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Old 04-15-2013, 08:07 AM   #46
FakeName OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syzygy9 View Post
So we rely on anecdotal evidence mixed in with a healthy dose of common sense.
Correct.

If we had other scientific data, I wouldn't have asked the question of an internet forum.

Truth is, I don't know if they help, but the antecdotal evidence is pretty strong, as strong as my motivation to avoid repairing flats without a climate controlled environment, a mechanic, and a cold beer in my hand while trolling the internet on my iPad, negotiating huge licensing fees for images I've already created. Surrounded by tasteful yet scantily-clad young women, all of whom have advanced degrees in philosophy, science and creative writing. Some of whom wear nerdy-type glasses.

One thing that DOES remain clear- nobody has mentioned a pattern of issues using UHD tubes on the street, which was the original question.
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:03 PM   #47
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Pesonally I can't see UHD's doing anything but good, on top of the other upsides mentioned here there's also increased abrasion resistance from say a buggered rim tape or grit inside from a trail side repair. When you put just enough air into either type to hold it's shape the UHD is noticeably harder to stuff into a tire when mounting, in my mind this should translate into less heat under low pressures as it adds more stiffness to the tire than a thin tube would.

Disclaimer; I'm not a gynachiatrist.
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Old 04-15-2013, 06:40 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by syzygy9 View Post
I must be missing something here; are you saying that if you 'puncture' a UHD tube (ie. push something like a needle all the way through) it doesn't go flat, self seals or something? I've never heard that before.
Have you ever had a nail in your car tire, but the tire has NOT gone flat? (assuming you leave the nail in there).

Put a pin in a balloon and it goes bang. Makes no difference if you pull the pin out or not. Put a nail in a tubeless car tire and chances are it won't go bang, it probably won't even go flat in less than a few weeks. The difference between the two is the car tire can keep it's shape under pressure with a hole in it and the balloon can not. Increase the pressure inside the car tire enough and it will pop just a balloon. So in VERY simple terms all to do with strength of rubber and PSI as it if it will fail.

For me in the example I used, a UHD is less lightly to fail and let air out with cactus needle in it than a normal tube. I can / have proved this to myself multiple times, as I have changed tires and there has been a cactus needle(s) in the UHD tube and I have never known until changing the tire. But I have had to fix flats on the trail with similar needles in a normal tube.

Due to the higher PSI you run in ~400lbs bike, over a 200lbs bike the UHD tube is more useful. IE, I don;t bother with UHD in my 300xcw, only put them in my 525exc for long tips, but always run them in my 950se & 990adv. Because I run a lot higher pressure in the bigger bikes.

That's my logic backed up with my real world experience.

BTW, If you pull the item that punctured your tire/tube out, it's going flat in ALL cases I listed. So it's not self sealing, more like it seals against the item that punctured it if you leave it in. Cactus needle is my most common enemy, and always braked off and leaves itself in the tire / tube. And in my experience with UHD tubes, brakes again between the tire and tube, leaving you to ride and never know / worry about it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:19 PM   #49
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Been running them in my SE for the last 15k miles with no issues. I generally run right around 32/35 on the road and go down to 25/25 offroad. No issues to date. Didn't notice any excess rubber "debris" in tire during most recent tire change.

I can see if you are running 100's of miles on pavement @ 80mph loaded on an ADV, heat might become an issue. I do not have this bike for highway cruising.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:38 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheep Shagger View Post
Have you ever had a nail in your car tire, but the tire has NOT gone flat? (assuming you leave the nail in there).

Put a pin in a balloon and it goes bang. Makes no difference if you pull the pin out or not. Put a nail in a tubeless car tire and chances are it won't go bang, it probably won't even go flat in less than a few weeks. The difference between the two is the car tire can keep it's shape under pressure with a hole in it and the balloon can not. Increase the pressure inside the car tire enough and it will pop just a balloon. So in VERY simple terms all to do with strength of rubber and PSI as it if it will fail.

For me in the example I used, a UHD is less lightly to fail and let air out with cactus needle in it than a normal tube. I can / have proved this to myself multiple times, as I have changed tires and there has been a cactus needle(s) in the UHD tube and I have never known until changing the tire. But I have had to fix flats on the trail with similar needles in a normal tube.

Due to the higher PSI you run in ~400lbs bike, over a 200lbs bike the UHD tube is more useful. IE, I don;t bother with UHD in my 300xcw, only put them in my 525exc for long tips, but always run them in my 950se & 990adv. Because I run a lot higher pressure in the bigger bikes.

That's my logic backed up with my real world experience.

BTW, If you pull the item that punctured your tire/tube out, it's going flat in ALL cases I listed. So it's not self sealing, more like it seals against the item that punctured it if you leave it in. Cactus needle is my most common enemy, and always braked off and leaves itself in the tire / tube. And in my experience with UHD tubes, brakes again between the tire and tube, leaving you to ride and never know / worry about it.
Not sure about that - tubeless definitely, I have had many tubeless (car) tyres NOT go flat with a nail or teck screw in them, I have never heard of or experienced a tubed tyre NOT go flat when punctured.

I guess I am not convinced . . . but I also don't have any real world UHD tube experience.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:04 PM   #51
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For more that 40.000km I've been using a UHD (5mm thick) front tube with absolutely NO problems.
But for the rear wheel the best solution is to go tubeless. I used Sikaflex 11FC, a type of sealant that bonds FIERCELY to aluminium.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:18 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cristi-mic View Post
For more that 40.000km I've been using a UHD (5mm thick) front tube with absolutely NO problems.
But for the rear wheel the best solution is to go tubeless. I used Sikaflex 11FC, a type of sealant that bonds FIERCELY to aluminium.
Man I would love to go tubeless front and rear, lest unsprung weight and the advantage or less flatties.

Can the Sikaflex be used on the front and rear successfully or just the rear to seal the spokes?

Next thing is where to find it in CA.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Moto Kiwis View Post
Man I would love to go tubeless front and rear, lest unsprung weight and the advantage or less flatties.

Can the Sikaflex be used on the front and rear successfully or just the rear to seal the spokes?

Next thing is where to find it in CA.
Some front rims (mine) are not suitable for a tubeless set up.

I have heard many recommendations on what type of sealer to use. The recommendation I liked the best was that it didn't really matter much what kind it was.

I went to Home Depot and picked out what looked to be the best quality silicone they had, and used that.

I am halfway through my second tire with this setup, and it is still holding air better than does my tubed front tire.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post
Some front rims (mine) are not suitable for a tubeless set up.

I have heard many recommendations on what type of sealer to use. The recommendation I liked the best was that it didn't really matter much what kind it was.

I went to Home Depot and picked out what looked to be the best quality silicone they had, and used that.

I am halfway through my second tire with this setup, and it is still holding air better than does my tubed front tire.
We have the SE with std factory rims, the PO has filled them up with 10 miles of shitty wrapped ductape which is falling apart.

So can we do it to our front and rear, I don't see any reason why not.

We are in Xela for a month doing espanol and not using Maya that much so I could easily do a rim ata time.

Did you drill your rim for a tubeless valve?

Cheers Andi
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Moto Kiwis View Post
We have the SE with std factory rims, the PO has filled them up with 10 miles of shitty wrapped ductape which is falling apart.

So can we do it to our front and rear, I don't see any reason why not.

We are in Xela for a month doing espanol and not using Maya that much so I could easily do a rim ata time.

Did you drill your rim for a tubeless valve?

Cheers Andi
Woody's Wheels is supposed to have the word on what front rims are suitable, and the reasons the others are not.

I used the original valve stem hole for the tubeless stem.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:29 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post
Woody's Wheels is supposed to have the word on what front rims are suitable, and the reasons the others are not.

I used the original valve stem hole for the tubeless stem.
Like the sounds of tubeless, as I run that way on my mountain bike. Are you just sealing up around where the spoke nipples come through the rim and adding the tubeless stem? Adding any rim strip over the nipples of any kind?
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Old 04-16-2013, 04:20 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtncrawler View Post
...
Are you just sealing up around where the spoke nipples come through the rim and adding the tubeless stem?
...
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtncrawler View Post
...
Adding any rim strip over the nipples of any kind?
I put a couple of layers of tape over everything just to protect the sealant from damage when mounting the tire. Don't forget to cut the hole in the tape for the valve stem. If you do forget, air will go in, but it won't come back out- DAMHIK. It wouldn't have been so exasperating if hadn't just moments before told myself to not forget.

The tape I used the first time was plastic, and it all came off before time to change the tire. Without that protection I got some sealant damage when taking off the tire. I just daubed some more sealant on those spots, and used duct tape for the second tire.

The sealant patch job has lasted about 2500 miles so far, so I would say the method works. I'll see whether the duct tape does any better when I change the tire again.
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:31 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by MortimerSickle View Post
Yes.


I put a couple of layers of tape over everything just to protect the sealant from damage when mounting the tire. Don't forget to cut the hole in the tape for the valve stem. If you do forget, air will go in, but it won't come back out- DAMHIK. It wouldn't have been so exasperating if hadn't just moments before told myself to not forget.

The tape I used the first time was plastic, and it all came off before time to change the tire. Without that protection I got some sealant damage when taking off the tire. I just daubed some more sealant on those spots, and used duct tape for the second tire.

The sealant patch job has lasted about 2500 miles so far, so I would say the method works. I'll see whether the duct tape does any better when I change the tire again.

..Oh well, live and learn right.

Thanks for the info MS! Now I have more options to consider - I did a search too and found a few more threads about going tubeless.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:29 PM   #59
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Front rim most lilely don't have safety beads thus making them dangerous to go tubeless.

From Woody's website:

Q: Can you make my rims tubeless?
Woody sez: We will only make wheels tubeless if they have the safety bead in them, and that can be done with a broad range of custom wheels that can currently be built.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:34 PM   #60
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Hi Andy,have a look at Ask Woody in Vendors,there are detailed instructions on converting to tubeless,takes some finding but worth it,make sure its the write up that has the using Super glue to do the initials spoke seal,lots of different ways to do it but Woody's method is cost effective time wise,others do multiple layers with long quiring times.Woody's do it for a living and have experimented to get good results.There method should appeal to you QS side,BTW loving tagging alone on the ride,you 2 are defiantly living the dream.
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