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Old 04-06-2013, 08:35 AM   #1
maximo de la maximus OP
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bmw navigator IV, New mount, Wired Audio, AAaaaarrrrggghhh

Apologies in advance if this has been previously threaded- I couldn't find it.

The new mounts for the Nav IV do not have the buttons on the left side however it does still cover the antenna and audio out plugs. But, alas, without the buttons it seemed to me to be an easy fix; carefully drill out a hole in the plastic that allows a thin audio jack to be plugged in so you could use wired audio for gps prompts and MP3s.

Wired the bike and found out that something about being connected to the charging mount STILL won't let you run a cable- Maddening.

Has anyone figured a way around this? Software updates, connector isolation, voodoo, anything?

It's clear that BMW wants us to use bluetooth but even with a quiet helmet I can't use helmet speakers for anything but gps prompts. I find that due to wind noise I have to turn the volume up to such a level that it's not good for my hearing and just becomes a distraction. Ear buds for me both act as an isolator with or without music and when I choose music I can keep a low setting.

I'm looking into a bluetooth receiver which I can plug my buds into just hate the idea of another cable if I want to keep it charged. Anyone ?
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:46 AM   #2
lhendrik
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I thought the Nav IV/Zumo 660 cable has leads for +/- 12 V power, AUDIO OUT and XM Antenna in? Why are you trying to plug audio into the GPS direct? Maybe you have a new mount I don't know about, but until recently that's how it worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximo de la maximus View Post
Apologies in advance if this has been previously threaded- I couldn't find it.

The new mounts for the Nav IV do not have the buttons on the left side however it does still cover the antenna and audio out plugs. But, alas, without the buttons it seemed to me to be an easy fix; carefully drill out a hole in the plastic that allows a thin audio jack to be plugged in so you could use wired audio for gps prompts and MP3s.

Wired the bike and found out that something about being connected to the charging mount STILL won't let you run a cable- Maddening.

Has anyone figured a way around this? Software updates, connector isolation, voodoo, anything?

It's clear that BMW wants us to use bluetooth but even with a quiet helmet I can't use helmet speakers for anything but gps prompts. I find that due to wind noise I have to turn the volume up to such a level that it's not good for my hearing and just becomes a distraction. Ear buds for me both act as an isolator with or without music and when I choose music I can keep a low setting.

I'm looking into a bluetooth receiver which I can plug my buds into just hate the idea of another cable if I want to keep it charged. Anyone ?
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:49 AM   #3
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Can't help you with the Nav IV cradle question, but I use custom-molded earbuds with my Sena SMH10 (+earbud adapter mounting plate), and the sound quality and wind noise isolation is far superior to helmet speakers and foam earplugs.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:16 AM   #4
glennbonner
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Zumo/Nav IV MP3 Cradle Fix

NEW Edit NOTE! I found that I had a bad cable, so I retested the pin-out on the cradle and it does provide stereo, so ignore the statement below about the harness not being stereo!

---------------------------------------------

1 - When placed in the Garmin cradle, the Zumo 660/665/Nav IV GPS units automatically disable the MP3 player.

2 - The Cradle and Harness only support a MONO mini-jack connection for output. I believe the reason is that Nav voice instructions are fixed 'open' modulation - a fixed modulation interspersed with the voice instructions. What this does is keep the channel open so that the instructions will interrupt the music/radio/book reading, etc of the bike's radio system. On newer R1200RT/K1600GT and other BMWs with the new radio systems this fades out the sound currently playing so the voice instructions are heard clearly and completely.

3 - Stereo sound is by design modulated and varies to give the stereo effect, so if you could play the MP3 player on the GPS through the MONO cradle harness plug (although you only get one channel), the modulation varies and the bike's radio system will attempt to fade-in/out as the music changes - sounds real bad. However if mono is good for you and you are not using a output system that fades-in/out, the cradle's harness will work IF you could just get the Media Player to play while in the cradle.

4 - So the only way to play MP3 Stereo music from the above GPS's is:

a) To use a Bluetooth receiver and pair the A2DP (Audio) output of the GPS to a compatible A2DP receiver (or Headset), OR
b) Use a hardwired mini-stereo patch cord and plug in to the headphone jack on the left side of the Zumo under the rubber flap and plug the other end to your speakers/radio/communicator AND then somehow FOOL the GPS into believing it is UNCRADLED.

If Bluetooth is enabled and connected through the A2DP profile and the GPS is in the cradle, the Media Player will start right up. If a stereo jack (headset. radio system or other) is plugged in you will get an error when you select the Media Player icon that says: to plug in a headset - what it is trying to tell you is to take it out of the cradle. (Try plugging some earbuds into the unit - uncradled, select media player - works fine. Now put it in the cradle and try the same thing - error right?)

What this means? The Zumo Cradle Harness will not carry stereo, it wasn't designed to do that (most of us are still in disbelief) and virtually everyone gradually figures this out after they get the cradle mounted and start plugging everything in. So keep saying to yourself, If I can just get the MP3 player to work while it is charging in the cradle then it will be worth the $700+ - keep saying this to yourself.

WORKAROUND !

Flip the Zumo over, cut a 1/16 inch piece of electrical tape, place it over the 3rd contact from the bottom on the rightmost row of contacts (see photo). Now repeat the test with the earbuds above, the Media Player should now play even after cradled! Now replace the earbuds with a stereo patch cable to your favorite radio system AUX input/communicator/wired helmet headset. Player works, keep saying to yourself that the MP3 player now works in the charging cradle. Oh, and you can get fancy with the wires, drill a little hole and run the patch cord in and behind the cradle.

Now as you zip past a group of Harley riders rest assured that while you don't have much else in common with loud pipes, chrome or black leather, you are BROTHERS in the STRUGGLE to have your Zumo MP3 player working...Harley's Road Tech Zumo has the same problem (I have both and have shared this fix with our brethren)!
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glennbonner screwed with this post 04-08-2013 at 09:27 AM
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:45 AM   #5
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Oh yes, I forgot to mention, if you use this fix on a R1200RT/K1600GT or other BMW equipped Advanced radio system and you want to hear for yourself how bad the MP3 player sounds through through the mono factory harness with fade-in/out, be sure to put a 'Dummy' mini-jack in the Zumo's headphone jack as even with the Electrical tape fix, the Zumo firmware likes you to know that you don't have a headset in and will give you the connect headset error!
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:37 PM   #6
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You Sir, are my hero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennbonner View Post
1 - When placed in the Garmin cradle, the Zumo 660/665/Nav IV GPS units automatically disable the MP3 player.

WORKAROUND !

Flip the Zumo over, cut a 1/16 inch piece of electrical tape, place it over the 3rd contact from the bottom on the rightmost row of contacts (see photo). Now repeat the test with the earbuds above, the Media Player should now play even after cradled! Now replace the earbuds with a stereo patch cable to your favorite radio system AUX input/communicator/wired helmet headset. Player works, keep saying to yourself that the MP3 player now works in the charging cradle. Oh, and you can get fancy with the wires, drill a little hole and run the patch cord in and behind the cradle.
Was on a long loop ride today (looking at my Nav IV and listening to my phone/music) and while on a coffee break I checked my e mail and saw that someone had responded to my question on this thread... Over coffee I quiety ignored my riding partners and read your spot on report.... AND FIX for my issue. While the others had a second cup I walked across the street, bought a roll of electric tape, and covered that third from the bottom on the right connect. Somewhat sceptical I plugged my buds into the Nav, started the bike up, hit tools/media player and HOLY *HIT there's my MP3s! Hit play and HOLY *HIT there's music!

Wait, it gets better.

Rode the next 120 miles listening to my MP3s and Nav voice prompts. It was mono and a little dissapointing (most songs you just can't hear vocals, flat, etc.) but as I rode along I thought about your recommendation to connect to something else so was super psyched.

Then something weird happened.

After pulling into a gas station I went to unplug my ear buds from the extention (which I had already fitted previously, not know it wouldn't work). With gloves on I pulled the plugs apart but only (very) partially as my gloves slipped on the smallish plug- So, As I did this, with the mono music still playing in my ears, it suddently and dramatically went to STEREO! I fiddled with it a bit; when the plug is totally pushed in as much as possible it's mono and I get voice prompts for the navigation... when I very gently pull the plugs apart (again, this is between the extention and my buds/ not the male jack and Nav) to a point where it "clicks" in again then I get stereo music BUT no voice prompts.

I'm sure there's an audiophile electrical cableogenius reason for this. Honestly, I'm just glad you knew this work around and shared it. This brings me closer to riding and audio use perfection... which may very well be unattainable but it's a quest.

So, for now if I need stereo- I got it. If I need good clear directions (I push the plug in all the way) and I got it. Of course, I've lost hand wheel control of the gps but I'm OK with that. I might try a bluetooth receiver but I can't see it working for me as I don't want to worry about charging stuff up for every ride.

Again, thanks- Used to live in Las Vegas so when you ride to CO to beat the heat let me know and I'll share some of my favorite rides.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #7
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Glad it worked for you! I found out that my cable that I used to check the pin-outs on the harness was defective, so I placed a note in my original post above to ignore the statement about the harness audio out being MONO. It does support STEREO.

So if you do the electrical tape fix, you can just stick a dummy plug in the headphone jack on the unit and connect your radio/headset/communicator to the harness.

From your experience is sounds like the GPS firmware is detecting a 'Connected' plug and reacting to it and your plug is not making the connection, but that the GPS firmware still passes the audio! Once I did the fix on my Nav IV, stereo MP3's played and voice directions can be heard through the audio connection, when on my '01 GS and both can be head on the K1600GT as long as I have the SRC radio button on AUX - with nothing plugged in and the mp3's sound great as does the voice directions.

The only downside as you mentioned is the GPS does not show up on the K1600GT menu. so you can't Page, Zoom, etc.

Yeah SinCity is a nice place off the strip - lived there 12 years!
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:57 PM   #8
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electro wizadry

Glenn..., I envy your understanding of these things- curious as to your background. I wish I could get you in my garage looking over my bike for 2 hours (hearing my audio "wish list") as I imagine you would have the solutions; or at least the experience to know what would and wouldn' work.

I see the discussion on the "dummy plug" and "audio harness output" and to my limited knowledge it doesn't make sense. I'm still in pre school, meaning- audio in/ audio out. Not sure how to access a harness lead. There's only one cable coming from the Nav cradle and I'm pretty sure it's just power.

Again, thanks (and it was fun applying your work around on the road) and if you have any other secret recommendations please do share. This is exactly why I search these forums hoping to be able to congtribute!

MdlM

PS- I did pick up on the Sena/blutooth receiver convo from you and our other contributor. Seems there's something here. If one were to get the sena and the ear bud plate add on, keep the unit in the tank bag plugged in for power, I'd still be wired to the sena but would have MP3, nav prompts, and hand controls. In the parking lot and camping nothing changes: put in ear buds. Still not sure about the stereo box input deal but I don't think it would work with the stuff I have now. Like I said- never ending quest.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:08 PM   #9
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When you saw "new mount", are you referring to the locking one on the '13 R1200GS, or something else? And if this is that mount, is there somewhere where I can buy one and get it keyed to my '11 R1200GS?
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:22 PM   #10
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nav mount

Quote:
Originally Posted by /dev/null View Post
When you saw "new mount", are you referring to the locking one on the '13 R1200GS, or something else? And if this is that mount, is there somewhere where I can buy one and get it keyed to my '11 R1200GS?
Yes, that's the "new mount" I'm referencing... the one that comes as a option on the '13 gs. Not having the earlier version I'm not exactly sure what all the differences are but the obvious one for me is that there are no vertically oriented external buttons along the left side...therefore I was able to drill a hole to access the audio jack.

As far as getting one of these mounts I can't help you. I haven't seen it as an option to buy seperately- only as part of a package for the model. Of course there's other aftermarket options but I'm sure you're aware of that. However, I bet with enough soliciting you would find someone who got the option that would rather have their own and different brand gps...so would give up their plastic mount for someone who wanted it...?
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #11
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Thanks, then I have seen the new mount (my Dad just bought a '13 with it...regrettably he has a Nav IV in it already). Definitely looking to figure out if it once can be retrofitted to my '11. Have yet to see it individually for sale (my buttons-on-the-left mount is available everywhere, of course). It does appear the '11 and '13 keys are the same basic design, so I'm guessing the mount could be keyed appropriately.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennbonner View Post
NEW Edit NOTE! I found that I had a bad cable, so I retested the pin-out on the cradle and it does provide stereo, so ignore the statement below about the harness not being stereo!

---------------------------------------------

1 - When placed in the Garmin cradle, the Zumo 660/665/Nav IV GPS units automatically disable the MP3 player.

2 - The Cradle and Harness only support a MONO mini-jack connection for output. I believe the reason is that Nav voice instructions are fixed 'open' modulation - a fixed modulation interspersed with the voice instructions. What this does is keep the channel open so that the instructions will interrupt the music/radio/book reading, etc of the bike's radio system. On newer R1200RT/K1600GT and other BMWs with the new radio systems this fades out the sound currently playing so the voice instructions are heard clearly and completely.

3 - Stereo sound is by design modulated and varies to give the stereo effect, so if you could play the MP3 player on the GPS through the MONO cradle harness plug (although you only get one channel), the modulation varies and the bike's radio system will attempt to fade-in/out as the music changes - sounds real bad. However if mono is good for you and you are not using a output system that fades-in/out, the cradle's harness will work IF you could just get the Media Player to play while in the cradle.

4 - So the only way to play MP3 Stereo music from the above GPS's is:

a) To use a Bluetooth receiver and pair the A2DP (Audio) output of the GPS to a compatible A2DP receiver (or Headset), OR
b) Use a hardwired mini-stereo patch cord and plug in to the headphone jack on the left side of the Zumo under the rubber flap and plug the other end to your speakers/radio/communicator AND then somehow FOOL the GPS into believing it is UNCRADLED.

If Bluetooth is enabled and connected through the A2DP profile and the GPS is in the cradle, the Media Player will start right up. If a stereo jack (headset. radio system or other) is plugged in you will get an error when you select the Media Player icon that says: to plug in a headset - what it is trying to tell you is to take it out of the cradle. (Try plugging some earbuds into the unit - uncradled, select media player - works fine. Now put it in the cradle and try the same thing - error right?)

What this means? The Zumo Cradle Harness will not carry stereo, it wasn't designed to do that (most of us are still in disbelief) and virtually everyone gradually figures this out after they get the cradle mounted and start plugging everything in. So keep saying to yourself, If I can just get the MP3 player to work while it is charging in the cradle then it will be worth the $700+ - keep saying this to yourself.

WORKAROUND !

Flip the Zumo over, cut a 1/16 inch piece of electrical tape, place it over the 3rd contact from the bottom on the rightmost row of contacts (see photo). Now repeat the test with the earbuds above, the Media Player should now play even after cradled! Now replace the earbuds with a stereo patch cable to your favorite radio system AUX input/communicator/wired helmet headset. Player works, keep saying to yourself that the MP3 player now works in the charging cradle. Oh, and you can get fancy with the wires, drill a little hole and run the patch cord in and behind the cradle.

Now as you zip past a group of Harley riders rest assured that while you don't have much else in common with loud pipes, chrome or black leather, you are BROTHERS in the STRUGGLE to have your Zumo MP3 player working...Harley's Road Tech Zumo has the same problem (I have both and have shared this fix with our brethren)!
First of all, thanks for a great tip !

I must say, however, that I was not very happy with drealing a hole in my GSW craddle to fit the headphone plug. For one I am affraid it will allow water inside the GPS...

I use a ZUMO 660 craddle mounted on the original GSW GPS mount and found the following work around:

1 Place the electrical tape as instructed by glennbonner.
2 Stick a dummy plug inside the left side earphone hole

Thiis dummy plug may be nothing more than a plastic pin in the appropriate 3,5 mm diameter as its purpose is to open an (inside the female plug) contact once "something" is inserted inside.

Make the fake plug in such a way that the part to be inserted inside the female is the same lenght as a standard plug and the"outer" part as short as possible so you may still close the rubber bonnet while long enough that with neddle nose pliers you may still remove it in the future if you so desire.

3 Connect your wired headphones to the ZUMO's craddle original female stereo plug output.

Andre
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:18 AM   #13
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Had similar fault with in ear monitors..

Maximo, just read your post regarding the music going stereo as you pulled the lead out and it sounds exactly like a fault I had on my new In-Ear 'Ultimate Ear' monitors I got earlier this year.
When I received them I instantly plugged them into my iphone to try them out, but they sounded terrible! Like the band were playing in a cave or in a room at the end of a long corridor. If I partially pulled the plug out of the socket it cleared up (but the plug wouldn't stay secured like that)
I tried a stereo test track on my phone and found the output was not behaving as expected.
Sent them back for repair and it turned out that the ground wire had become disconnected inside the plug during assembly. pulling the plug out partially allowed the return to go through the other feed wire, so I got mono but in both ears.
It might be that you have either a faulty lead, a miswired socket or maybe the socket is actually mono not stereo and a stereo lead is not putting the pins in the right places.
Does the lead work in another source? If it does then I suspect the socket you're connecting to is Mono.
Hope this helps in finding a solution.
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Old 12-28-2013, 10:56 PM   #14
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Faulty lead or mono socket....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimreaper7 View Post
Maximo, just read your post regarding the music going stereo as you pulled the lead out and it sounds exactly like a fault I had on my new In-Ear 'Ultimate Ear' monitors I got earlier this year.
When I received them I instantly plugged them into my iphone to try them out, but they sounded terrible! Like the band were playing in a cave or in a room at the end of a long corridor. If I partially pulled the plug out of the socket it cleared up (but the plug wouldn't stay secured like that)
I tried a stereo test track on my phone and found the output was not behaving as expected.
Sent them back for repair and it turned out that the ground wire had become disconnected inside the plug during assembly. pulling the plug out partially allowed the return to go through the other feed wire, so I got mono but in both ears.
It might be that you have either a faulty lead, a miswired socket or maybe the socket is actually mono not stereo and a stereo lead is not putting the pins in the right places.
Does the lead work in another source? If it does then I suspect the socket you're connecting to is Mono.
Hope this helps in finding a solution.
Thanks Grimreaper- at the moment I'm not sure either. The ear buds are used so far exclusively on the bike/ for riding. on holiday now but when I return home I will try them on another source. I'll also get to try them directly into the gps; right now I have an extension running from he gps, under the plastic tank liner, to a spot just above the saddle to keep the cockpit clean and facilitate plugging in and standing up. Could it be the extension is wired mono?... Or has a faulty lead? Hope that's the case as it's an easy fix.

Thanks again, and I'll let you know what I find out!
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