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Old 04-19-2013, 11:08 PM   #12511
Thunderhart8
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Originally Posted by backwoodsKLR View Post
I'm trying to find the article. i thought it was very informative and very fitting to your predicament, but can't find it now. I swear I read it last night... been having a lot of changes in the Matrix lately... I think I'm losing what is left of my mind. Maybe I dreamed the article... I did have a nightmare about an ex girlfriend last night
Ha ha darn matrix all those ones and zeros....maybe this will help. Incoming nerd joke in 3...2...01001000 01101001 01110100 01110011 0100000 01110011 01100101 01101100 01100110
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:10 PM   #12512
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Thanks for the input guys I will take all your insights into consideration for the final decision.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:20 PM   #12513
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I need a few opinions please. Let me explain a situation and see what your opinion is:

Guy riding motorcycle on I-55 between Old Agency and Madison northbound. Road is closed to one lane. Rider drives around 7-8 cars on side shoulder then gets back in his lane. a Yates Construction (folks doing the work on the bridges) truck which was behind this rider apparently calls the police. There are police parked in the left lane every 1/4 miles with lights on to keep it down to one lane. There are about 8 but the first wasn't until after this rider was back in his proper lane.

Now, the rider sees about half way through one officer get out and he suspects it is to wave him down. He looks to the right and acts as if he doesn't notice. Later, just before the Madison exit, another does the same and the rider again, doesn't notice. This wasn't an obvious wave him over. Just staring at him, trying to make eye contact so he could wave him down.

This guy now drives to the Gluckstadt exit without being in pursuit and once off the exit is greeted by two police cars with lights on. He pulls over and is nice and gives all info needed. He is given a ticket for reckless driving and told that an officer saw him ride on the shoulder around the cars.

Ok, in my opinion, the only person to witness this was the rider breaking the law was the Yates guy. Do the police have the right to ticket without witnessing the law being broken? If the Yates trucks have video, this guy is screwed. The cops can't have any video of it and didn't see anything but may very well lie and say they did because they believe the Yates guy.

What do you think?
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:52 PM   #12514
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Originally Posted by Kingsized View Post
I need a few opinions please. Let me explain a situation and see what your opinion is:

Guy riding motorcycle on I-55 between Old Agency and Madison northbound. Road is closed to one lane. Rider drives around 7-8 cars on side shoulder then gets back in his lane. a Yates Construction (folks doing the work on the bridges) truck which was behind this rider apparently calls the police. There are police parked in the left lane every 1/4 miles with lights on to keep it down to one lane. There are about 8 but the first wasn't until after this rider was back in his proper lane.

Now, the rider sees about half way through one officer get out and he suspects it is to wave him down. He looks to the right and acts as if he doesn't notice. Later, just before the Madison exit, another does the same and the rider again, doesn't notice. This wasn't an obvious wave him over. Just staring at him, trying to make eye contact so he could wave him down.

This guy now drives to the Gluckstadt exit without being in pursuit and once off the exit is greeted by two police cars with lights on. He pulls over and is nice and gives all info needed. He is given a ticket for reckless driving and told that an officer saw him ride on the shoulder around the cars.

Ok, in my opinion, the only person to witness this was the rider breaking the law was the Yates guy. Do the police have the right to ticket without witnessing the law being broken? If the Yates trucks have video, this guy is screwed. The cops can't have any video of it and didn't see anything but may very well lie and say they did because they believe the Yates guy.

What do you think?
"Innocent until proven guilty"

How much was the ticket??
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:57 PM   #12515
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Originally Posted by stewarrd View Post
"Innocent until proven guilty"

How much was the ticket??
Don't know. This event happened today and court is May 13th.

So what if he goes in to fight it and says hands down he didn't do it and then an unknown video shows he did. Worse case would be added court cost?
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:05 PM   #12516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsized View Post
I need a few opinions please. Let me explain a situation and see what your opinion is:

Guy riding motorcycle on I-55 between Old Agency and Madison northbound. Road is closed to one lane. Rider drives around 7-8 cars on side shoulder then gets back in his lane. a Yates Construction (folks doing the work on the bridges) truck which was behind this rider apparently calls the police. There are police parked in the left lane every 1/4 miles with lights on to keep it down to one lane. There are about 8 but the first wasn't until after this rider was back in his proper lane.

Now, the rider sees about half way through one officer get out and he suspects it is to wave him down. He looks to the right and acts as if he doesn't notice. Later, just before the Madison exit, another does the same and the rider again, doesn't notice. This wasn't an obvious wave him over. Just staring at him, trying to make eye contact so he could wave him down.

This guy now drives to the Gluckstadt exit without being in pursuit and once off the exit is greeted by two police cars with lights on. He pulls over and is nice and gives all info needed. He is given a ticket for reckless driving and told that an officer saw him ride on the shoulder around the cars.

Ok, in my opinion, the only person to witness this was the rider breaking the law was the Yates guy. Do the police have the right to ticket without witnessing the law being broken? If the Yates trucks have video, this guy is screwed. The cops can't have any video of it and didn't see anything but may very well lie and say they did because they believe the Yates guy.

What do you think?
Disclaimer: The following information is based on my experience as an LEO from several years ago and may have changed.

In order for a ticket to be valid the violation must be witnessed by the officer writing the ticket or by another officer. The officer that witnessed the violation should be listed on the ticket and the ticket should be from the jurisdiction in which the violation occurred. You didn't specify whether it was MHP, City, or County that issued the ticket. If he goes to court and fights the ticket then the officer that "witnessed" the violation will have to be there and testify under oath as to what he saw. Reckless driving seems like an extreme ticket for the offense though unless the rider was driving in an otherwise erratic manner. I would just call the court and see if I could get it reduced to improper lane use and pay it if I were you, I mean the rider!
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #12517
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It was a Madison PD who write the ticket in Gluckstadt while speaking over his radio to another Madison PD who supposedly witnessed it. He is 97% sure it couldn't have been witnessed by a officer but he is sure that the PD would have no reason to think the Yates guy was lying and acted on that report.

There is only one name on the ticket and that is the officer who pulled him over in Gluckstadt. All the same jurisdiction as I understand.

I like the improper lane change idea. Would that have to be the officers decision or could someone at the court house make that decision? I have the feeling that the officer wouldn't be willing to lower the charge. I think this guy offended them by not noticing that they wanted him to pull over and treated it as a flee situation.

This occured at a speed no more than 20 MPH. There was nothing reckless about it. In my opinion of course.
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:26 PM   #12518
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Originally Posted by Kingsized View Post
It was a Madison PD who write the ticket in Gluckstadt while speaking over his radio to another Madison PD who supposedly witnessed it. He is 97% sure it couldn't have been witnessed by a officer but he is sure that the PD would have no reason to think the Yates guy was lying and acted on that report.

There is only one name on the ticket and that is the officer who pulled him over in Gluckstadt. All the same jurisdiction as I understand.

I like the improper lane change idea. Would that have to be the officers decision or could someone at the court house make that decision? I have the feeling that the officer wouldn't be willing to lower the charge. I think this guy offended them by not noticing that they wanted him to pull over and treated it as a flee situation.

This occured at a speed no more than 20 MPH. There was nothing reckless about it. In my opinion of course.
It's up to the judge. I'm sure it pissed the officer off when the rider failed to stop and thats when it went from a "hey don't do that talk" to a "I'm pissed off so I'm gonna fuck you ticket". Reckless driving was probably over reaching on the part of the officer, but, if there were road construction workers present, and he was in a marked construction zone, when the offense occurred he might can make it stick. Again I would call the court house and see if he can plea to a "improper lane use" ticket. That is the proper ticket you should get for passing on the shoulder. If he has to go to court, deny it. Force the officer to perjure himself or admit he didn't see it. If there is video then he has to pay the fine and court costs. They aren't gonna press perjury charges for a traffic ticket.

Edit: All he has to do is call the circuit clerk and see of they will reduce the charge if he pleads guilty. Happens all the time. Judge will reduce the charge over the phone, and, he can pay with credit or debit card over the phone in most cases.

babarnette screwed with this post 04-21-2013 at 02:38 PM Reason: Clarity
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Old 04-21-2013, 02:51 PM   #12519
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Yes, I think you've got the pulse of it for sure. I think if he had thought there was a chance of a "hey, don't do that again", he's have pulled over. I don't know about him but I've never gotten pulled over and been warned. I assume it always end in a ticket. In his case, the Yates witness was right behind him so it probably pushed him into a bad decision.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:46 PM   #12520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewarrd View Post
"Innocent until proven guilty"

How much was the ticket??

Here are some examples
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:00 PM   #12521
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An officer still has to witness a violation to be able to write a ticket. I would anonymously call the yates company and ask if their trucks happen to have video (not likely I would think) that might have witnessed an "event".

I wouldn't consider fighting it until I had something to go on. You can also call in and ask to speak to the officer who wrote the ticket, and get them to explain exactly what was reckless that was witnessed, and who witnessed it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:07 PM   #12522
Kingsized
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Originally Posted by wolfy317 View Post
An officer still has to witness a violation to be able to write a ticket. I would anonymously call the yates company and ask if their trucks happen to have video (not likely I would think) that might have witnessed an "event".

I wouldn't consider fighting it until I had something to go on. You can also call in and ask to speak to the officer who wrote the ticket, and get them to explain exactly what was reckless that was witnessed, and who witnessed it.
I'll pass that along. My opinion is that while he is at fault, it's not reckless. Even if it were witnessed, it should be a much lesser charge. I agree that once he didn't acknowledge the police that requested him to pull over, the violation went to the highest they felt they could administer.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:37 PM   #12523
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Originally Posted by wolfy317 View Post
An officer still has to witness a violation to be able to write a ticket. I would anonymously call the yates company and ask if their trucks happen to have video (not likely I would think) that might have witnessed an "event".

I thought that if you are going to court over a charge you have a right to view all evidence against you prior to the court date.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:42 PM   #12524
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I thought that if you are going to court over a charge you have a right to view all evidence against you prior to the court date.
Also true.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:58 PM   #12525
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Also true.
In theory. This requires an extensive knowledge of the legal system or hiring a lawyer. You also have a right to a jury trial but how often does that happen in traffic court.
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