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Old 04-12-2013, 05:20 PM   #241
Plaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Woodman View Post
/snip I'm trying to determine what, if anything needs to be done to the transmission.

/snip
Nothing. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

This is not a place for the uninitiated to be fooling around.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:53 PM   #242
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Yep, something's definitely not right - put the cover back on but problem persists. Logically, I should be able to shift through all 4 gears by manually spinning the input shaft on the bench. This is getting interesting. Will let you know what I find out.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:22 AM   #243
Plaka
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Originally Posted by Tin Woodman View Post
Yep, something's definitely not right - put the cover back on but problem persists. Logically, I should be able to shift through all 4 gears by manually spinning the input shaft on the bench. This is getting interesting. Will let you know what I find out.
How to convert a 4 speed into a 3 speed. Hmmm...might be threadworthy.
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:08 AM   #244
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You need to turn the output shaft to get them to change gears.
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:41 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by bmwrench View Post
You need to turn the output shaft to get them to change gears.
.........and the input shaft at the same time no less.
In other words, you need three hands.
In my experience what usually happens is that the shift doesn't 'complete' until you turn both shafts after moving the shift lever.
Another way to do is to introduce drag to either input or output shaft while you're spinning the other. This simulates what happens in real life and will allow the tranny to shift.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:23 AM   #246
Plaka
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Originally Posted by Kai Ju View Post
.........and the input shaft at the same time no less.
In other words, you need three hands.
In my experience what usually happens is that the shift doesn't 'complete' until you turn both shafts after moving the shift lever.
Another way to do is to introduce drag to either input or output shaft while you're spinning the other. This simulates what happens in real life and will allow the tranny to shift.
Shaft drag = rag draped over shaft with a weight vice gripped to it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:59 AM   #247
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Shaft drag = rag draped over shaft with a weight vice gripped to it.
I've used old bungee cords before.
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:16 AM   #248
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I've used old bungee cords before.
Yes. I just wanted to get a vice grip in somewhere. The Rusty One is big on them.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:59 PM   #249
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Been scanning the other threads. . .

Some of us seem a bit testy today! I'm no exception but before I proceed, let me assure you I don't want anything - simply making a couple of observations. In order -

1. I can now speak with more conviction about pawls, forks, shims, end play, camplates and dogs.
2. I have not messed with any of these things.
3. I now see why most of you do not mess with these things.
4. Good lighting, bungee and three hands are your friends (thank you Kai Ju).
5. I am not considering turning this into a cafe racer.

That is all.



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Old 04-13-2013, 07:32 PM   #250
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Dang. :)

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Old 04-13-2013, 08:33 PM   #251
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5. I am not considering turning this into a cafe racer.
Thank you.


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Old 04-18-2013, 09:57 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwrench View Post
You need to turn the output shaft to get them to change gears.
Thanks Bmwrench. Very helpful. I determined I couldn't find neutral and that 3rd and 4th gears were binding. Brought it to my local guru who bench tested it and told me, "Something is causing binding in 3rd and 4th gears and whatever it is, it's preventing it from finding neutral.' He told me the bearings seem OK. Brought it back to my shop, then did extensive reading of Ausherman, Snowbum, Buchanan and of course, Anton's sites. It was Buchanan's excellent account that convinced me to take the next step so I marked the forks, heated the case and removed the gear cluster and forks.



Bearings are good, dogs slide nicely, gears spin smoothly. I'm betting this tranny saw extensive service work 30 years ago but saw little use prior to my purchase. Lots of abuse leading to service work. Here's a clue - kick starter retaining pin massively worn probably due to bike being in poor state of maintenance, flat battery, etc. -



Although kickstart shaft is pristine with no burrs - must be one of many new parts -



Spent time analyzing how shift mechanism works. Interesting to simulate camplate working the forks through all four gears. This is neutral as was confirmed by testing neutral switch with cover on -



If nothing else, had an opportunity to install new input shaft seal (duplex chain sprocket makes the ideal drift) -



I realize you all recommend farming this work out to experts but I am a curious being and this was a great opportunity to learn. At this point, I'm thinking the problem was caused by misaligned forks. More to come. . .
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:25 PM   #253
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The number of people that do 5 speeds is small. The number that do 4 speeds is even smaller. Not many articles but I remember Matt Parkhouse did a series on the 4 speed in ON not too long ago.

I don't know if we can access Owners News articles on the Web but you might find hard copies. I think it was a 3 or 4 part series on the 4 speed.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:48 PM   #254
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The number of people that do 5 speeds is small. The number that do 4 speeds is even smaller. Not many articles but I remember Matt Parkhouse did a series on the 4 speed in ON not too long ago.

I don't know if we can access Owners News articles on the Web but you might find hard copies. I think it was a 3 or 4 part series on the 4 speed.
Matt still does some bike work. Not what he used to. He maintains the 4 speeds are a lot stronger than the 5 speeds.

One of the main causes of wear to the kickstart cotter is letting it get loose. Check the lever to see how ovaled out the hole is. You can shim the hole and simply replace the cotter.

I believe you can simply turn the shift dogs around to account for wear. Matt did this to mine when it was popping out of first, and replaced some bearings.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:24 AM   #255
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Dang. You turnt that tranny into as pile o'parts. Now ya dunnit.

Heavy kickstart use... See that pin/shaft pressed into the read cover that the kickstart gear rides on? It is prone to loosening with use and can migrate into the case. Cure is to center drill and tap that shaft (5 or 6mm thread) and bolt a large flat/fender washer on the backside/outside. Don't think I have a pic of that, let me dig...

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