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Old 04-21-2013, 01:13 PM   #151
_cy_
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went through the same process ... decided weight of bike was all important. next in line was complexity of machine and parts support in remote parts of the world. since my objective was a mount that would take me RTW.

ended up with BMW R80G/S .. first of the dual sports at 368lb dry.. with 9 gal fuel about 425lb. shortly after receiving my R80G/S which had gone through a frame off restoration by Beemerguru. hated to scratch R80G/S, but it was coming anyways.

laid R80G/S down in grass, then tried to pick bike back up.... No problems .. picked R80G/S right up no sweat .. this was with about 4-5 gal fuel and no luggage.

try that with some of the 1200cc class bikes suggested .... argggghhh my back aches thinking about it


_cy_ screwed with this post 04-21-2013 at 01:19 PM
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:40 PM   #152
JustKip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post

BTW, what has been your experience with the GS:
* How long have you owned it? I'm the original owner of my '07. It'll be 6 years June 1st

* Is it as reliable as you thought it would be? I hadn't heard much about them when I bought mine, good or bad. I was instantly addicted to the odd front suspension, even with its quirky torque steer boxer engine and shaft drive...makes it slow handling by sport bike standards, but the wide bars make it easy to muscle thru even the tight stuff anyway. Reliable? Nothing has ever broke, and it only uses oil when I ride at 90mph+ for days on end.


* What about cost of ownership? I've had all my services done at the dealership. I work long hours and when I'm off it's time to play. The service intervals have changed twice since I got mine. In '11(?) when they went to the "Camhead" they went to much longer intervals on valve adjustments, and the "Wethead" is longer still. For me, I'd rather pay $500 for the major (12,000 mile) service than spend a Saturday doing it.

* Does it require frequent trips to the dealer? Once a year, as I ride about 5500-6000 miles a year and the service interval is 6K. That's an oil change and valve adjustment @ 6k and change trans, FD, and engine oil and valve adjustment @12k. The new ones go 2-3 times as far between valve adjustments and fluid changes are simple DIY projects...if you're not too lazy like me

Any other info on the GS would be appreciated. To me, the GS/GSAs are enigmas. On the one hand, they've won every adventure bike award known to man and are consistently held up as the "gold standard". On the other hand, they're notorious for their FD failures along with other reliability issues. Those two "strikes" along with other serious concerns, like high cost of ownership, lack of dealer support in my area, etc., makes the BMW a strike-out and a no-go for me.
They are NOT a dirt bike(KTM not withstanding), but you said "dirt roads", and they do that well/Very well depending on tire selection. Are they "better" than an S10? They're a little different, and like I said, I love the dive-free front end. But any differences between the GS, Super Ten, Tiger Explorer, or Stelvio will be purely subjective. You just need to ride them and decide which will be best for your money. The riding position will be similar with all of them, and so is the weight.

BTW, you can rent a GS for a day in many places. After spending a day on one, riding to other dealerships for test rides, you should have a good idea what suits you best. Cost of routine maintenance is an insignificant part of ownership and boils down to maybe few dollars a month difference between any of these bikes. Purchase price would likely be the biggest difference. If bikes were actually an investment nobody would ever buy a Ural! The only dividends paid by motorcycles are enjoyment.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:45 PM   #153
JustKip
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If you're riding alone in remote areas, this could be your biggest issue. I can pick up my loaded R12GS alone...on dry level ground. But it ain't easy, and at 57 it gets harder every year!
BTW, Gorgeous bike!
Quote:
Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post

laid R80G/S down in grass, then tried to pick bike back up.... No problems .. picked R80G/S right up no sweat .. this was with about 4-5 gal fuel and no luggage.

try that with some of the 1200cc class bikes suggested .... argggghhh my back aches thinking about it

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Old 04-21-2013, 02:51 PM   #154
_cy_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
If you're riding alone in remote areas, this could be your biggest issue. I can pick up my loaded R12GS alone...on dry level ground. But it ain't easy, and at 57 it gets harder every year!
BTW, Gorgeous bike!
thanks... hmmm .. dry level ground ... what if it was rainy/muddy going up a hilly rutted unpaved road. LOTS of those out there.

R80G/S is still a pig and heavier than KLR and DR650. but really wanted to ride an airhead RTW. otherwise logic dictated KLR or DR650 would be a better choice.

all three choices above if prepped properly can be dead reliable. unlike late model fuel injected/electronic wonders. one major/costly failure can be trip ending. check out what an ABS board costs on R1200GS

there's many documented engine failures on R800GS related to lack of knock sensor. this is with R800GS with almost no miles and remap to burn regular fuel.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:27 PM   #155
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* Does it require frequent trips to the dealer? Once a year, as I ride about 5500-6000 miles a year and the service interval is 6K. That's an oil change and valve adjustment @ 6k and change trans, FD, and engine oil and valve adjustment @12k. The new ones go 2-3 times as far between valve adjustments and fluid changes are simple DIY projects...if you're not too lazy like me

I don't know where you found this info but everything I have come across says the valve checks are still every 6k miles and that nothing maintenance interval wise has changed from 2012 to 2013. Sorry, just the facts.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:28 PM   #156
BryanCO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
If you lived where I live, you'd drive 2 hours to test ride the Yamaha and 6 hours+ for all the others.
And I certainly would make the drive.

I read through the entire thread - entertaining -- and shocking. I cannot believe that people have purchased bikes without riding them. Just wow. The last two bikes I purchased were way down on my shopping list. Rode them kind of on a whim and stopped shopping after the ride.

I think it's great that owners are passionate about their bikes but keep that filter in place. For example, one of the S10 owners who speaks very highly of the S10 has owned a bunch of bikes which don't happen to appeal to me -- chances are he is looking for something different in a bike than I am...

Like others have side, ride them and find which one speaks to you.
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:31 PM   #157
pjensen641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanCO View Post
And I certainly would make the drive.

I read through the entire thread - entertaining -- and shocking. I cannot believe that people have purchased bikes without riding them. Just wow. The last two bikes I purchased were way down on my shopping list. Rode them kind of on a whim and stopped shopping after the ride.

I think it's great that owners are passionate about their bikes but keep that filter in place. For example, one of the S10 owners who speaks very highly of the S10 has owned a bunch of bikes which don't happen to appeal to me -- chances are he is looking for something different in a bike than I am...

Like others have side, ride them and find which one speaks to you.
I agree....if you like riding...make a weekend out of heading to those dealers over a weekend. Ride the wing there and test ride the bikes. The best part is that you can immediatly compare to what your wing feels like.

I would also say that having no dirt experience might bite you when jumping to a large adv bike. It would be much better to pick up a small used dirt bike and spend a summer learning the ropes. The body positioning and so many other things are different on loose stuff than on pavement.



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Old 04-22-2013, 06:46 AM   #158
Ockrocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my3sons59 View Post
I agree with you that the S10 is looking like a serioius consideration. Question: if you were going on a 500 mile solo trip, would you tend to take the Wee or the KLE? Why?
For such a short ride I'd take......

The KLE if it was primarily dirt roads and trails, but the KLE is tar capable at 70mph even loaded with camping gear.

The Wee if it was primarily tar, but the Wee is more than capable on dirt with the right tyres [I have a Mefo Explorer on the front and a Mitas E07 on the rear].

My day rides run up to 250 miles [300-400 km]

My trips run two weeks on average and around 1,500 miles [I think I've done the maths about right- 2,400 km]

If I had to own just one bike to do it all........the KLE because it is lighter and better on the dirt, 30% tar/70% dirt while still capable of long distance touring [apart from the small fuel tank, but a Rotopax jerry can solves that].

But if I was doing more tar, like 70%/30% then the Wee would get the nod instead.

Unfortunately Kawasaki never continued the KLE500, it would be a top contender against the mid range DR650-KLR650-KTM-BMW- and so on, pack of bikes.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:42 AM   #159
GapRunr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudhopper View Post

One thing to keep in mind though when comparing weights with especially to the GS is, that BMW was very keen on having "the lightest bike". So they went to great lenght to ensure that it is on paper and essentially reflects an unridable bike in an equipment state nobody orders. The moment you put center stand, ABS, ESA or even boxes on it and pour fuel into it, that advantage evaporates.
Would you please elaborate on this? If any manufacturer lists the weight of their bike and states "fully fueled, ready to ride" what else would need to be added ? According to most third party reviews ABS is about 6 pounds, ESA might add another 2 pounds. They all have center stands as OEM so that is already included in the published wet weight.

I've got an 07 GSA with the factory center stand, non-ESA, ABS, trip computer, alarm, GPS, metal Touratech mount, extended mud guards, extra driving lights, 10.5" Happy Trail Panniers with my tool roll and rain gear and on an actual shipping scale it weighs 588 fully fueled.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:10 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanCO View Post
And I certainly would make the drive.

I read through the entire thread - entertaining -- and shocking. I cannot believe that people have purchased bikes without riding them. Just wow. The last two bikes I purchased were way down on my shopping list. Rode them kind of on a whim and stopped shopping after the ride.

I think it's great that owners are passionate about their bikes but keep that filter in place. For example, one of the S10 owners who speaks very highly of the S10 has owned a bunch of bikes which don't happen to appeal to me -- chances are he is looking for something different in a bike than I am...

Like others have side, ride them and find which one speaks to you.


Yamaha had the pre order on FJRs. You couldn't even see one. I bought strickly on the reports
of others who had tried it. Ended up with a first genereration and 2nd generation.

I did not pre order a Tenere because after 8 years of a V Strom I thought I was done with large
dual sports. Then the reports start coming in about how much the owners enjoyed the bike.

I called the dealer and asked him to let me know if one was ever on floor to see before the
pre order buyer picked it up. He had a buyer back out and I bought it on the spot. I did get to
sit on it. Now one of my all time favorite bikes.

The OP said he had to drive 6 hours to test some of the bikes. Twelve hour round trip.
So throw a hotel room in, food, gas, time and the amount of bikes suggested for him to
try and it gets a little silly.

I agree in a perfect world it would be nice if we all could have a day to test ride bikes of
interest. When it just not practical listen close to what the owners have to say.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:52 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by pluric View Post
The OP said he had to drive 6 hours to test some of the bikes. Twelve hour round trip. So throw a hotel room in, food, gas, time and the amount of bikes suggested for him to try and it gets a little silly.
That's why I suggested making it a nice weekend, maybe even a long weekend in a big city somewhere. Fly there on a Friday or even Thursday evening, take the wife, make appointments at as many of the dealers as you can to test ride most of the bikes that are interesting.

Then go and enjoy the weekend with the wife. Done. Combined something that seems to be bothering the OP to no end with a weekend in a potentially nice city that was worth traveling there just by itself ...
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:28 PM   #162
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That's why I suggested making it a nice weekend, maybe even a long weekend in a big city somewhere. Fly there on a Friday or even Thursday evening, take the wife, make appointments at as many of the dealers as you can to test ride most of the bikes that are interesting.

Then go and enjoy the weekend with the wife. Done. Combined something that seems to be bothering the OP to no end with a weekend in a potentially nice city that was worth traveling there just by itself ...
Oh there you go making sense again.

I still doubt he will be able to do any off road on any test. If I had tried the TriumphXC for a short
ride I don't think I would have been interested. After an hour in the saddle I got use to the seating
and thought "Maybe for this motor I could live with the set/peg relationship.

I also tend to be easily pleased and figure I can tweak most anything to fit if needed. Or just
buy the Tenere and be done.
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:37 PM   #163
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Oh there you go making sense again.
Ah, sorry. I wanted to stop that ...
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:01 PM   #164
BryanCO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pluric View Post


Yamaha had the pre order on FJRs. You couldn't even see one. I bought strickly on the reports
of others who had tried it. Ended up with a first genereration and 2nd generation.

I did not pre order a Tenere because after 8 years of a V Strom I thought I was done with large
dual sports. Then the reports start coming in about how much the owners enjoyed the bike.

I called the dealer and asked him to let me know if one was ever on floor to see before the
pre order buyer picked it up. He had a buyer back out and I bought it on the spot. I did get to
sit on it. Now one of my all time favorite bikes.

The OP said he had to drive 6 hours to test some of the bikes. Twelve hour round trip.
So throw a hotel room in, food, gas, time and the amount of bikes suggested for him to
try and it gets a little silly.

I agree in a perfect world it would be nice if we all could have a day to test ride bikes of
interest. When it just not practical listen close to what the owners have to say.
I'm not trying to argue, but I guess the point is that we are all different and place different priorities on different aspects of the bikes and ownership. I would wait until I was able to ride a bike before buying. It's not important to me to get one of the first bikes. It's great that yours ended up being a favorite.

Again, 12 hrs is not silly at all, nor a 'perfect world'. Geez, I'll spend 12 hours at my local dealer - only a slight exaggeration... And, in those circumstances where local dealers didn't allow test rides (generally the Japanese brands), I have been able to reach out to owners whom offered up their bikes - owners whom I had previously not met.
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Old 04-22-2013, 11:43 PM   #165
pluric
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Never took it as any type of argument. The OP made it clear that testing each suggested
bike would be hard for him. He has been very interested in owners likes and dislikes of
models they own. When the standard "Go ride it" just isn't going to work you get as good
a feel as you can from owners. Try to see through the pride of ownership hype and make
as good of a judgment call as you can.

If someone feels they flat cannot buy a bike, car, boat, bicycle or internet wife without
trying it first so be it.

If the option to try it out isn't there then the next best thing is listening to others
experience. A fifteen minute ride isn't going to let you know what your butt will feel
like 500 miles later anyway.
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