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Old 04-15-2013, 06:59 PM   #16
skathe OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
Another possibility is a recovery system for getting bikes out of bad places, like down steep embankments, mired in muddy crossings, etc.

Need a LOT of force and an anti-slip back feature, like a ratcheted winch rather than a simple rope and sheaves.

Needs to be extremely light and compact. So some strength of materials issues.

Should include an anchoring system for instances where a good anchor is not available.

Should be integrated on the bike. So some parts are multi functional...a handle that is part of a rack for instance. or use part of a crash bar as the winch frame. Things that reduce how much you have to carry to have the thing.

Possibly uses the bike for power. Like a capstan on a rear wheel.

Should be able to be used in a wide range of circumstances by a solo rider.

Should be able to recover other bikes.

Should be durable and have a long life.

Should be extensible for as many applications as possible. Moving a fallen tree out of the way for example. Or use in the shop.

Should not cost an arm and a leg. No Titanium.
This and the previous idea are both awesome, thanks for the detailed explanations...I will think more on it and talk to a professor or two...I would probably do a variable sprocket rather than a dual sprocket...I will think on it more, Thank you!

One idea that I did have was something with making the 3 way catalytic converters lighter/smaller by changing the geometry to provide more surface area. Or rigging up a uv light source that would hit a titanium dioxide coating inside the exhaust pipe which produces oxidizing agents to remove volatile organic compounds. Both of those ideas require quiet a bit of chemistry though, and apparently the professor in charge doesn't care much for emissions regulations.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:07 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by skathe View Post
This and the previous idea are both awesome, thanks for the detailed explanations...I will think more on it and talk to a professor or two...I would probably do a variable sprocket rather than a dual sprocket...I will think on it more, Thank you!

One idea that I did have was something with making the 3 way catalytic converters lighter/smaller by changing the geometry to provide more surface area. Or rigging up a uv light source that would hit a titanium dioxide coating inside the exhaust pipe which produces oxidizing agents to remove volatile organic compounds. Both of those ideas require quiet a bit of chemistry though, and apparently the professor in charge doesn't care much for emissions regulations.
Neither do riders. Those things get torn off and thrown away. now make one that improves performance or does something else nice....

I'm a mechanical designer. These are some of the things I've though about but haven't generated solutions for. Stuff like racks that turn into chairs (I REALLY like a chair in camp and my new boxes won't do) are sorta trivial.


There was some stuff in a thread about using engine heat to cook with. Mostly fluid exchange systems. Solutions have been done, and commercially to boot. I just do hot dogs in foil on the jugs (Airhead) But how about engine heat to warm the rider? As it stands the solutions are electrical. This is a challenge for older bikes with little extra electrical capacity. It also uses more fuel to make the juice while throwing away engine heat. I want my exhaust to heat my grips already. Or a hydronic vest. Difficult problems and possibly not the best for an ME to show off with, which is what you want.

As a rule, avoid ill defined problems. It's the constraints you have up front, and the way you solve for them, that makes the work shine. Also be careful of who owns the solution. Often the school does which can be an issue if it's really good and you want to market it. MEs are low on the engineering pay scale. Being an entrepreneur is the way to make the cash. If it looks like you're really nailing it, un-nail something and keep it for yourself, ideally something non-obvious.

Plaka screwed with this post 04-15-2013 at 07:13 PM
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:17 PM   #18
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Seeing the centre stand & adjustable kickstand suggestions gave me an idea, how about a triple purpose stand - LH kickstand plus RH kickstand - then have them both engage together to work as a centrestand? The upper bracket could be made in versions to bolt onto different bikes.

Centre stands are really useful for maintenance etc, but suck in many offroad situations, having a centrestand & a kickstand seems excessive on a lighter bike, integrating the lot would be cool. The fact that aftermarket stands of both types are made for bikes without them suggests that a market exists. Plus there is the added bonus of a RH kickstand - these come std on some farmbikes & until you've used a bike with one you don't realise how nice it is to have.

Good luck with the project no matter what concept you run with!
Clint
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
Seeing the centre stand & adjustable kickstand suggestions gave me an idea, how about a triple purpose stand - LH kickstand plus RH kickstand - then have them both engage together to work as a centrestand? The upper bracket could be made in versions to bolt onto different bikes.

Centre stands are really useful for maintenance etc, but suck in many offroad situations, having a centrestand & a kickstand seems excessive on a lighter bike, integrating the lot would be cool. The fact that aftermarket stands of both types are made for bikes without them suggests that a market exists. Plus there is the added bonus of a RH kickstand - these come std on some farmbikes & until you've used a bike with one you don't realise how nice it is to have.

Good luck with the project no matter what concept you run with!
Clint
That one's real interesting! Now you have me thinking how to do it.

Maybe one single leg stand in the center that can be kicked out right or left. Fold out or add on the T bar to make a centerstand.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:43 PM   #20
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My initial idea would be to have a kickstand each side with a pin locking them together for centrestand use. Either the angle or the length of of the stands would have to be adjustable so they would work in both positions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
Maybe one single leg stand in the center that can be kicked out right or left. Fold out or add on the T bar to make a centerstand.
That's a different mechanism than I had visualised but it would be worth thinking through also. The fold out line of thinking could have potential.

Cheers
Clint
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #21
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Wow. This thread has evolved from DR bbq racks to aftermarket final drive systems and novel side/centerstand ideas.


May need to stick with this one.
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:22 PM   #22
skathe OP
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The recapturing of heat from the engine is probably too complex of an issue...if it was a team project then that would be a possibility but I have to do this by myself.

I don't get any funding from the school...as long as it is my idea and my work and I'm not working under a professor then it is my intellectual property.

Another thing I have thought about is reducing lift forces...a lot of manufacturers concentrate on reducing drag but reducing lift could significantly increase the effective area of the front wheel that is in contact with the ground. This would provide better traction at high speeds...any input on that idea?

I see why the emissions control isn't appealing...I am interested in environmental engineering (possibly doing a grad program for that) so that is how I got that idea but I don't think motorcycles and the green movement cross paths very often =p
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Old 04-15-2013, 09:27 PM   #23
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Also, I like the centerstand/kickstand idea. I am going to maybe sketch some stuff out for that...if I get anything good I'll post a sketch.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:09 PM   #24
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A camp chair
With four legs that packs nearly as small as a alight monarch but is a more normal height and configuration.
Think Kermit but a quarter of the weight and half the packed size.

An adjustable windshield mount that doesn't suck.

A bike cover with an integrated fan that keeps it dry when parked outside in areas with high humidity.
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Old 04-15-2013, 10:26 PM   #25
Plaka
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Also, I like the centerstand/kickstand idea. I am going to maybe sketch some stuff out for that...if I get anything good I'll post a sketch.
OK, how about two side stands and change the angle. Each has a beefy foot for soft ground and the foot is pivoted so it can assume two different angles to the stand. Make the pivot sloppy to avoid problems in sand.

Stands pivot to the rear and are fairly long.

Each has a spring that goes over center, holding the stand both up and making it flip down when you kick it. Standard stuff.

The stands have a right angle on the pivot end and the pivot tube is angled so they splay outwards when used as side stands.

However the pivots are on a rotating plate that has two positions. Locks with a pin. In one position the legs splay outward, in the other they drop strait down (in a plane parallel to the wheels).


Side stand use on either side is as usual.

For center stand you deploy one side stand, get off and pivot the plate on the other side and flip the stand to the ground. Lock the plate. The spring is now pulling the stand down.

Then go to the side on the side stand, Tip the bike up vertical, fold the leg, pull that pin, pivot the plate and flip the stand down, replace pin.

Then with a foot on the near side pick the bike up onto the near center stand leg. Rock the bike towards you so the spring on the far side flips that leg into position. Then rock the bike onto both legs. Legs will be angled forwards and are over center so they don't fold.

If the legs have a short cross tube welded on just above the foot, you can fit a cross tube/bar that sticks out both sides to make it rock solid. Or you could fit the tube when you drop the legs (but they may be landing in back of the rear tire.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:25 AM   #26
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Two sidestands - yes!

Now why didn't I think of that?

Old bikes -Vincent for one - had two side stands.

They didn't connect to form a center stand, but you could put them both down, then lower a rear stand IIRC, and lift the bike off the ground.

I may just have to make up a right hand side stand for my bike, and make up a custom bracket for it. Then it could lean either way, at least.

Hmmmmmmm.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:22 AM   #27
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I think there is a way to do it with less steps...like having kickstands on both sides that are pretty much how they usually are. Then there could be a bracket that when pushed down it pulls the side stands together. So you would put one side stand down, get off the bike, lean the bike upright and push a small pedal/extrusion that would pull the other side stand down and would latch onto both side stands in order to create a sturdy center stand.

There would just need to be some mechanism that when you rocked the bike back or forward onto the center stand it would extend more to become taller.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:32 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Plaka View Post
OK, how about two side stands and change the angle. Each has a beefy foot for soft ground and the foot is pivoted so it can assume two different angles to the stand. Make the pivot sloppy to avoid problems in sand.

Stands pivot to the rear and are fairly long.

Each has a spring that goes over center, holding the stand both up and making it flip down when you kick it. Standard stuff.

The stands have a right angle on the pivot end and the pivot tube is angled so they splay outwards when used as side stands.

However the pivots are on a rotating plate that has two positions. Locks with a pin. In one position the legs splay outward, in the other they drop strait down (in a plane parallel to the wheels).
.
This is turning out to be a fun brainstorming session along a very similar line of thought to the above, have normal sidestands each side but these are on either end of an shaft which is fixed in sidestand mode. Then what is needed is a simple way to lock the sidestand pivots & unlock the shaft, ideally with just one knob or lever doing everything from one side. Then both the stand legs would swing down vertically. The pivoting feet would be a key part of making this work nicely too

A challenge would be making a nice simple lock/unlock mechanism that can ideally be operated with a booted foot, is compact & is damage & dirt resistant given its position under the bike. Something going through the centre of the shaft would be my first thought.

For extra points make it so when in centrestand mode so it can be switched over to lift the front wheel off the ground rather than the back, have the legs extend further forward somehow.

Cheers
Clint
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:35 AM   #29
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From a marketing standpoint a two speed tear hub would be easier to make available as a bolt on cross platform product than any Venezuelans. Even of you come up with a cool innovative stand idea that only needs a mount system specific to each bike out will still involve an engineered solution fit each bike with specific fabricated parts. A two speed hub might only need different shims put spacers to be adapted to each bike.

Also with a stand, chair, put track you already have other products on the market and even of your design of superior the the price point will some what be set by the existing products. A product that doesn't exist in the market place won't have that problem.

Don't get me wing I like a good center stand or a well designed rack, my comments are meant as a possible easy for you to stand out from the crowd. Good luck what ever direction you go in.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:55 AM   #30
Plaka
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Originally Posted by clintnz View Post
This is turning out to be a fun brainstorming session along a very similar line of thought to the above, have normal sidestands each side but these are on either end of an shaft which is fixed in sidestand mode. Then what is needed is a simple way to lock the sidestand pivots & unlock the shaft, ideally with just one knob or lever doing everything from one side. Then both the stand legs would swing down vertically. The pivoting feet would be a key part of making this work nicely too

A challenge would be making a nice simple lock/unlock mechanism that can ideally be operated with a booted foot, is compact & is damage & dirt resistant given its position under the bike. Something going through the centre of the shaft would be my first thought.

For extra points make it so when in centrestand mode so it can be switched over to lift the front wheel off the ground rather than the back, have the legs extend further forward somehow.

Cheers
Clint
The way to play that would be to use the sidestands themselves as the lock. So you have a pivoting shaft running in one set of bushings. On each end there is a bushing for the side stand at an angle that splays the side stands. When the side stands are up they are parallel to the frame and if you pivot the shaft they descend vertically. As each side stand begins to move to side stand position, it locks to the shaft. because the other side stand remains unlocked you don't notice. But deploy one a small amount (perhaps have a detent) and then the other the same amount, they are both locked to the shaft and then can only move vertically on the shaft pivots.
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