ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-05-2013, 11:31 AM   #16726
KYLEISCOOL
Who
 
KYLEISCOOL's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: So. Cal. U.S.A
Oddometer: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by cognugget View Post
WHy do you clutch every shift when the only proven effect in doing so is wearing out clutch components.
Do you have an unlimited amount of clutch components to your disposal and holdin out on everyone? I dont know bout you but just getting springs,fibers, and steels are enough to empty my "fun" funds. I need a bigger allowance.
__________________
Gotta ride something! 02' XR650R slightly personalized
KYLEISCOOL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2013, 12:18 PM   #16727
Jayrod1318
Poster
 
Jayrod1318's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Here and there and stuff.
Oddometer: 1,538
I saw a video of a guy on a ducati SM at the track. Ducati Ad/ promo thing.



They had a camera pointed on his clutch hand and he was just applying just a bit of clutch on UP shifts and full clutch on down shifts, it was pretty cool to watch.
__________________

Jayrod1318 screwed with this post 04-05-2013 at 12:26 PM
Jayrod1318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2013, 12:59 PM   #16728
ZXRaziel
Gnarly Adventurer
 
ZXRaziel's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Location: Grey skyes and rain of Good old England ( NEast)
Oddometer: 396
I believe that honda put the clutch there for a reason , but i might be wrong , it might be there just for the looks , as it would look stupid to only have one lever on a bike and the people with OCD would suffer as it just looks wrong - unbalanced

There is something called recluse clutch , and there is a bike called Jawa made in Czech republic that has automatic clutch . - Good for folks with lazy hand , unles you just love to repair your bike .
__________________
good things them hondas
ZXRaziel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2013, 06:00 PM   #16729
slickwill
Exhiled
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Ohio
Oddometer: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZXRaziel View Post
I believe that honda put the clutch there for a reason , but i might be wrong...
They actually put it there for three reasons: when you are stopping/starting, downshifts, and low rpm upshifts.

A clutchless upshift when you roll off the throttle isn't any different than using a quick shifter that briefly cuts spark to unload the transmission while you shift. BMW, Ducati, and Aprilia all have bikes available that come from the factory with quick shifters for clutchless upshifts. With factory warranties. Their transmissions are built the same as the Honda.
slickwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2013, 06:44 PM   #16730
mattymurn
Adventurer
 
mattymurn's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: North Vancouver, B.C.
Oddometer: 22
stuff in the oil....

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
I was trying to say, change your clutch operation as a test, do another sample, see if the numbers improve, if not you need to dig in and see what's up. I'd be willing to bet that it's all from the clutch, including the aluminum...basket fingers wear really fast, especially if you clutch every shift like I do.
last year I completely fried my clutch. to the point that a fiber came apart.
The bike ran fine thru all this. I went to drain the oil and almost none came out. Its not that there was no oil but fiber debris had clogged the downtube drain. I removed both screens and they were full of bits of the fiber.

I flushed the crankcase as best as possible and got most of the big parts out.

Long story short, it took about 5-6 oil changes in a row and cleaning of both oil screens a few times to get the parts of the fiber out of the crankcase.

My last oil change was completely clean and the bike is running great.

It would be interesting to know given a wet clutch design how much debris from a wearing clutch is tolerated before engine damage occurs...

matthew
mattymurn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2013, 07:56 PM   #16731
crypto666
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2011
Location: The best trails in Nevada
Oddometer: 1,200
Why the fuck wouldn't you use your clutch when shifting? What is the purpose? When I am trying to go fast, I like the clutch, its neat. Some people even keep their clutch when the run a recluse.

I love dropping into a sandy wash and pinning the throttle in fourth and feathering clutch as it launches towards 80mph. Try powering up a twisty sandy wash with your clutchless power shifts and see what comes out of your oil.

Why all this anti-clutch sentiment?

I think the anti-clutch crowd needs to go ride.
crypto666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2013, 09:22 PM   #16732
superhobie
Soil Sampler
 
superhobie's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: San Luis Obispo, CA
Oddometer: 100
Because it works for me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crypto666 View Post
Why the fuck wouldn't you use your clutch when shifting? What is the purpose? When I am trying to go fast, I like the clutch, its neat. Some people even keep their clutch when the run a recluse.

I love dropping into a sandy wash and pinning the throttle in fourth and feathering clutch as it launches towards 80mph. Try powering up a twisty sandy wash with your clutchless power shifts and see what comes out of your oil.

Why all this anti-clutch sentiment?

I think the anti-clutch crowd needs to go ride.

Um okay, ride like 15k miles through Desert/Baja/Sierra Single track/Street and everything in between, like that kind of riding? All done with as little clutch as necessary to start and stop and power up technical rocky uphill single track. Feather your clutch in sandy wash not sure on that one but what ever floats your boat. Point is lots of people who have been riding a long time don't use the clutch either for up shifting or down shifting given the right variables and skill level. As for the purpose its one less thing to do that is not necessary and results in a faster shift, if you choose to use your clutch for every shift congrats, but certainly don't imply that in some way it limits other peoples riding I can assure you it doesn't

superhobie screwed with this post 04-05-2013 at 10:34 PM
superhobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2013, 10:27 PM   #16733
Jayrod1318
Poster
 
Jayrod1318's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Here and there and stuff.
Oddometer: 1,538
Dear Mr. Honda, don't be a bitch about my PetCock



He's a good petcock, but the ethanol he ingests and has been sitting in for 12 years has made him a hard, brittle little bitch that keeps clogging carburetor jets. Not only that he has incontinence and dribbles gas when he's not supposed to.

The solution you ask? We shall rebuild him. A quick call to the Stealership yields an un-comforting answer. "Honda only sells the whole assembly for $47.00". I press further I said, "It's just just a rubber disk with 4 holes in it and an X-ring that goes on the valve handle". Dealer says "sorry can't help, I can get you the whole thing in 3 days".

No, not again. Mr. Honda will not thwart my plans at fixing my Petcock. I search diligently on here and and on TT to find an answer, surely some tight wad asshole like me wants to stick it to the man and fix his petcock with inexpensive rubber bits. The most popular answer to leaking petcock was to simply buy the whole thing like Mr. Honda wants you to. The second most popular answer was to buy an aftermarket petcock like the one from Clark manufacturing. It's cheaper and by all accounts does a fine job but has no reserve. Well Fuck that. An obscure old post on thumper talk alludes to an 18mm 4 hole gasket that works, but is actually is too small. The corresponding x-ring is too small as well. Well I thought this is a start, At least I know Mr.Honda does sell some petcock parts. Now lets find out which ones. A barrage of Google searches comes up with the 18mm parts for some old cb's and the like. Not very many petcock parts available form Honda. But also hidden in the results is the "trx 250 petcock kit". Interesting, by the photos it looks to be quite a bit bigger in diameter than the others ones. Several google searches later I come up empty handed with size info on the trx 250 petcock parts. No info or posts telling me this is what people buy to fix xr650r's. (or any other Honda dirt bike). In fact no petcock parts are available for any popular Honda model. I quick measurement of my leaky petcock confirms, it has a 22 mm valve body. Well, I said to myself, lets roll the dice. The Trx 250 parts were ordered. Part #'s 16955-HA2-005 4 hole gasket. and part# 16963-HB9-005 x-ring.



A dial caliper confirms the 22mm size. Bingo.

A quick install, make sure you lube your petcock for smooth action and valve handle insertion. (don't try to insert it dry you will tear it)




Any minute now i fear some Japanese mafia guys will pull up and "teach me a lesson". So far so good.

With the widespread use of ethanol in gas and the aging nature of these bikes, this will start to become more commonplace. I hope this bit of Knowledge will kick around and I hope I used enough keywords in this post to find it down the road.

My contribution to the xr650r knowledge base.
__________________
Jayrod1318 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013, 01:20 AM   #16734
TJE
Space Emperor
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Oddometer: 68
After a recent clutch change, the clutch was slipping bad when spanking the gas.

I just took it apart for the second time, to double check. I took some pics of it all, so if you see anything odd/wrong, please let me know.

Notice the wear marks on the inner smallish one. Also, if you can, please let me know why some of the friction plates has the number "1" imprinted on it, and others have the numer "2". I can't see ANY difference at all.

Did I line up the discs correct?

On the last picture, you can see that one of the damn bolts snapped, even though I wasn't using a lot of force. It must have been stressed already. What would be the way to fix this?

I think I'm getting a depression now :(




__________________
2006 Vespa Grantourismo 125L
1998 Honda XRV750 Africa Twin
2003 Honda XR650R

My gallery: http://www.subsignal.com/DEMO

TJE screwed with this post 04-06-2013 at 01:27 AM
TJE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013, 03:55 AM   #16735
slickwill
Exhiled
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Ohio
Oddometer: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy View Post
Why do you have the last clutch plate sitting where it is(in the second last pic), and not the same as the others?. Is that the way you had them set up when the clutch was slipping.? It should be where the others are. Not sure what the numbers represent, maybe just manufactures markings.
This isn't correct. Check the manual. The last disk is supposed to be offset from the others and sits in the fingers of the clutch basket.

What I do notice though is that your total clutch pack thickness isn't enough. You can't directly compare mine because mine has the judder spring mod, meaning it's long gone. You get rid of the judder spring, judder plate, and the skinny disk and replace with an extra plate and regular fiber disc leaving a total of six plates and seven identical fiber discs. However, even with that mod the total cluck pack thickness is comparable. You pic just doesn't show enough thickness to get them to adequately lock together under power. Lay out every component in order and compare them to the microfiche and see what is missing. Or take a pic with them all laid out in order so that we can compare for you.

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche...03&fveh=134983

Seat for judder spring, then judder spring, then skinny disc, then the alternating plates and regular disc.

slickwill screwed with this post 04-06-2013 at 04:00 AM
slickwill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013, 04:03 AM   #16736
Sean-0
Closed
 
Sean-0's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: Oztraya Mate
Oddometer: 4,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayrod1318 View Post


He's a good petcock, but the ethanol he ingests and has been sitting in for 12 years has made him a hard, brittle little bitch that keeps clogging carburetor jets. Not only that he has incontinence and dribbles gas when he's not supposed to.

The solution you ask? We shall rebuild him. A quick call to the Stealership yields an un-comforting answer. "Honda only sells the whole assembly for $47.00". I press further I said, "It's just just a rubber disk with 4 holes in it and an X-ring that goes on the valve handle". Dealer says "sorry can't help, I can get you the whole thing in 3 days".

No, not again. Mr. Honda will not thwart my plans at fixing my Petcock. I search diligently on here and and on TT to find an answer, surely some tight wad asshole like me wants to stick it to the man and fix his petcock with inexpensive rubber bits. The most popular answer to leaking petcock was to simply buy the whole thing like Mr. Honda wants you to. The second most popular answer was to buy an aftermarket petcock like the one from Clark manufacturing. It's cheaper and by all accounts does a fine job but has no reserve. Well Fuck that. An obscure old post on thumper talk alludes to an 18mm 4 hole gasket that works, but is actually is too small. The corresponding x-ring is too small as well. Well I thought this is a start, At least I know Mr.Honda does sell some petcock parts. Now lets find out which ones. A barrage of Google searches comes up with the 18mm parts for some old cb's and the like. Not very many petcock parts available form Honda. But also hidden in the results is the "trx 250 petcock kit". Interesting, by the photos it looks to be quite a bit bigger in diameter than the others ones. Several google searches later I come up empty handed with size info on the trx 250 petcock parts. No info or posts telling me this is what people buy to fix xr650r's. (or any other Honda dirt bike). In fact no petcock parts are available for any popular Honda model. I quick measurement of my leaky petcock confirms, it has a 22 mm valve body. Well, I said to myself, lets roll the dice. The Trx 250 parts were ordered. Part #'s 16955-HA2-005 4 hole gasket. and part# 16963-HB9-005 x-ring.



A dial caliper confirms the 22mm size. Bingo.

A quick install, make sure you lube your petcock for smooth action and valve handle insertion. (don't try to insert it dry you will tear it)




Any minute now i fear some Japanese mafia guys will pull up and "teach me a lesson". So far so good.

With the widespread use of ethanol in gas and the aging nature of these bikes, this will start to become more commonplace. I hope this bit of Knowledge will kick around and I hope I used enough keywords in this post to find it down the road.

My contribution to the xr650r knowledge base.

nice work
Sean-0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013, 05:41 AM   #16737
Renazco
Formerly AKA Boejangles
 
Renazco's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, Ca.
Oddometer: 4,739
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJE View Post
Also, if you can, please let me know why some of the friction plates has the number "1" imprinted on it, and others have the numer "2". I can't see ANY difference at all.
I can only assume as I've seen with other clutches, that numbers 1 & 2 are different thicknesses. If you have a set of calipers I would like to see if there is a difference.








.
__________________
Seats www.renazco.com
Parts & Accesories www.renazcoracing.com
Renazco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013, 08:44 AM   #16738
KonaTheHusky
Adventurer
 
KonaTheHusky's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Somewhere on the West Coast
Oddometer: 70
Hey all,

Recently picked up an awesome BRP that will take me to Panama this May. Love the bike, and got it on the cheap because it had been sitting for a year and needed a carb clean. Well I took the carb out for a thorough clean, but its still not right.

When I bought her she ran rich (black smoke and blackened spark plug) and would die if I took it off choke.

Now I've cleaned the jets, the needle is 2nd notch, and I put a 170 main jet in (she had a 180 when I bought her). Air screw is 2 turns out. She will now run at idle without choke, but as soon as I open up the throttle there's black smoke and she bogs down. Full choke she runs like a bat outa Hell and doesn't bog, but obviously idles high. I have yet to give the air filter a good cleaning.

The bike came with a big gun straight pipe, slotted xrsonly air filter cover, and supposedly a high comp piston but I take that with a grain of salt since I can't see it and don't have receipts. I'm at 5500ft, its around 60f these days.

Oh, I also adjusted the valves. Any thoughts?
KonaTheHusky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013, 08:48 AM   #16739
larryboy
Paint it black.
 
larryboy's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Über Alles,Ca
Oddometer: 13,667
Quote:
Originally Posted by KonaTheHusky View Post
Any thoughts?


Are you sure you're moving the choke lever the right direction? No offense.


Try riding it with the lever in the direction that makes it run right and drop the idle speed.
larryboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2013, 09:04 AM   #16740
KonaTheHusky
Adventurer
 
KonaTheHusky's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Location: Somewhere on the West Coast
Oddometer: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryboy View Post
Are you sure you're moving the choke lever the right direction? No offense.


Try riding it with the lever in the direction that makes it run right and drop the idle speed.
No offense taken. It's an embarrassing prospect, but makes a lot of sense considering I never thought to check which choke lever position corresponded with which plate position. Hahaha that actually makes a lot of sense.

I'll check after breakfast and let ya know.
KonaTheHusky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014