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Old 04-14-2013, 06:47 AM   #1
Bronco638 OP
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GPSmap 60Cx - Skips Waypoints?

I have searched the web and haven't found anything that really addresses this. I was wondering if anyone else has had this experience;

As noted in the Subject line, I have a 60Cx with the most recent software upgrades (as verified by My Garmin).

I am using (getting familiar with) BaseCamp.

I have created a route (auto-route) around my neighborhood. It's about .7 of a mile so I can easily walk it. I have added 9 way points to the route and have verified, under the Way Point References tab, that the way point is in the List and in the Route.

I send the route to the unit using BaseCamp and verify that the route has successfully transferred with way points.

I'll then shut the unit off and go outside. I turn the unit back on and wait while it locks onto the satellites. Then, I'll select my route from the Routes Main Menu option and then select Navigate. It recalculates and then will send me north to the first way point, after that onto the second, however once I pass the second way point, it will skip the third and send me towards the fourth. ??? I'll also get directions to the fifth and sixth but nothing for the last three. ???

Also, if I press the Find button and put the cursor on the Way Points option and then hit the Menu button (without entering the Way Points menu option), I see "Use Auto/Default Ordering". What is that for? I cannot find this in any of the 60Cx literature I have.

TIA, Dave.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:06 PM   #2
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How close together are the waypoints? When you get within a certain distance of a waypoint the gps switches to the next waypment. Maybe if the points are too close together, it will skip them both at once?
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarrettRB
How close together are the waypoints? When you get within a certain distance of a waypoint the gps switches to the next waypment. Maybe if the points are too close together, it will skip them both at once?
I thought of that (and am not discounting your explanation). But, they are outside of the little circle that surrounds the arrowhead indicator of the GPS. They're probably about an 1/8th of a mile apart.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:59 AM   #4
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After a chat with Garmin, they are aware that this is happening. It seems to be an issue with Base Camp and the way it transfers routes and way points to the unit. Base Camp is supposed to automatically check for updates (if/when you boot the computer and it connects to the internet) on launch. You should be prompted to download the update(s) when Garmin releases it/them.

Previously, Garmin acknowledged that Base Camp is not meant to work with the 60 Series but if you, like me, purchased a new map set (I recently bought City Navigator North America - Lower 49), it will not work with Map Quest.

So, 60 Series owners are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Maybe it's time for a new Montana.......
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:56 PM   #5
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How about Mapsource? No longer being updated but may be an option if it will work with the mapsets you wish to use. Plays nicely with the 60's - 76's.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:00 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 250senuf View Post
How about Mapsource? No longer being updated but may be an option if it will work with the mapsets you wish to use. Plays nicely with the 60's - 76's.
I thought of that and asked Garmin. It would seem that the new City Navigator North America does not play well with Map Source. My new map set is on an SD card and Map Source will not recognize the map set, on the SD card (even when I have the SD card in a USB adapter). Thanks for the thought, though.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post
I thought of that and asked Garmin. It would seem that the new City Navigator North America does not play well with Map Source. My new map set is on an SD card and Map Source will not recognize the map set, on the SD card (even when I have the SD card in a USB adapter). Thanks for the thought, though.
MapSource always required the mapsets to physically be loaded on the PC. You are right it doesn't pick them up from an SD card or the GPS like basecamp does.

What about loading it as a direct route and letting the GPS calculate the route? If you have enough points, it should follow the order you specify with the roads you placed the waypoints on.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:52 PM   #8
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I don't know for sure, but I'm skeptical the problem has anything to do with MapSource or Basecamp. With the 60, all you do when you transfer a route is transfer the via points and all routing is done on the 60 when the route is activated. I don't see how MS or BC would likely influence this. You can check this pretty easily by buildilng the route on the GPS itself. If you build a route on the GPS that is the same as the one on the PC, my bet is that you'll have the same problem.

Another problem is that since MS/BC is doing one routing on the computer and the GPS is doing another on the unit, you're not guaranteed that they generated routes will be identical, especially if you don't make sure your routing preferences are similar between the computer and the GPS. I've had no end of squirrerly behaviour using routing preferences and avoids - if you want routing fidelity between the computer and the GPS, you should keep things simple and not fiddle with these preferences. Keep things at their defaults. Also "Faster" vs. "Shorter" preference will cause variations in routing.

Another issue is that later versions of the 60 have a known problem when it does a route recalc in the middle of the route. It should sequence to the closest route segment or waypoint, but it instead will sometimes route you back to the very 1st waypoint in the route or directly to the destination. I very consciously avoid recalcs while I'm navigating and always turn auto-recalc off.

My guess is that you're into the noise with waypoints so close together, especially if you have the "lock on roads" option on. The GPS will skip waypoints if it thinks you've transitioned from the defined route onto a segment beyond the current waypoint.

I'd confirm that your routing preferences are consistent, then set up some longer routes that don't double back or anything - I bet it will behave more normally.

As an aside, I think Garmin is now consistently saying that BaseCamp is the preferred mapping application on the PC side. All MapSource development ceased a couple years ago.

- Mark
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLghtning
MapSource always required the mapsets to physically be loaded on the PC. You are right it doesn't pick them up from an SD card or the GPS like basecamp does.
What's interesting is that Base Camp won't pick up City Navigator NA if the SD card is still in the unit. I have to remove the SD card from the unit and put it into a USB adapter before Base Camp will recognize it. BC will pick up on my old map set (City Select) though. The first Garmin rep I spoke with confirmed that Base Camp does not interface well with the 60 Series units.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLghtning
What about loading it as a direct route and letting the GPS calculate the route? If you have enough points, it should follow the order you specify with the roads you placed the waypoints on.
This is something I hadn't considered but the routes I am creating are pretty specific. I would prefer not to let the unit calculate the route. I want to go where I want to go - so to speak.
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Old 04-19-2013, 06:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post
What's interesting is that Base Camp won't pick up City Navigator NA if the SD card is still in the unit. I have to remove the SD card from the unit and put it into a USB adapter before Base Camp will recognize it. BC will pick up on my old map set (City Select) though. The first Garmin rep I spoke with confirmed that Base Camp does not interface well with the 60 Series units.
I have a 60 series, but have yet to try basecamp. I'm too familiar with MapSource to give it up yet. I guess if I ever get a Montana, I won't have a choice.

Quote:
This is something I hadn't considered but the routes I am creating are pretty specific. I would prefer not to let the unit calculate the route. I want to go where I want to go - so to speak.
I know what you are saying, but you know the 60 series GPS's is one of those that even when you load a route from MapSource and have the corresponding maps on the PC that match the GPS, it still recalculates the routes basically ignoring the actual route you loaded. I never navigate from the 60 by routes because of this. I use tracks only or use routes on my 276/376/478.

Even using a direct route, if you use enough "strategic" waypoints or via points, you can pretty much force it to go the route you want. You just have to make sure you mark any roads that it might have a choice. The best way I found to accomplish this is either a waypoint directly in the middle of a road or 2 at either end. That pretty much forces it to take the roads you want.
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Old 04-19-2013, 07:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
I don't know for sure, but I'm skeptical the problem has anything to do with MapSource or Basecamp. With the 60, all you do when you transfer a route is transfer the via points and all routing is done on the 60 when the route is activated. I don't see how MS or BC would likely influence this. You can check this pretty easily by building the route on the GPS itself. If you build a route on the GPS that is the same as the one on the PC, my bet is that you'll have the same problem.
The issue seems to be Base Camp only. I am not having the issue with Map Source. If I could use my new map set with MS, I'd be all set. Having messed with route files in the past, I do know there is more to them than meets the eye. If you have any familiarity with XML (Extensible Markup Language), you'll know there's the potential for lots of data to be contained within those route files. The Garmin rep stated this was a known issue with BC and they were working on a resolution. I have no reason to doubt him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
Another problem is that since MS/BC is doing one routing on the computer and the GPS is doing another on the unit, you're not guaranteed that they generated routes will be identical, especially if you don't make sure your routing preferences are similar between the computer and the GPS. I've had no end of squirrerly behavior using routing preferences and avoids - if you want routing fidelity between the computer and the GPS, you should keep things simple and not fiddle with these preferences. Keep things at their defaults. Also "Faster" vs. "Shorter" preference will cause variations in routing.
I have checked the preferences to ensure that the unit and BC are identical. However, it won't hurt to run thru the procedure once again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
Another issue is that later versions of the 60 have a known problem when it does a route recalc in the middle of the route. It should sequence to the closest route segment or waypoint, but it instead will sometimes route you back to the very 1st waypoint in the route or directly to the destination. I very consciously avoid recalcs while I'm navigating and always turn auto-recalc off.
I have never experienced this but had heard/read about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
My guess is that you're into the noise with waypoints so close together, especially if you have the "lock on roads" option on. The GPS will skip waypoints if it thinks you've transitioned from the defined route onto a segment beyond the current waypoint.
I was thinking the same thing. I may need to try a bigger route or use my neighborhood route with significantly less way points (so they're farther apart).
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
I'd confirm that your routing preferences are consistent, then set up some longer routes that don't double back or anything - I bet it will behave more normally.
That's a good idea and will try that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn
As an aside, I think Garmin is now consistently saying that BaseCamp is the preferred mapping application on the PC side. All MapSource development ceased a couple years ago.
That has been confirmed by Garmin, yes.
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Old 04-19-2013, 08:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post
The issue seems to be Base Camp only. I am not having the issue with Map Source. If I could use my new map set with MS, I'd be all set. Having messed with route files in the past, I do know there is more to them than meets the eye. If you have any familiarity with XML (Extensible Markup Language), you'll know there's the potential for lots of data to be contained within those route files. The Garmin rep stated this was a known issue with BC and they were working on a resolution. I have no reason to doubt him.
You're right that there is the potential to transfer all sorts of extra stuff in the route from the PC to the GPS, but since the 60 is a "always recalc route at activation" GPS, I'm skeptical that the 60 does much with any of this extra info beyond the via points. But as you work thought this, I'm certainly interested in what you learn.

It was painful, but I'm now on BaseCamp exclusively which is good as I'm mostly converted to a Mac. BC has some very good features, but it also has real head-scratching UI and a few bugs that are extremely frustrating to work around. I hope Garmin has made progress on this.... I haven't used the program lately. I love my 60, but honestly, I think some of the new applications on tablets and phones make the whole Garmin mapping ecosystem seem like a stone axe.

- Mark
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:00 PM   #13
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I'm with you on the "stone axe" thing Mark. I also am starting to think the 60 Series was some sort of interim step to bigger/better things. They seem to have quirks (like the auto-calc thing) that models before and after don't have. There are times when I wish I still had my GPS V.

I have read a lot of threads about how to "fool" the 60Cx into re-calculating a route so that it does exactly what you want it to do. I just wish I had known about this before I had purchased it. I probably would have reconsidered. I was hoping to tinker with the bikes tomorrow but the forecast doesn't look so hot. Maybe I'll tinker with the GPS instead.
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Old 04-19-2013, 02:56 PM   #14
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Hang with the 60 - it isn't perfect, but its a heck of a lot of GPS in a very small size. The receiver and battery life are outstanding and once you master the interface, it will do things that many bigger/fancier models won't.

- Mark
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:22 AM   #15
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Just an update, I deleted the route and way points from the 60 as well as Base Camp. I then recreated the route (again, by choosing a start point to my house's north and an end point to my house''s south) and added five way points, recalculating the auto-route afterwards. The 60 picked up on the first four way points but skipped the last one (even though it was visible). The last way point was pretty close to a change of direction (intersection) and the end point. I'll keep at it.
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