be an advantage over the whole race. In a single seater, you're off the gas during any indecision which ads up over 1200 miles.
You'll have indecision moments with a roadbook too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by az45 View Post
Is there a standard milage where there's a reset? I only remember a couple last year.
I think the roadbook is reset to 0.00 at the start of every Special Stage, and probably at the start of each transfer section as well. I don't recall any resets mid-stage. So, you should always be stopped at those points, making it easy to reset.

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Was only going to remember the notes for the 20 mile section. Or are you saying there are 8 pages just to cover 20 miles?
The 8 pages are for the secret section ONLY. I put a few more nav points in than usual so you guys wouldn't get lost. But it's also an area with LOTS of intersections and different ways to go. So it will indeed require your full concentration.

Quote:
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I hope not, would be more like orienteering than motor racing. I really don't want to go rallying, I want to go racing and the NORRA stage format is fantastic as is - it's a better format than SCORE or any of the other desert series. Why on earth are they pushing this roadbook onto people who don't want it? What is wrong with it being optional? Oh well. I'm still going to have fun - in spite of the damned roadbook not because of it.
That's something I'm sure you and some others will tell Mike P. What I don't understand is why there is ZERO complaining about it on RDC? I expected a huge negative response there. What's up with that? Do they not understand what it means so they are afraid to say anything, or they don't care one way or the other, or there just aren't any of those who would care actually reading RDC?

You guys are bringing up many of the right issues, so you're going to have an advantage over all those who start to comprehend it only after they are already in Mexicali.

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Originally Posted by Baja Dad View Post
The road book is what makes it fun
It makes you think!!!!!!
This is hard to understand until you do it completely without a GPS. There's that element of unknown that I'm sure was with the original Baja racers back in the first couple of years. Once in a while you question yourself if you went the right way or not. And you use all the tools you have with you to answer that question. Half of those tools are on your dash, and half are in your brain. Putting those two sets of tools together with success gives a unique sense of satisfaction that just isn't there when you follow a line on a GPS. It's an added level of adventure, competition, and challenge.
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