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Old 04-16-2013, 12:00 AM   #46
chevmekanik
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Just gotta love all you conspiracy theorists, you ever think that it is the crappy lawyers and civil rights left wingers that are just slowing down the court systems? You gotta know that all the haters here obviously have a few tickets under their belts!
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:47 PM   #47
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Fact: He was tasered to death

Fact: he was unarmed, and not a threat, just a confused man pushed to his breaking point.

Fact: The RCMP officers tried to cover up the severity of the incident, and fine details...until the video surfaced

Fact: excessive force was used

Fact: his dying words, in screams for help translate to "Help! Get the Police, Help" - he didn't know these guys were police - he thought they were a mafioso squad of thugs

Fact: The airport staff and RCMP thought he spoke russian. If you watch the video, before the police went in, someone off to the side approaches the RCMP and says "I speak polish, I can help". The RCMP Gesture for this person to back up.

Fact: The RCMP killed this man

Opinion: The RCMP Murdered this man
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Old 04-17-2013, 07:24 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGreenBooger View Post
Fact: He was tasered to death

Fact: he was unarmed, and not a threat, just a confused man pushed to his breaking point.

Fact: The RCMP officers tried to cover up the severity of the incident, and fine details...until the video surfaced

Fact: excessive force was used

Fact: his dying words, in screams for help translate to "Help! Get the Police, Help" - he didn't know these guys were police - he thought they were a mafioso squad of thugs

Fact: The airport staff and RCMP thought he spoke russian. If you watch the video, before the police went in, someone off to the side approaches the RCMP and says "I speak polish, I can help". The RCMP Gesture for this person to back up.

Fact: The RCMP killed this man

Opinion: The RCMP Murdered this man
FACT: I agree with everything you've said!
Lyle
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:38 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGreenBooger View Post
Fact: He was tasered to death

Fact: he was unarmed, and not a threat, just a confused man pushed to his breaking point.

Fact: The RCMP officers tried to cover up the severity of the incident, and fine details...until the video surfaced

Fact: excessive force was used

Fact: his dying words, in screams for help translate to "Help! Get the Police, Help" - he didn't know these guys were police - he thought they were a mafioso squad of thugs

Fact: The airport staff and RCMP thought he spoke russian. If you watch the video, before the police went in, someone off to the side approaches the RCMP and says "I speak polish, I can help". The RCMP Gesture for this person to back up.

Fact: The RCMP killed this man

Opinion: The RCMP Murdered this man
Pretty much sums it up, four trained guys look at an unarmed man for mere seconds then kill him. Then he goes on to kill another person, yay team.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:54 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by drmacaulay View Post
the single most important issue about this topic, as i see it, is law enforcement using a weapon on a person as a show of force, and to comply with an order, rather than for self defense. (yes the guy had a stampler in hand..... Don't even try to imply that this case is based on self defense.)

mental illness is another significant issue with this case.

Language barriers.

Failing to comply with an order by law enforcement.

10 hrs in holding.

But to use a weapon on someone for any reason other than for self defense is criminal. A straight up asssult, no matter if you are police or not.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fishenough View Post
Agreed! But I also ask the question, as someone who has visited many airport and customs officers over 30 years; How do you think officers act towards a travelers aggressive behavior from Eastern Europe and through out all of Asia? I've never visited Africa, and only once toured South America; but would ask the same question about Mexico and central American countries.

Which brings me to one of the reasons why I'm happy to return to Canada: I like to think we don't have to worry about back room justice. And that all should be accountable for there actions,

guess not
In the first place, you are damned unlikely to be left wandering around for 10 hours before somebody took notice. I have hit quite a few airports in some out of the way places, like Siftikar for example and within minutes of appearing to have a problem, somebody who spoke English would help me out and make sure I got where I had to be!
We North Americans are such dorks about language it is fucking embarrassing! As another example, Sheremetyvo in Moscow has cameras setup in the baggage area so people waiting can see if their person has got at least that far. And I am pretty sure they can talk to an officer who will round up the lost lamb if necessary.
I was picking up my son in Calgary one time so went to the airline desk to make sure he had made his flight, they couldn't even tell me that because of privacy regulations. Seems like a crock to me.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:29 PM   #52
dwayne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
At this point in time, I think you guys have missed a glaring point:

It's been how long since this guy died, and now the coroner is issuing this statement?

No political bullshit going on here, nope. The only reason for such a determination to be withheld for so long is because someone in power is using it for their own gain.

That's the smoking gun on this one. Any locals have insight? Somebody running for election looking to use this to taint their opposition?

The other side of this is that the coroner is so incompetent that he should be fired. But it's BC. So, job for life.

A corners ruling of homicide is very different than a court ruling the same. It does not imply blame or guilt. It is very common for the determination in an inquest to take years.

I think in this case it is actually a fairly moot point, and there is noting to be gained or lost unless the role and results of the inquest are misunderstood or manipulated.

Having said that I strongly feel that the actions of the 4 members of the RCMP were deplorable, and their (pathetic) attempt at a coverup unconscionable. As a Canadian I have become deeply embarrassed by the stories coming out of the RCMP, especially "E" division.
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dwayne screwed with this post 04-22-2013 at 03:37 PM
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:53 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkhrt81 View Post
In the first place, you are damned unlikely to be left wandering around for 10 hours before somebody took notice. I have hit quite a few airports in some out of the way places, like Siftikar for example and within minutes of appearing to have a problem, somebody who spoke English would help me out and make sure I got where I had to be!
We North Americans are such dorks about language it is fucking embarrassing! As another example, Sheremetyvo in Moscow has cameras setup in the baggage area so people waiting can see if their person has got at least that far. And I am pretty sure they can talk to an officer who will round up the lost lamb if necessary.
I was picking up my son in Calgary one time so went to the airline desk to make sure he had made his flight, they couldn't even tell me that because of privacy regulations. Seems like a crock to me.
Mostly I was questioning other foreign countries reaction to an extremely upset traveler that shows a little aggression. Chinese airports come to mind, when I've witnessed one incident where following an agreement a very large group of airport personal, some armed, quickly surrounded the person and escorted then out of sight. I can also think of several youtube videos showing travels getting overly upset, and being knocked around be staff or such. Most recent was a traveler whom argued about taking a helium balloon on the Bangkok subway, and in response took a few good hits from a subway staffer.

This tasering incident at YVR is completely unacceptable. Most travelers would never except that in a Canadian airport of course.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:58 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishenough View Post
Mostly I was questioning other foreign countries reaction to an extremely upset traveler that shows a little aggression. Chinese airports come to mind, when I've witnessed one incident where following an agreement a very large group of airport personal, some armed, quickly surrounded the person and escorted then out of sight. I can also think of several youtube videos showing travels getting overly upset, and being knocked around be staff or such. Most recent was a traveler whom argued about taking a helium balloon on the Bangkok subway, and in response took a few good hits from a subway staffer.
There's that, yeah. RCMP were aware that a large, sweating, wild eyed dude was swinging furniture around and blocking the door just before they showed up. If I was in an airport in a foreign country, didn't speak the language and behaving that way the last thing I'd do when four armed men in uniform showed up was to ignore them and start walking away from them. I can understand wanting to subdue him before he picked up another table/chair, especially given that he ignored the authority in front of him. I can understand wanting to use a taser instead of a baton, pepper spray, or grappling with him.

I'm more upset by the discrepancies in the testimony between the officers, that their stories didn't match the video, and THAT NONE OF THEM CALLED FOR AN AMBULANCE OR FIRST RESPONDED while the guy died in front of them. With that many guys one of them should have been able to call for an EMT or given him CPR even while he was cuffed on the ground. But they did squat.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:28 AM   #55
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Eek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commuter Boy View Post
If I was in an airport in a foreign country, didn't speak the language and behaving that way the last thing I'd do when four armed men in uniform showed up was to ignore them and start walking away from them.
Yes, that is the point I was trying to make. Reading local news in Asia you often see examples that 3 certain countries consider a bullet far cheaper, and an acceptable option, to costly legal process and jails.

Once as a teen student I did that paper on what I like about Canada, and an important thing at the time was accountability of any person put in a position of trust or responsibility to the safety and well being of others.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:42 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by rainycoastguy View Post
I'm a Canadian, and the worst border to cross is the one coming home - always.
I have crossed Borders hundreds of times, I had a few difficult crossings when I was younger - mother's car, 16 years old with pals on a ski trip, normal stuff that you try to learn from .

i.e. The rules say you can bring back one turkey of any size. I have seen people argue because they have been caught with "two small turkeys"



I still get random searches both ways once a year.I had the MIBI test once - the treadmill with the radioactive isotopes injected into you.

I then crossed the border to get some MC parts. I set off every alarm and was taken inside for a strip search and exam, I was laughing with the US Guards within minutes. It is just stuff and next time i will get a note from the radiologist after the test.


Travelling overseas having some of the language helps. My wife has the gift of languages and along with English and can converse in Italian, French, Spanish, Swahili and Khmer


I always have my purchases totalled to the penny and all the receipts attached. This confirms that you are organized and less likely to be lying. Saying you have $50 bucks worth of stuff at the border is like telling a cop you drank a "couple of beers" at dinner at a spot check. The BS sensor meter jumps

Get a Nexus Card. Tell the truth at the border and don't do stuff that is illegal or stupid.

A tip for travellers always book your airline ticket in exactly the same name that appears on your passport. If your name is John William Smith don't book your flight as John Smith.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:57 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGreenBooger View Post
Fact: He was tasered to death

Fact: he was unarmed, and not a threat, just a confused man pushed to his breaking point.

Fact: The RCMP officers tried to cover up the severity of the incident, and fine details...until the video surfaced

Fact: excessive force was used

Fact: his dying words, in screams for help translate to "Help! Get the Police, Help" - he didn't know these guys were police - he thought they were a mafioso squad of thugs

Fact: The airport staff and RCMP thought he spoke russian. If you watch the video, before the police went in, someone off to the side approaches the RCMP and says "I speak polish, I can help". The RCMP Gesture for this person to back up.

Fact: The RCMP killed this man

Opinion: The RCMP Murdered this man
Well said - the RCMP is also as political a body as there is in this country and protects itself as one through the same methods

Quote:
Originally Posted by triplenickel View Post
Pretty much sums it up, four trained guys look at an unarmed man for mere seconds then kill him. Then he goes on to kill another person, yay team.
Bingo -
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:53 PM   #58
chevmekanik
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The REAL facts are, the guy required tazing

He wasn't murdered - he died from his own actions

Do STUPID things, Stupid comes up and bites you.

Darwin winner # 1

Cops mishandled the situation after initial tazing.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:01 PM   #59
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This happened in an INTERNATIONAL airport. Our airport.

Millions pass through every year, and some poor shmuck loses it, and bang !

The guy was a bit light in the loafers, and agrivated ( chain smoker as I understand). Total over reaction, and a dissmissable offence for the police. Just jump him if you have to. You are BIG enough. Or buy him a saamich and a smoke/ fresh air.

This is a stain on YVR, Canada, and the RCMP.

As I understand it, things have improved with greeters, pastors etc. so this hopefully will not be repeated.

Don 't get me going on Monty though ... That kid was taken out three blocks from where I type this. Any update on that issue ?? Maybe this whole thing was inevitable from the get-go.

Anyway, IT'S SPRING IN VANCOUVER !
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:54 PM   #60
skysailor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevmekanik View Post
The REAL facts are, the guy required tazing

He wasn't murdered - he died from his own actions

Do STUPID things, Stupid comes up and bites you.

Darwin winner # 1

Cops mishandled the situation after initial tazing.
Are you fucking serious? Give your head a shake. He "required tazing"?? He bloody well WAS murdered! They killed him. He was UNARMED and FOUR cops should be doing the Tennessee bird walk out the fucking door! How's the ESL course going there chevmekanik? He was stressed, confused and didn't speak English....and he "required tazing"?

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