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Old 04-17-2013, 05:49 AM   #91
anotherguy
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
If you are a play bike rider, then using more than the required amount of oil wont make much difference, other than the fact your bike wont run as well as it would with the correct amount.
Do you have empirical evidence to support that? By that I mean testing w/dyno charts. You make many blanket statements and then come back with qualifications leading to a slow erosion of credibility.

And it's been my race bike for a couple decades. And playbike. I play pretty hard.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:35 AM   #92
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Do you have empirical evidence to support that? By that I mean testing w/dyno charts. You make many blanket statements and then come back with qualifications leading to a slow erosion of credibility.

And it's been my race bike for a couple decades. And playbike. I play pretty hard.
As I posted earlier if you are a playbike rider, using excessive amounts of the wrong type of 2T oil doesnt matter a great deal. But as almost all of the excess oil will find its way out of the exhaust, unless you are into lots of smoke, there is no real purpose for the added oil.

The amount of BS linked to dyno testing is very great, and running the correct amount of the right sort of 2T oil for any particular application, will always been improved performance and less need to service clogged exhausts...............If you forget the BS, then running the right oil and mix ratio, really is a win-win situation.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:21 AM   #93
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You spew many words but say so little. So now you're a trained dynamometer operator? Care to elaborate on the "BS linked to dyno testing"?

So let's say I've got good peak output but if I add fuel power goes down. My CO is good but hydrocarbons are high. What's the next step?

BTW my 465 smokes little even when cold. Oil load is only part of the equation.

So what do you ride anyway? Besides a keyboard.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:57 PM   #94
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You spew many words but say so little. So now you're a trained dynamometer operator? Care to elaborate on the "BS linked to dyno testing"?

So let's say I've got good peak output but if I add fuel power goes down. My CO is good but hydrocarbons are high. What's the next step?

BTW my 465 smokes little even when cold. Oil load is only part of the equation.

So what do you ride anyway? Besides a keyboard.

Dyno testing is certainly very helpful when it comes to setting up serious race bikes, which are properly maintained, and owned by riders who know what they are doing.

However for those who apparently are unable to grasp even very basic concepts related to engine set up and tuning, and ride play bikes which in most cases are poorly maintained, then dyno set up is to a large extent irrelevant.

In this thread much has been made of dyno testing carried out by Gordon Jennings some 40 years ago.

Today this has little relevance, other than from a historic perspective, and without exception play bike riders most of whom ride worn out old nails, would be well advised to run a lot less oil than serious competitors, which will provide cleaner pick up, increased power, and not quite so much smoke issuing from bikes being ridden at a snails pace.
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:01 PM   #95
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Today this has little relevance, other than from a historic perspective, and without exception play bike riders most of whom ride worn out old nails, would be well advised to run a lot less oil than serious competitors, which will provide cleaner pick up, increased power, and not quite so much smoke issuing from bikes being ridden at a snails pace.
I bought some Klotz Super TechniPlate to run in my old snail. Their directions for air-cooled 2-strokes say to run 20:1 to 32:1. I am going to try it at 32:1. Sounds a little better than the 20:1 specs in the Yamaha manual. What say the smokers?
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:45 PM   #96
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44:1 Amsoil HP Marine for my KDX200, chainsaw and an old-ass ski-doo. None of these machines complains Happy top ends.

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Old 04-22-2013, 08:03 PM   #97
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This thread is really delivering as I thought it would.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:23 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by craydds View Post
I bought some Klotz Super TechniPlate to run in my old snail. Their directions for air-cooled 2-strokes say to run 20:1 to 32:1. I am going to try it at 32:1. Sounds a little better than the 20:1 specs in the Yamaha manual. What say the smokers?
Why use a castor based oil in a low heat engine? In terms of oil technology the castor/synthetic oils are about 5 years out of date, and a full synthetic pre-mix only oil, will do a better job in any application other than alcohol fuel burning bikes, which require a castor based oil. If you have a play bike, try using full synthetic pre-mix only oil at 60-80:1 mix (depending on application), and I think you will be very surprised at how much better it runs.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:22 AM   #99
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Have you any reference or testing to collaborate this? Not the bean oil thing because I agree. The 60-80:1 running better not to mention any longevity testing.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:26 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
Why use a castor based oil in a low heat engine? In terms of oil technology the castor/synthetic oils are about 5 years out of date, and a full synthetic pre-mix only oil, will do a better job in any application other than alcohol fuel burning bikes, which require a castor based oil. If you have a play bike, try using full synthetic pre-mix only oil at 60-80:1 mix (depending on application), and I think you will be very surprised at how much better it runs.
I think I was influenced by the favorable reports on the castor oils, but as you state, those reports are old. The synth/castor blend (around 80/20 ??) sounded like a good compromise, but as you state, this may be outdated. I will definitely run a full synth next go-around (will use up my synth/castor, won't toss it). This is experimentation and re-learning about 2-strokes, I've ridden 4-strokes only for the last 10 years, forgotten everything I knew about 2-strokes which was very little.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:50 PM   #101
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Have you any reference or testing to collaborate this? Not the bean oil thing because I agree. The 60-80:1 running better not to mention any longevity testing.
I suggest you try running the correct fuel/oil ratio for your application, and if you feel there is no improvement return to using whatever you are currently.

Using the correct oil at the right ratio for your application, will result in improved running and increased engine life. Too much oil tends to gum piston rings, and clog exhausts, and contrary to popular belief does not extend engine life.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:56 PM   #102
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I think I was influenced by the favorable reports on the castor oils, but as you state, those reports are old. The synth/castor blend (around 80/20 ??) sounded like a good compromise, but as you state, this may be outdated. I will definitely run a full synth next go-around (will use up my synth/castor, won't toss it). This is experimentation and re-learning about 2-strokes, I've ridden 4-strokes only for the last 10 years, forgotten everything I knew about 2-strokes which was very little.
There is an awful lot of BS in circulation about 2T bikes, with much of it based on thinking which is 30 years or more out of date! In choosing a 2T oil for pre-mix bikes, make sure it states clearly on the packaging "PRE-MIX ONLY", as any 2T oil which can also be used in injector oiling systems, is not fully synthetic, and ideally should be avoided for use on pre-mix competition bikes (its thinned 20% with kerosene, so it will work in injector systems).
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #103
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I think I will stick with Blendzall @ 20to1.

Been using this ratio since my first Hodaka.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:21 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Twin-shocker View Post
In choosing a 2T oil for pre-mix bikes, make sure it states clearly on the packaging "PRE-MIX ONLY", as any 2T oil which can also be used in injector oiling systems, is not fully synthetic, and ideally should be avoided for use on pre-mix competition bikes (its thinned 20% with kerosene, so it will work in injector systems).
That, I understand clearly - NO injector oil, nor "works in BOTH injection and premix" BS. I like the Bel-Ray MC-1, http://www.belray.com/bel-ray-mc-1-r...-2t-engine-oil , says it's for old air-cooled 2T's, may give it a go next time. (but it is awfully pricey, $$$) When I got my old YZ, the externals - engine, pipe, etc. - were drenched in oil and dirt and baked-on oil/dirt. Possibly the P.O. was running a 20:1 castor mix; maybe it has preserved the motor internals.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:36 PM   #105
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I suggest you try running the correct fuel/oil ratio for your application, and if you feel there is no improvement return to using whatever you are currently.

Using the correct oil at the right ratio for your application, will result in improved running and increased engine life. Too much oil tends to gum piston rings, and clog exhausts, and contrary to popular belief does not extend engine life.
No. You made the claim now provide references. Otherwise it's simply internet bullshit.

And who said I haven't performed tests?
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